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your opinion on edwardian engagement eing

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Hi, I have just purchased a ring with the below spec and would like your opinion pls whilst I am still in the return period. I paid $5.5k for it, however there is no certificate, but the ring was appraised by a gemologist whom I was told by the dealer is a former GIA appraiser. Spec is below, unfortunately I keep getting an error message when I try and upload a pic, but hopefully an approx value can be given from the description? I do think its an incredibly beautiful ring, but would appreciate any advice on its value, considering the above factors. Many thanks.
Description: Primary Stone(s): Diamond Weight: .65 cts. apx. Color: I-J Clarity: VS1 Cut: European Secondary Stone(s): Diamond Weight: .90 cts. apx. T.W.-Marquis .40 cts. apx. T.W.-Euro & Single Color: I-J-Marquis / H-Euro & Single Clarity: SI1-SI2-Marquis / VS-Euro & Single Cut: Marquis, European & Single Metal: Platinumt Age: 90-100 yrs. apx. Period: Edwardian Condition: Excellent Ring Size: 6 1/2 -easily p
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
I'd also like to add this is the first time I have ever bought a diamond ring and I am about to propose to my girlfriend, so want to make sure I get the most ring for my money, any useful advice/opinions appreciated! Thanks!
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,780
Pretty ring.

No, I can't give an appropriate value based on a photo and a description but I may be able to refer you to an appraiser in your area who can help. It's not usually terribly expensive, you get documentation for insuranace as a side benefi,t and it's FAR better to do it right and talk to a pro who can actually see the merchandise than to try and guess from pictures. Where are you?
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Thanks Denver appraiser, the shop have arranged an independent appraiser, and I will be receiving the full appraisal before making the final payment on the ring. I am based in London and am buying from a shop in Florida. I have read positive things from previous customers that the store deliver good value for money and that the rings are what they say they are (following people having independent appraisals) , so am feeling more confident about the purchase. Do you think however that I should definitely arrange my own appraiser? I have bartered for a very good discount on the original price so don't want to talk myself out of them selling me the ring! :twirl: Thanks.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,780
Keep it if you love it, send it back if you don't or if it's been misrepresented. It's that simple. I suppose there's a 3rd option of sell it if you can make a buck on the deal and have the skills, time and customers to work the deal. My guess is that this isn't the issue and it doesn't apply here.

I'm a big fan of arranging for, hiring, and paying your own expert. It eliminates the conflict of interest inherent in the seller being involved with the appraisal. That doesn't make their guy wrong, and often the sellers are pretty experienced in knowing who is most capable but they have a specific objective of choosing an appraiser who is least likely to cause problems. Some problems are important, some are ill founded, some are nonsense, and the difference is a big deal (to you). For the jeweler, the best is an appraiser who reports nothing but good news. That works as long as everything is good news but it's problematic if there's an issue. That gets you into the skills and ethics of the appraiser. Given the distance from the seller, I think it's unlikely that the seller has an unacceptable relationship with the appraiser and since I don't know either party I can't really address the issue (In all honesty, I wouldn't say anything even if I DID know the players) but it's a key question.

The solution is for you to independently investigate the appraiser. If you don't think they're someone you would choose, tell the seller you want someone else. If they're someone you would pick, call them up and make sure they understand that YOU are the client and then ask whatever specific questions you have.

Original price, by the way, is completely irrelevant. They can ASK whatever they want but if they could have gotten it then we wouldn't be having this conversation. They would be laughing on the way to the bank and you would be looking for something else. They couldn't so they didn't and here we are. That's their problem, and I imagine they would have prefered to get more. OK, so what? It's not evidence of a problem that they lowered their price, but it's not evidence of a bargain either.
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Thanks so much for the advice D A, I think I will call the appraiser (mollie Harrison) as you suggest. Could you possibly advise on type of questions I should ask her, so I sound like I am at least reasonably knowledgeable? One final question, if the ring is exactly as described in the above spec, do you think the price is good, or is it not possible to say without seeing? Thanks so much in advance.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,780
I don't give advice on merchandise I haven't seen outside of some very specific circumstances but what you're asking here is exactly the sort of question you should ask of your appraiser. You're hiring a pro, you've arranged to have her look at the goods in person, and she's agreed to write a report about it. That's a far better basis than anything I can do online. What to ask? That's up to you. Is it the same item? What size and grade are the stone(s)? What is the metal? Are there any issues with the condition? Is it well made? The seller claimed it to be antique, is this credible? Can you tell who made it? When? Is it priced competitively for similar goods in the local marketplace? What about other marketplaces (I point out that you purchased in one market and the appraiser is probably most familiar with a different one)? What details will be important to document for my insurer to replace it with another of like kind and quality? What else would you like to know? Is it properly aligned with your chakra? Did it really belong to a celebrity? Ask whatever concerns you. You're hiring an expert to assist you in evaluating an expensive purchase and you're paying them for their advice. Ask whatever you want within the limits that most good appraisers charge by the hour and you want to use their time efficiently. They may not know, they may not be able to answer, or you may not like the answer they give, but it never hurts to ask.
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Just thought I'd continue to share the ongoing situation - WOW, diamond buying is stressful (I know you say not to stress DA, but it sure is hard when you're dealing with an experienced salesman!!;-)
So I am awaiting the appraisal, which I have been told should have landed with me 15 mins ago, but I'm still waiting. The seller however has said that the appraiser - when collecting the ring - stated that it was 'one of the prettiest rings she has ever seen' and now the seller is 'anxious to see the report'. He's also negotiated an extra $125 out of me - which, when I've looked back the way he cleverly worded acceptance (or not as it turned out) of the $5.5k sale price, he left himself room for slight manoeuvre as this was in-between the minimum price he said he wanted ($5.75k) and the price I offered $5.5k.
It hasn't been the clearest transaction if I'm honest as it was carried out through an online auction site, and - as I haven't received the appraisal yet - the only agreement we have on the sale has been carried out on messages, rather than me officially clicking 'buy it'. I'm pretty sure however that I would still have consumer rights though if he were to back-out of the sale as he has now officially accepted the offer in writing (unless anyone knows different?).
Another thing that I might like advice on, if anyone here has knowledge of this; I get the feeling he is going to ask me to make the payment outside of the auction site (so he can avoid their fees one imagines). I would only do this if I were to use a credit card, so it is easily traceable, but do you think that I should insist on doing it within the auction site's payment process to be absolutely sure everything is properly documented?
Advice would be appreciated!
Many Thanks
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,780
Huh?

This appraiser is in London, right? The seller shipped it from Florida to the UK without being paid? Either I'm missing something or this is a VERY trusting seller. No wonder they wanted a vote in choosing the appraiser.

Do NOT agree to a payment procedure outside of the auction site. It's unethical for them to even ask and it undermines some resonably important protections that you as a shopper have in place.

If this appraiser is the one associated with their store then they are decidedly not 'independent'. I'm not as down on this as some other folks here but I would put it much closter to the category of a detailed sales receipt than a 2nd opinion from an informed and uninvolved expert. It's not a 2nd opinion if it comes from the same people who gave the first.
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Ok, so I received the appraisal, and have now officially made my offer! phew! :twirl:

Below is the full spec. I noticed that the total diamond weight is 0.24ct less than orginally thought, however the color of the diamonds is also better, so I have decided that as it's such an exquisite ring I will just go for it! However I would be interested to know if you experts out there think the price of $5625 is a reasonable (or even good!;-) one?

One stamped platinum ladies antique diamond ring with a hand florentine finish. The ring is Circa 1910 Edwardian style containing:

- One prong set old European cut diamond measuring 5.45-5.42 x 3.55mmm (depth est.) Approximate weight 0.65ct
Clarity - VS-1
Color - H

- Two bezel set marquise shaped cut diamonds, measuring 7.15 x 3.50 x 2.21mmm (depth est). Approximate weight of 2 stones = 0.65ct
Clarity SI-1to SI-2
Color H-I

Eight prong set sigle cut diamonds, measuring 2.00-2.00 x 1.20mm (depth est). Approximate total weight of 8 stones = 0.23ct
Clarity VS-2 to SI-1
Color G-H

Eight bead set single cut diamonds, measuring 1.65 - 1.60 x 0.98mm (depth est) approximate total weight of 8 stones = 0.13ct
Clarity VS-2 to SI-1.
Color G-H

Total weight of diamonds 1.66ct
Weight of ring 4.50gm

Replacement value inc state Tax $9314.35
 

richrara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
11
Hi D A, sorry if I wasn't clear. If i'm being totally honest I attested to having already purchased the ring at first on here as it was still up on the auction site and I didn;t want anyone else seeing it and grabbing it (call me a paranoid shopper, but it has happened to me before that's all when seeking advice on an item! So I was being cautious!).

So yes, the facts are:

I am in London.

The shop is in Florida.

The appraiser is from Florida and was 'chosen' by the shop. I did however check out their credentials, which seemed very impressive (see here http://www.igsappraisal.com/about.php) and contacted them with a list of what I expected from the appraisal.

Having now received the appraisal (see above) I have officially 'bought' the ring through the auction site, but haven't paid yet. Am about to very shortly - unless some serious alarm bells start ringing after this post!

The shop didn;t, as expected, ask me to pay outside the auction site. So that is also a good sign.
 

Rhea

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,269
By shop in Flordia, do you by any chance mean Fay Cullen?

I live in London currently (GA at the time) and London partner bought my ring from Fay Cullen. Not a good experience, at all.

It's a very pretty ring. I'd recommend paying by card rather wire transfer as we did. And get it appraised by someone other than the shop you bought it from!! Keep in mind that if you're importing to the UK you'll pay around 20% VAT on your ring.
 
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