yet another demand: will you look at these #s?

[brandithib]

Hi guys! We''re still searching for a RB stone and I think I''ve found one. Tell me what you think:

price: $1,410 (I''d like to stay at or under $1500)
carat: .72
diameter: 5.89 x 5.76
color: J
clarity: SI2 (the inclusions don''t bother me)
table: 58%
depth: 59.9%
crown: 34.5
pavillion: 40.4
girdle: thin to slightly thick
polish: VG
symmetry: G

I ordered an IS image last Friday and it should be in later today (hopefully)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 8:49:58 AM
Author:brandithib
Hi guys! We're still searching for a RB stone and I think I've found one. Tell me what you think:

price: $1,410 (I'd like to stay at or under $1500)
carat: .72
diameter: 5.89 x 5.76
color: J
clarity: SI2 (the inclusions don't bother me)
table: 58%
depth: 59.9%
crown: 34.5
pavillion: 40.4
girdle: thin to slightly thick
polish: VG
symmetry: G

I ordered an IS image last Friday and it should be in later today (hopefully)

Hi Brandi

With the shallow pavilion angle it is possible the diamond will show obstruction ( darkening visibly at close scrutiny due to head shadow) but an IS image will tell us more. Have you checked if the diamond is eyeclean to your standards or not?

 

[brandithib]

thanks. yes, there are some twinning wisps but really I couldn''t notice them

 

[stone-cold11]

ditto.

 

[FB.]

Overall set of angles looks good, but I''m not overjoyed about the 40.4 pavilion angle; read the recent thread talking about "obstruction" for lots of info. Yours would appear to sit on the borderline.

The shallow overall depth of 59.9% will make the stone look larger than it''s actual weight, which is a bonus.

I don''t like to see either polish or symmetry listed only as "good" on round diamonds, although I''ll tolerate "good" symmetry (but not polish) on pears or other fancy shapes.

In fact, you can see the symmetry (or lack of) in the 5.89 - 5.76 diameter being "out-of-round". I''d expect no more than 1% difference between the measurements (about 0.06mm) but yours is over 2%, which could start to impact the performance of the stone and the various angles could be quite varied, depending on which axis you measure them (the certificate only states an average angle).

Girdle is quite variable on your stone. I prefer med-sl.thick or thin-medium, but I''m hesitant about thin-sl.thick.

Would I buy the stone?
Probably not, but since you have an IS coming later, it may turn out to be an acceptable stone.
Without an IS, I would definitely not buy the stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 9:00:47 AM
Author: brandithib
thanks. yes, there are some twinning wisps but really I couldn''t notice them

Have you seen the diamond in person?

 

[brandithib]

no, I haven''t seen it in person; only through the virtual loupe on James Allen''s site. As I mentioned, I''m not too worried about the clarity (as I''ve seen I1s and even I2s that I swooned over) I''m mostly concerned with having a decent stone within our budget.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 9:15:15 AM
Author: brandithib
no, I haven''t seen it in person; only through the virtual loupe on James Allen''s site. As I mentioned, I''m not too worried about the clarity (as I''ve seen I1s and even I2s that I swooned over) I''m mostly concerned with having a decent stone within our budget.

Ah ok. The Idealscope will tell us if obstruction is going to be an issue with this diamond, I have a feeling it is a possibility but this will let us know for sure or not as the case may be.

 

[FB.]

Date: 12/1/2009 9:00:47 AM
Author: brandithib
thanks. yes, there are some twinning wisps but really I couldn't notice them

SI2 twinning wisps are often difficult to see - being more like a hazy ribbon running through the stone - often resembling an elongated cloud. There's a good chance of being eye clean, but some people have minor concerns about the twinning wisps being weak points - like feathers.

But with that said, I have a stone with wisps and feathers as the grade setters - pic attached. The wisps are just hazy areas; more scattered than the solid lines on the inclusion plot would suggest. Despite being the grade-setters, the wisps in my stone are 100% eye clean (although not all wisps will be eye clean). It's the second-grade-setter (feather) that is borderline eye clean.
The central feather is white, but can appear black from certain angles and is eye clean to any casual observer, but because I know where and how to look for it, it can be detected as a tiny black streak as far away as about twelve inches in ideal lighting. But the "virtual facets" tend to hide a short black streak very well.

 

[brandithib]

Thanks for the info FB! Am I right to assume that twinning wisps aren''t so bad in the world of inclusions? Regarding the IS, I''ve tried to "study up" on ideal scope images but I can''t seem to read them the way you guys can. Not at all. So, I''ll have that up as soon as possible. *fingers crossed*

 

[FB.]

Date: 12/1/2009 9:26:56 AM
Author: brandithib
Thanks for the info FB! Am I right to assume that twinning wisps aren''t so bad in the world of inclusions? Regarding the IS, I''ve tried to ''study up'' on ideal scope images but I can''t seem to read them the way you guys can. Not at all. So, I''ll have that up as soon as possible. *fingers crossed*

Each type of inclusion has good and bad points. It depends which good or bad points are important to you.
Feathers and twinning wisps are usually more difficult to see, but they are inevitably a weak point in the structure of the stone. If they are large, numerous or near the girdle, they may be a breakage risk if the stone takes a lot of hard knocks during daily wear - but breakage of a stone during normal wear is very rare indeed.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 9:26:56 AM
Author: brandithib
Thanks for the info FB! Am I right to assume that twinning wisps aren''t so bad in the world of inclusions? Regarding the IS, I''ve tried to ''study up'' on ideal scope images but I can''t seem to read them the way you guys can. Not at all. So, I''ll have that up as soon as possible. *fingers crossed*

Ask for one of the gemologists to evaluate the diamond concerning the twinning wisps if the Idealscope image checks out, lets take a look at that first.

 

[brandithib]

still waiting on the idealscope BUT if that falls through, what do you think of this Whiteflash diamond? It''s smaller and "cleaner" but it''s in our price range:

.64 RB

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks good.

 

[brandithib]

okay, here is that IS image. What do you think?

 

[stone-cold11]

yap, will probably have obstruction issue.

 

[Lorelei]

Yes, definite obstruction, the IS image proves it.

 

[merri214]

Hey Everyone,

I have just begun to launch my search for useful advice from message boards like this and saw the topic of discussion. Would anyone be willing to comment on the "vitals" of a stone I am looking at that I have posted below? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.


GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
5.77 - 5.79 X 3.62mm
.74 carat
D color
SI1
Total Depth: 62.6%
Table: 56%
CA: 34.5 degrees
CH: 15.0%
PA: 41.2 degrees
PD: 44.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Med to STK
Faceted: 3.5%
Cutlet: Non
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Flour: Med Blue

 

[merri214]

Hey Everyone,

I have just begun to launch my search for useful advice from message boards like this and saw the topic of discussion. Would anyone be willing to comment on the "vitals" of a stone I am looking at that I have posted below? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
5.77 - 5.79 X 3.62mm
.74 carat
D color
SI1
Total Depth: 62.6%
Table: 56%
CA: 34.5 degrees
CH: 15.0%
PA: 41.2 degrees
PD: 44.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Med to STK
Faceted: 3.5%
Cutlet: Non
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Flour: Med Blue

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/1/2009 5:58:18 PM
Author: merri214

Hey Everyone,

I have just begun to launch my search for useful advice from message boards like this and saw the topic of discussion. Would anyone be willing to comment on the ''vitals'' of a stone I am looking at that I have posted below? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
5.77 - 5.79 X 3.62mm
.74 carat
D color
SI1
Total Depth: 62.6%
Table: 56%
CA: 34.5 degrees
CH: 15.0%
PA: 41.2 degrees
PD: 44.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Med to STK
Faceted: 3.5%
Cutlet: Non
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Flour: Med Blue

Hi Merri and welcome!

Please feel free to start your own thread and we will help you there!

 

[FB.]

Date: 12/1/2009 5:58:18 PM
Author: merri214

Hey Everyone,

I have just begun to launch my search for useful advice from message boards like this and saw the topic of discussion. Would anyone be willing to comment on the ''vitals'' of a stone I am looking at that I have posted below? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
5.77 - 5.79 X 3.62mm
.74 carat
D color
SI1
Total Depth: 62.6%
Table: 56%
CA: 34.5 degrees
CH: 15.0%
PA: 41.2 degrees
PD: 44.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Med to STK
Faceted: 3.5%
Cutlet: Non
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Flour: Med Blue

As Lorelei suggested; you''ll get more replies if you start a tread of your own, rather than get buried in the existing conversation of this one.
But to answer your question....the stone has a rather deep pavilion. More than 41.0 dregrees can start to cause the "steep/deep" phenomenon. Have a read of the "return of the steep/deep" thread to learn more about them. Total depth is excessive if it is more than 61.8%; the stone may appear slightly smaller than a true "ideal" cut.
A more generally-accepted set of angles (of which I also added an image to the steep/deep thread) would be 34.5 crown with 40.8 pavilion.