Yah or Nay - Close to purchase

[axiochris]

Hi Everyone,

I need as many responses for this potential purchase as possible. I had whiteflash pull a diamond from their virtual inventory and take all the performance images for me. if i decide not to buy this i would be on the hook for shipping the diamond back to the supplier. i would probably have to make a decision by monday. So without further adieu, here are the stats.

1.51 carat
F SI1
Cut - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Flour - None

Table% 58.0
Depth% 60.8
Crown Angle - 34.0
Pavilion Angle - 40.8

HCA score of 1.1

 

[axiochris]

ASET image

Is the 3 oclock arrow a concern? what about the green in the middle?

 

[axiochris]

Sarin report.

 

[marcy]

looks great to me

 

[yssie]

IS and ASET look good - I would worry about that table inclusion though. What does WF say? Might be worth it to have them ship it out to you to look at.

ETA: just saw your last post. If they say it's eyeclean to your specifications, looks like a nice virtual find. Note that policies may be different from those for in-house stones.



GIA report doesn't work?

 

[axiochris]

pix of actual stone. There is a feather on the table. Whiteflash has told me its eyeclean and the feather is light colored. cant see from the side either.



So what does everyone think?? I understand that this isnt a H&A diamond but i would like advice on the light performance based on the images.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dreamer_D]

It looks good to me. It is not an H&A so some asymmetry in the IS is to be expected. It has long lgfs resulting in the thinner arrows. It will mean more splintery light return, an appearance that many enjoy.

Does it qualify for WF''s upgrade and buyback policies etc? What do they say about its performance?

What is the color and clarity? The cert did not link.

 

[axiochris]

Here is the GIA report. Actually graded on my birthday.

 

[axiochris]

Yssie and Dreamer D

yes it does qualify for the upgrade policies.

What does splintery light return mean?

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks good.

 

[yssie]

axiochris-


think of the light return from a princess vs. the light return from an EC or antique cushion.

big facets translate into big virtual facets which output big, bold flashes (but fewer of them), less pinfire (small tiny flashes)
lots of small facets translate into small VFs which output lots of tiny flashes and pinfire - splintery - and less bold flash

in an RB skinny arrows translate into smaller VFs.

a larger 57facet RB will naturally have larger facets (and therefore larger VFs) than a smaller 57facet RB, so the light return from a 0.5ct and a 1.5ct will be quite different even though they're exactly the same shape.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This video illustrates the effect of lgf on light return. Your diamond should perform more like the one on the right with 80% lgf.

 

[axiochris]

link?

 

[axiochris]

thanks for everyones responses so far.

any other experts want to chime in?

 

[Andelain]

I''m not an expert, but I think you''ve found a nice one. If WF told you it''s eyeclean then you''re safe there and F color is great. I really like the way this one looks.

 

[axiochris]

was dreamer d referring to this gog video about lower half facets?

http://www.vimeo.com/4095697

Are you guys talking about the differences between 75-85 range of diamonds or between the 50s to the 85? I prefer in the range of 70-85 and frankly cant really tell the difference that much. I think most ideally cut stones have 75-85 lower half facets, right?

thanks everyone

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/24/2010 11:03:35 AM
Author: axiochris
was dreamer d referring to this gog video about lower half facets?

http://www.vimeo.com/4095697

Are you guy talking about the differences between 75-85 range of diamonds or between the 50s to the 85? I prefer in the range of 70-85 and frankly cant really tell the difference that much. I think most ideally cut stones have 75-85 lower half facets, right?

thanks everyone

Yes, thats a good video which can help show the differences and yes, most of the diamonds we see here have LGF''s of around 75- 80%. Bear in mind the visual difference can be extremely subtle and not something thats really obvious unless you have studied many diamonds and know what to look for.

 

[axiochris]

Lorelei, your thoughts on the stone?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 4/23/2010 8:20:34 PM
Author: axiochris
ASET image

Is the 3 oclock arrow a concern? what about the green in the middle?

There is a point a little below 40.8 at which the middle of the stone is reflecting light from the horizon (Green 0 - 45 degrees) rather than from the direct lighting (red 45 - 75 degrees). This is NOT a bad thing, it just is. If you use the HCA you will find that the lower pavilion angles tend to be somewhat rewarded as Garry likes shallower stones more than deep stones.

I am going to guess, guess mind you, that if you were to study a facet by facet Sarin or Helium report on this stone that four of the pavilion mains will have angles slightly below 40.8 and are thus starting to reflect the little green "pies" in the center of your stone. This is NOT a bad thing, it just is. In fact since most stones either reflect red or green in the center, this is kind of a cool thing to me since it is interesting to look at.

Please remember that the ASET is a valuable rejection tool and that stones that it does not cause you to reject are showing potential to be wonderful. This stone has potential, but it must be YOUR eyes and YOUR tastes that will dictate in the end whether or not it is the diamond for you.

Good hunting.

Wink

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/24/2010 11:17:48 AM
Author: axiochris
Lorelei, your thoughts on the stone?

It looks like it has definite potential especially as it is a virtual stone and is definitely worth consideration if you don''t want a branded h&a stone with picture perfect patterning. F colour is excellent quality, its a great size and if it is eyeclean then it could be well worth you taking a look in person to see what you think.

 

[axiochris]

Wink, thanks for gracing my thread. What you have said puts my mind at ease since it is very similar to what has been told to me by the vendor.

Again, I understand that I am not looking for an H&A diamond and dont expect absolute perfection. In regards to the green center of the ASET image, Ive seen plenty of H&A stones showing the same feature. Im fine with it.

I will most likely buy online, sight unseen. I am asking for help from the more experienced Pricescope members so I can purchase the best performing diamond by using the numbers/images. I trust the numbers/technical details behind the stones.

 

[axiochris]

Also guys, it comes down to two online diamonds from two of the trusted PS vendors.

the other one I am still considering is this one

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1272752.asp

Carat weight: 1.51
HCA Score: 1.60
Cut: Ideal
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.4%
Table: 56.0%
Crown Angle: 35
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.31*7.34*4.57

Because of the depth of 62.4 which is longer than i would like the spread of the diamond is smaller. It made me look for other options.

So based on all the info ive provided, which diamond should i pick? Does this diamond show better symmetry? Better light return?
Only the Idealscope image for the james allen stone was provided.

Oh, both these stones are virtually the same price: 11.4K
Good value??

 

[Lorelei]

Chris, I have a quick question for you, has WF said whether that stone will be eligible for an upgrade policy? If an upgrade might be a future consideration then it would be best to factor that into your decision.

 

[axiochris]

This is what WF said as far as the "package"

100% upgrade benefit with no minimum requirement, plus full image package, plus additional hearts image if you prefer, plus the Whiteflash toolkit (which i asked for)


Right now, the No minimum upgrade isnt that important for me but for the price difference between packages it makes sense to get it. It was less than 100 dollars.

That being said, im more concerned about the best performing diamond between the JA stone vs the WF stone.

 

[axiochris]

Sunday morning bump!

So which one guys and gals? JA or WF?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/25/2010 11:07:50 AM
Author: axiochris
Sunday morning bump!

So which one guys and gals? JA or WF?

I know which I would buy but I can't tell you what to do or which one YOU should buy, which one are you leaning toward?

 

[axiochris]

Right now, im leaning toward the WF one. i still have a gemologist call with JA on Tues. That could change my opinion. I have a feeling you would buy the WF one as well since im getting the upgrade policy.

I kind of feel like the JA stone has a slightly better IS image. Am i right?? I really dont like the smaller spread though.

OHHHH, and i went to see a stone in person yesterday. A friend of a friend is a jeweler. I already saw the GIA report before going. Even though it scored a 3.6 on HCA and the crown angle is 36, i went to check it out anyways.

It looked really really good. Im happy because i think i can expect better performance from either the JA or WF stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/25/2010 11:43:15 AM
Author: axiochris
Right now, im leaning toward the WF one. i still have a gemologist call with JA on Tues. That could change my opinion. I have a feeling you would buy the WF one as well since im getting the upgrade policy.

I kind of feel like the JA stone has a slightly better IS image. Am i right?? I really dont like the smaller spread though.

OHHHH, and i went to see a stone in person yesterday. A friend of a friend is a jeweler. I already saw the GIA report before going. Even though it scored a 3.6 on HCA and the crown angle is 36, i went to check it out anyways.

It looked really really good. Im happy because i think i can expect better performance from either the JA or WF stone.

The IS images are comparable, you are right I prefer the WF diamond as I prefer the numbers and the policies that go with it, but the JA diamond could definitely be an option.

The diamond you saw has a decent cut but the angle combo is rather steep and there is a possibility of light leakage, but no way to tell without seeing it, but it is possible either of the diamonds you are considering might look better as far as can be told on paper anyway.

 

[axiochris]

thanks Lorelei,

Your response helps put me at ease. I also agree that I think the numbers of the WF diamond seem better.

In regards to the diamond that I saw in person over the weekend, it might have some light leakage, but i definitely could not tell with my own eyes. The diamond looked great to my newb eyes.

Also, on the diamond plot there are lots of twinning wisp in the diamond but we could not see it with the naked eye, which was a good thing. Are twinning wisps better than a feather?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2010 11:59:22 AM
Author: axiochris
thanks Lorelei,

Your response helps put me at ease. I also agree that I think the numbers of the WF diamond seem better.

In regards to the diamond that I saw in person over the weekend, it might have some light leakage, but i definitely could not tell with my own eyes. The diamond looked great to my newb eyes.

Also, on the diamond plot there are lots of twinning wisp in the diamond but we could not see it with the naked eye, which was a good thing. Are twinning wisps better than a feather?

You are welcome, very glad to help!

Its difficult to compare twinning wisps to feathers as they are both different types of inclusion, I take it you mean the twinning wisps in the diamond you saw over the weekend? If so I wouldn't worry too much about the feather, if WF says it isn't an issue then thats fine, if you would like to have an independant expert check it for you, take the stone to an independant appraiser during the return period to give you peace of mind.