Your preference isn't their preference.

[Niel]

I think it might be time for some tough love.

People are allowed to buy diamonds that don't meet the "ps approved" specs.
People are allowed to buy VG cut diamonds.
People are allowed to value other Cs over cut.
Cut is King is an opinion, not a fact.

Our job is to educate people and help them make the best decision for them, not for us. (the collective) We understand the desire sacrifice color, clarity and carat. Why then, is it that someone makes a well informed educated decision to sacrifice cut and we jump down their throats? Or worse, make rude comments about their diamond will look like spit and that they are morons because their gia XXX is too deep!

Maybe it's time to take a look the comments we make on posts and try not to force our preferences on other people. Its best to take the time to educate someone as well as understand what the OP actually needs. This means more than just posting the "PS specs " and links to 3 whiteflash diamonds. That goes for color, clarity, cut, and carat. If someone wants a D, even if a G looks very white, let them but a D. If someone wants a clarity enhanced diamond and has gotten informed about them, let them buy that CE diamond. If someone cares about carat than anything else, let them but that small facing asscher. If someone wants a gia XXX that's 62.7% deep because they can't see the difference? By God let them have it.

Like the Kenny's of the world say, people vary. As long as they are making an informed decision, let them make their decision.

Please save the "but cut is the absolute #1 thing that makes a beautiful diamond beautiful" posts for another thread - that's not the point of this thread.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yup, is been yrs since I seen a salt & pepper stone posted on PS...

 

[PintoBean]

Since we are only as sick as our secrets...
Hello, my name is PintoBean, and I have a very good cut diamond ring.

 

[Karl_K]

While I agree that its much better to help people make an informed decision than tell them what to do.
This thread bugs me a lot. A a very very big lot.
One of those times I have a lot to say as a looooong time PSer but being in the trade I cant.
So I will just say....

Frankly if a consumer wants to say any of those thing that is their prerogative.
Someone else is free to agree or disagree in a polite fashion.

 

[Niel]

People do not disagree in a polite fashion that's the point. People are rude and abrasive to newcomers who don't understand, or later don't agree with the advise given by people on this forum.

Agree to disagree with my thread I guess.

 

[scarsmum]

I will chime in since my thread has involved some dissent. While I like the sentiment of to each their own I also absolutely appreciate the strong opinions about selecting a diamond because without those opinions I would have nothing to go on at all. Prior to posting here my only criterion for a diamond was "pretty" and "as big and white as possible". That's kind of how I came to have an extremely poorly cut EGL certified ring sitting in a vase upstairs.

Thanks to posting I now know what my options are. I can return the stone, I could have cancelled the order, I can accept the stone as it is, or I can change it. Prior to posting my only options were take it or leave it. I also would have been the poster coming on here wanting a D with no awareness that a G might look just the same. It's the kind of info that can save someone thousands; and for me it might save me spending a big chunk of our savings on a big-ass piece of glass. I think that kind of info is invaluable, and I'm really grateful to every poster on my threads. Have I sometimes felt scolded? Sure. And condescended to, but I would rather feel that way now and make an informed decision than waste more of our money and frankly end up feeling like a victim of what seems like a pretty unethical business.

I do absolutely agree that it's no ones place to judge anyone for wanting a particular quality in their diamond over another. But one of the wonderful things about this forum is that for every sniper there's someone who comes forward with a contrasting view, and overall it gives a unique opportunity to stand behind your choice.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Most people who come here for advice haven't seen a whole lot of diamonds in real life.

My 3 stone engagement ring was bought 20 years ago, from a "good" jewellers in town; they are still in business today. The diamonds are uncertified so who knows if they are "very good" or even "good" cuts. They sparkle like crazy, to my eyes, anyway. I love the ring and will never part with it.

My slight issue now is that I could replace all the stones with superideal cuts for the same price we paid all that time ago.

I think we have a bit of a duty on here to make sure people are getting value for money, not being ripped off or sold something they might regret later.

It's just that there's a way of saying it tactfully and some people find that difficult online.

 

[Austina]

Thank you for your post @Niel.

Advice is great, but trying to force your opinion on someone is entirely different, especially when it causes unnecessary upset, as has happened recently.

I've learned a lot of useful information since I've joined, but have deliberately not started a SMTB thread on my new ring, because I couldn't be bothered with the "you should've gone to" or any other 'helpful' comments because I didn't use a PS recommended vendor. I did my research on the diamond, and chose the style of setting I wanted, not what other people like or thought I should have. I'm thrilled with my ring, it's exceeded my expectations, was kept apprised of its progress, and it was delivered on the day it was promised.

 

[pyramid]

We may not be allowed to do that on Pricescope Neil. Pricescopers have been educated on the one 'C' ONLY. This site is owned by people who are focused on Cut, it is how they make their money. Pricescopers have been brainwashed in a sense to forget about the rarity of colorless, high clarity and are ENCOURAGED to go for cut by marketing size to them. In the UK size is seen as gaudy being that it stands out brightly in the way diamond would, people here are encouraged to go for rarity and that is MARKETED by color and clarity. I believe Japan is all clarity marketed as purity. Pricescope is not about letting people get what they want it is about CUT BEING BETTER only. A bit like scientology. I love very good cut and I love colorless as I was brainwashed that way before coming to Pricescope on the other side of the pond as you would say.

 

[Matata]

We may not be allowed to do that on Pricescope Neil. Pricescopers have been educated on the one 'C' ONLY. This site is owned by people who are focused on Cut, it is how they make their money. Pricescopers have been brainwashed in a sense to forget about the rarity of colorless, high clarity and are ENCOURAGED to go for cut by marketing size to them.

The prosumer guidelines which are a sticky at the top of the forum clearly state that prosumer responsibilities are to broaden a consumer's choices while respecting their final decision and that "AGS 0 Ideal cuts are not desired by all." If those providing advice follow the guidelines and remain polite, everyone should be happy.

 

[Niel]

I agree with both of you here. I think maybe you didn't realize I was skipping that step in my explanation. Yes, people should get informed. Prosumers here should advocate for someone to get their money worth - however. My point is, after you've educated people, after a point, just let help them get what they want to get at a far price. Buying a VG diamond is not inherently getting ripped off. If they are getting a fair price for it and know what they are buying, what's the problem exactly?
I'm not saying this forum should stop helping people get the most for their money. I'm saying to a lot of people- getting the most for their money often means getting something other than ags 000. If youce made your case and informed them - rather than just saying "you need diamonds in these specs buy from whiteflash"- they still decide carat is more important than ABSOLUTE TOP CUT, just be nice and help them find the best buy for THEM. That's all.

 

[Niel]

We may not be allowed to do that on Pricescope Neil. Pricescopers have been educated on the one 'C' ONLY. This site is owned by people who are focused on Cut, it is how they make their money. Pricescopers have been brainwashed in a sense to forget about the rarity of colorless, high clarity and are ENCOURAGED to go for cut by marketing size to them. In the UK size is seen as gaudy being that it stands out brightly in the way diamond would, people here are encouraged to go for rarity and that is MARKETED by color and clarity. I believe Japan is all clarity marketed as purity. Pricescope is not about letting people get what they want it is about CUT BEING BETTER only. A bit like scientology. I love very good cut and I love colorless as I was brainwashed that way before coming to Pricescope on the other side of the pond as you would say.

You are one of the people who get push back the most here and while I know it has been from me in the past, I realize your opinion is valid. I apologise for that

I agree this thread won't be popular for a lot of people here because I'm not towing the party line. That's fine. If prefer to actually help people than tow the line.

 

[Niel]

Thank you for your post @Niel.

Advice is great, but trying to force your opinion on someone is entirely different, especially when it causes unnecessary upset, as has happened recently.

I've learned a lot of useful information since I've joined, but have deliberately not started a SMTB thread on my new ring, because I couldn't be bothered with the "you should've gone to" or any other 'helpful' comments because I didn't use a PS recommended vendor. I did my research on the diamond, and chose the style of setting I wanted, not what other people like or thought I should have. I'm thrilled with my ring, it's exceeded my expectations, was kept apprised of its progress, and it was delivered on the day it was promised.

I am sorry you feel you can't share your ring becuase it doesn't fit a narrow definition of quality. I bet it's beautiful and if love to see it.

 

[whitewave]

It goes beyond diamonds too. One post I remember, a man posted the ring his GF wanted and one poster here poo pooed it, changed his ring, found a stone and was insulting to his choice. He never came back.

The poster didn't listen to him, changed his ring and ultimately caused him to leave. She clearly didn't like his and his GF ring choice and it was sad.

Why do that?

 

[Karl_K]

Yes, people should get informed. Prosumers here should advocate for someone to get their money worth - however. My point is, after you've educated people, after a point, just let help them get what they want to get at a far price. Buying a VG diamond is not inherently getting ripped off. If they are getting a fair price for it and know what they are buying, what's the problem exactly?
I'm not saying this forum should stop helping people get the most for their money. I'm saying to a lot of people- getting the most for their money often means getting something other than ags 000. If youce made your case and informed them - rather than just saying "you need diamonds in these specs buy from whiteflash"- they still decide carat is more important than ABSOLUTE TOP CUT, just be nice and help them find the best buy for THEM. That's all.

Now that I agree with 100% no 200%.
When pricescope was young there were those that thought they should be able to tell consumers how to post and what to post.
Well that did not go over well with me at all and the then owners supported my view.
So I have a negative reaction to posts telling consumers what to post even from other consumers. Hence my reaction to your post.
I am not a fan of having prosumer guidelines either.

What makes pricescope great and has kept its integrity intact is that consumers are allowed no encouraged to share, learn and teach.
It is made up of people so it will never be perfect.

It is tough at times when your invested in a person and like them to let them fly on their own. It is the right thing to do however.

 

[Niel]

Now that I agree with 100% no 200%.
When pricescope was young there were those that thought they should be able to tell consumers how to post and what to post.
Well that did not go over well with me at all and the then owners supported my view.
So I have a negative reaction to posts telling consumers what to post even from other consumers. Hence my reaction to your post.
I am not a fan of having prosumer guidelines either.

What makes pricescope great and has kept its integrity intact is that consumers are allowed no encouraged to share, learn and teach.
It is made up of people so it will never be perfect.

It is tough at times when your invested in a person and like them to let them fly on their own. It is the right thing to do however.

Karl I understand my post came off as telling people what to say. I don't mean to come off saying "you should post the way i want you to post and that's it" I'm just saying I've seen a lot of posts lately that are trying to push one narrative. I wish the posters doing that would take a step back and see if what they are saying is as helpful as they think it is.

 

[flyingpig]

I agree with the OP that we need to be more respectful.

But I disagree with some posters' comments like brainwashed and scientology. This is equally disrespectful and achieves nothing. It is ineffective.

 

[Sparkly2017]

@Niel thank you for opening this topic. What a thoughtful post!

 

[MollyMalone]

We may not be allowed to do that on Pricescope Neil. Pricescopers have been educated on the one 'C' ONLY. This site is owned by people who are focused on Cut, it is how they make their money. Pricescopers have been brainwashed in a sense to forget about the rarity of colorless, high clarity and are ENCOURAGED to go for cut by marketing size to them. In the UK size is seen as gaudy being that it stands out brightly in the way diamond would, people here are encouraged to go for rarity and that is MARKETED by color and clarity. I believe Japan is all clarity marketed as purity. Pricescope is not about letting people get what they want it is about CUT BEING BETTER only. A bit like scientology. I love very good cut and I love colorless as I was brainwashed that way before coming to Pricescope on the other side of the pond as you would say.

Hi, Pyramid

Whom do you believe to be the owners of PS & I'm also wondering why you believe focusing on cut makes money for the owners?

Also, maybe there's a typo in the 2nd sentence I bolded? I'm not understanding why pushing a/k/a "marketing" size encourages people to "go for cut".

 

[MollyMalone]

It's not in the Forum Policies page, @Austina, but it's always been my understanding that critiques or "constructive suggestions" are out-of-bounds on the SMTB pages (unless the OP expresses a desire in getting all manner of feedback). The couple of times I've seen that etiquette breached, the offender was quickly put straight.

So unless someone corrects me, I'm hoping you will post photos of the new ring that you already treasure!

 

[Matthews1127]

It's not in the Forum Policies page, @Austina, but it's always been my understanding that critiques or "constructive suggestions" are out-of-bounds on the SMTB pages (unless the OP expresses a desire in getting all manner of feedback). The couple of times I've seen that etiquette breached, the offender was quickly put straight.

So unless someone corrects me, I'm hoping you will post photos of the new ring that you already treasure!

Oh my word, YES!! Please post a thread @Austina!!!

 

[nala]

I think this applies to settings as well. Same vendors always been recommended as if they were the be-it-end-all. It is very much like a cult in terms of the fact that if one comes in wanting to learn, the newbie feels insecure in terms of knowledge. Then the newbie starts distrusting her own taste, Bc if she was so unkowledgeable before she got to ps, surely she has a lot to learn from the experts. The experts are defined as those who hav posted the most and who have been here the longest. No other credentials necessary. Lol. Anyhow, the newbie begins to trust the experts in all things diamond ring related, and well that's why smtb has so many threads of rings that all resemble each other.
I think the irony is that no matter how much certain posters push cut and certain vendors, one only needs to look at looptroupe and preloved forum to realize that some of those highly recommended vendor's settings or stones sit and sit for months. Bc at the end of the day, these highly recommended pieces only sell if they are drastically marked down. So they were never really worth more than the other ones. Like these took a bigger monetary hit when they sold than those that didn't opt for the super ideal super expensive setting.

 

[Matthews1127]

Forgive me, but, during the brief time I have spent on PS, the majority of the threads, posts, and comments have been informative, and supportive; encouraging, even!
The posts this thread is addressing seem to come from individuals who view this forum more as "social media", rather than what it was initially intended to be. There are specific areas that allow for "social media"-type conversation. SMTB is not one of them. Neither is RT.
Folks, I spent most of my time on FB & Pinterest before I discovered PS. PS is FAR from "social media", and I now spend the majority of my time on PS.
Please don't turn this unique, one of a kind online community into a social media nightmare; if I wanted to catch up on drama or read "snarky" remarks, I'd log in to FB or Twitter.
Respectfully, I was not a COMPLETE novice, when I joined PS, but I have learned VOLUMES, since joining.
An early lesson I learned was to "choose my words wisely". I am extremely articulate, but I'm extremely thankful for the "edit" option...lol!!
I believe the majority of PSers exercise poise, professionalism, and courtesy. There are some spoiled apples that compromise the experience for others.
As I have instructed my children, when dealing with bullies on the playground: disengage & move on. Never throw the first punch, but if someone makes the conscious decision to put their hands on you, you had better respond with a superior message to ensure they understand, without any reasonable doubt, that they are NEVER to put their hands on you EVER again...in the future.
Cyber bullying exists. Let's hope it's not spreading to PS; we are, for the most part, all grown-ass people, who understand the consequences of our actions.
Let's just keep it positive & peaceful!
Circulate the positive reinforcement!
Many thanks @Niel for starting such an open & sincere thread!!
CRM

 

[Dancing Fire]

Why come to PS for advise if they don't believe in cut quality? Heck, a newbie can go anywhere and buy a poorly cut stone. I don't comment on settings nor color choices, but if they posted a poorly cut stone then I'll tell them is a POS!.. before it is too late.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

It is ironic that those promote dogma have not seen many stones IRL either....cuz if they did the "cheat sheet" wouldn't get promoted so often and with such veracity. Remember, data is only data and information is not knowledge.

It is also ironic that in promoting the one size fits all approach, so many options get excluded. If PS'er are "here" to include, the opposite effect can and does occur.

That said, PS is an open forum, not prison. Take what you want....and leave the rest.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Niel]

Why come to PS for advise if they don't believe in cut quality? Heck, a newbie can go anywhere and buy a poorly cut stone. I don't comment on settings nor color choices, but if they posted a poorly cut stone then I'll tell them is a POS!.. before it is too late.

PS is very helpful in educating yourself on many things. Not just cut. Many people stumbled on this for reasons entirely unrelated to cut.

 

[marymm]

HI:

It is ironic that those promote dogma have not seen many stones IRL either....cuz if they did the "cheat sheet" wouldn't get promoted so often and with such veracity. Remember, data is only data and information is not knowledge.

It is also ironic that in promoting the one size fits all approach, so many options get excluded. If PS'er are "here" to include, the opposite effect can and does occur.

That said, PS is an open forum, not prison. Take what you want....and leave the rest.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon, the bolded sentence from your quote is incredibly insightful, not just applicable in terms of diamonds but in everything - thank you for your post.

 

[arkieb1]

It goes beyond diamonds too. One post I remember, a man posted the ring his GF wanted and one poster here poo pooed it, changed his ring, found a stone and was insulting to his choice. He never came back.

The poster didn't listen to him, changed his ring and ultimately caused him to leave. She clearly didn't like his and his GF ring choice and it was sad.

Why do that?

I've done that when I poster was posting pics of rings from an obvious scammer. I was super rude because the dude wasn't getting the point at all....

Plenty of people come here and all they want is the biggest diamond possible, they tell us she doesn't care jack about the cut quality etc and most people here tow the party line that the stone must be a top of the line perfectly cut stone when in reality the woman and the guy in many of these cases want something that is a half decent (but not a perfect cut) that is near to eye clean or eye clean that is as big facing as possible. We sell it ALL the time.

And the answer is, it's about balance, for some guys and girls that are on a quest to find the perfect stone - YES finding them a super ideal cut is doing them a favour, for others finding them something huge on a less than favourable budget that doesn't resemble a ball of frozen spit that is a half decent cut should be the aim.

I think what Niel is getting at here is that people do vary they don't actually all want perfectly cut diamonds some of them just want big cheap diamonds and are perfectly happy to end up with something in between the two. They don't want a triple ex GIA cut that is half the size of what the girl wants, yes shock horror they value size over everything else..... They want big and half decent looking on a budget, and out in the real world away from here that is enough to make them happy.

 

[ChristineRose]

I think it's worth noting that nobody NEEDS a diamond in the sense that they need new underwear or a hip replacement. It's a social expectation and people want to be part of that.

But a lot of things go into the social aspects of diamonds past cut quality, and price is probably number one for most people.

 

[whitewave]

I've done that when I poster was posting pics of rings from an obvious scammer. I was super rude because the dude wasn't getting the point at all....

Plenty of people come here and all they want is the biggest diamond possible, they tell us she doesn't care jack about the cut quality etc and most people here tow the party line that the stone must be a top of the line perfectly cut stone when in reality the woman and the guy in many of these cases want something that is a half decent (but not a perfect cut) that is near to eye clean or eye clean that is as big facing as possible. We sell it ALL the time.

And the answer is, it's about balance, for some guys and girls that are on a quest to find the perfect stone - YES finding them a super ideal cut is doing them a favour, for others finding them something huge on a less than favourable budget that doesn't resemble a ball of frozen spit that is a half decent cut should be the aim.

I think what Niel is getting at here is that people do vary they don't actually all want perfectly cut diamonds some of them just want big cheap diamonds and are perfectly happy to end up with something in between the two. They don't want a triple ex GIA cut that is half the size of what the girl wants, yes shock horror they value size over everything else..... They want big and half decent looking on a budget, and out in the real world away from here that is enough to make them happy.

It was a perfectly pretty setting from James Allen.