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WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamond??

cinnamonstick

cinnamonstick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
572
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.28-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-386902

Hello, I took the recommendations of many PS'ers and contacted a vender --first person I contacted (this is just the link to show the diamond for help). One that was suggested by PS'ers. They found the above diamond for me in seconds and guided me to look at the video on JA. His price was a bit less cost for cash. It fits my needs from what I can tell on the GIA. The gentleman is going to have the diamond in hand here in a bit and give it his critical eye for being "eye-clean" and how "yellow" it appears face up. He stated based on the cuts (?) it should appear a whiter "J" closer to the I range. Fits my budget on the higher end-less money would be better however I don't want total junk bc my pockets are shallower than I wish. The gentleman shared it has a slight spread. May look face up like a 2 1/2? Triple excellent GIA. Hearts/arrow. Super cut ideal. I have it on hold. The gentleman will be sending me a few color scope pics (forget the name). I will post them for review.

I am very ignorant when it comes to diamonds other than reading a basic GIA.Not seeing in person also scares me but I do feel this (online) is the way to go. The GIA shows this diamond has a needle across the face. He shared "I wont see it" with the naked eye. He said he is picky and if it is not an impressive diamond to him, he wont suggest I buy it.

HELP??? My specs were about about a 2.0, I or J (whiter J), GIA triple excellent, eye clean. $16k ish.


This is a big deal for me. Will take all of my teaching summer money to afford that I have saved over the past 7 years (no joke). Any help would be SO APPRECIATED!!!! Thank you!
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Hi,

Good diamond.
Great specs.
Looks eye clean, the inclusions are not that obvious.
The yellow tint seems quite pronounced, though I'm not sure how much the video represent how it really looks irl colour-wise.
Seems like you've seen the diamond irl and like it, which is good.
Have you reserved the diamond?

What kind of setting are you considering? (Plat/WG/YG? Open/close gallery?)
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Hello and thank you D! need input since I am going to pull the trigger unless there are flags on this diamond from the PS posters (on looks or color). I have not seen this in person. Only the video on JA as you have viewed. The gentleman who helped me on the phone had the diamond in his hand when I called back 30 mins ago. He said it presents whiter than most "J"s. That is my main concern at this point-the color (as long as eye clear). Scares me a bit you found the video to show yellower tone (I see it also).


Set in white gold setting with lots of metal--thick band with a wrap of gold (no side stones). Four prong setting for the diamond in platinum. I could do white gold prongs if that would help for some reason with the J color. Plat was advised since stronger than 14k white. May also have it sit lower than my current 1.1 is sitting in the setting, I am a lefty. Therefore, will have more white gold around it. Good or bad, IDK. Will ask the jeweler when time to set the diamond his thoughts.


Price is fair? Lower $16k. 30 day return and one of the vendors mentioned here on PS that is reputable. I suspect the person would be honest with the shade of "J". I did share I saw two "J"s local yesterday in 2cts. One looked definitely yellower which was strange bc it had faint fluorescents. The other "J" was perfectly fine (looked like my "I"). Again, vendor stated to when I raised my concerns with a J is "this "J" is whiter than others". Hard bc the two "J"s I saw at Merivs were different colors. One more yellow. Didn't like that at all. Shared this with the vendor-need a whiter "J" or I if needs to be.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Sorry, yes on reserve. Offered to put a hold with $. Said he will hold it for me, no need, no pressure therefore no $ to hold.
He is going to send me more data later today /tomorrow. HCA maybe (?). This is where I am a bit lost and NO IDEA how to read whatever he is sending me. BUT from running a few online calculators the diamond seems to have great reflection and well cut. As long as eye-clean I am ok with the SI1. No problem there.

"J" worries me a tad only bc there was such a difference in the two "J" 2cts I saw in person at a local store yesterday. One was 100% perfect IMO (looked like my "I")--no issues. Other J was yellow. Side by side I saw a clear difference in the "J" (both GIA) Again, shared with the vendor didn't want a yellow "J" (I would just pay more for an I if that is the case) and he stated this is a "whiter J than most" -- I will have to quiz him more on the color. I would hate to get in to a return situation.

It is one of the top 5 vendors I see here on PS. But yes, video does show yellow...
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

IF you have seen some I/J GIA/AGS stones and like them then you should be in the clear.
The videos, while useful, some time cannot really reflect on what the diamond will look like colour-wise.
They do their best, but there are lighting conditions etc. that can skew the result.
Plus if the setting will cover the side view (where it'll show more tint) then you'd be fine.
If you have made it clear re your colour preference I'd take the vendor's words. Most people will try to avoid returns whenever possible, including the vendor.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Did you happen to check the stones out that I pointed out in your other thread? Not to steer you away from this one, as it looks to be well cut (and a good SI1) but it is a little more expensive than some other options. The videos aren't always an accurate representation of color, but I have certainly seen some J's on JA that have less tint than this one. If you are dealing with a top notch PS vendor though, I would take their word for it as they can see the stone in person. As always though, I recommend having an independent appraiser check it out during your return period as they have zero skin in the game and aren't selling you anything.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Thank you again D. I have seen SOME J's...not a lot....mostly have viewed I's. Just worry a tad since the 2ct J's yesterday looked so different in color and both were GIA. Guess there is a range in each level.

Looks eye clean? The fella shared it looks eye clear and it is stunning (based on cut I would assume so). Color is only sticking point of worry at this moment. I can return but REALLY want to avoid that at all costs. Again, assuming it is a "high J", that should be fine and I plan to set it lower in the ring vs high up tiffany setting. That should help the side view.


-Do I dicker with the price or is the "cash price" with the online vendors what it is? I didn't dicker. He just said this is the cash price. It was less than the JA one but not sure if the JA was cash or CC price. Not sure how all of this works.....

Thank you for your thoughts on the diamond....this is a big deal for me and I am nearly blind in this process of online purchasing. MUCH prefer in person but I don't want to pay (cant afford) the extra money to have a third party involved (brick store).

:) Hope a few more chime in on the diamond...
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Pfunk-the Enchanted diamonds? I did and yes they were cheaper. how is there rep? They are not a vendor that is recommended on PS often from the fast searches I did. Worries me being so naive in this process.

I did call back the vendor I contacted who showed me the JA one. I asked about the 2.4 since I figured he would be able to get that one also ---just as he acquired the 2.28 that was not in his hand at the time of my call. was steered away? I wish there was a PM on this web page....
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

"Triple excellent GIA. Hearts/arrow. Super cut ideal."

Yes, triple excellent - but not ideal. Only AGS grades "ideal".

It's also not a hearts and arrows stone, otherwise it would be branded as such - and an additional premium.

It looks like a great stone though, and HCA score is 1.0

I have a "J" coloured diamond and it faces up very white, I love it. I think you'll be fine.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Is JA going to provide an ASET image of the stone?
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

thank you Two little birds (cute name)

Vendor did say hearts and arrows for sure (I wrote it down). Bummer. Well, still triple E GIA which is good. Price wise I hope this is fair at $16,300. I love the size but don't want to overpay for what it is. Few other were suggested that cost less, better clarity....

IE

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R242-ARLYC3


this was also suggested. $1500 less but only VG on two categories (but excellent cut). I have no idea who important all of these ratings are and it is getting confusing :(.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.20-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-587879
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

I don't know the rules of the game as far as mentioning who I am working with??? What are the "rules" as far as respect not to po anyone in the business off??? it was not JA, the first vendor I called on my list of four recommended on PS took the ball and ran. He found the diamond and guided me to view the video on JA which was SUPER helpful. He then ordered it to be sent to him--it was, he has it in hand and on hold.


The gentleman at the vender is going to provide some sort of photos for me (HCA is one--but I think I was able to do that calculation online with a calculator). I will ask for the ASET. He mentioned a few acronyms but I am unfamiliar. I will share what is provided to me.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

minus all of the confusion....here are the pictures that were just sent to me. I asked again about the "J" color and he said it is a white J. I trust. NO CLUE how to read these but there is a heart and arrow he sent me (first and second pic). So is it heart and arrow then? He said this is a stunning diamond, crazy not to buy (sure they all say that, part of sales). I don't want to OVERPAY. That is my main concern other than buying junk (this is not junky based on what I know and the feedback from you all)

Here you go! Hearts and arrows pics, ASET and Ideal score
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

ASET and Ideal scope
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

That is not a true hearts and arrows diamond but it still looks nice. If you aren't set on a precision cut H&A diamond, it's going to be fine. My main concern would be that they are charging a bit more by calling it a Hearts and Arrows, when it really isn't.

ASET and IS look good. Those reflect light performance.

I thought the tint was fairly yellow in the 360 video, but it's tough to tell how that translates in real life.

It does seem like you are a bit rushed. Is that just from excitement? You mentioned you have saved for 7 years so I wouldn't be rushing into buying the first option that pops up. But that's just me. I would want to do my homework, look at what the other vendors have and compare. You'll feel much better and not second guess yourself. It seems like this is a big purchase and I think you want to feel really good about it.

That being said, If you're really interested you can purchase and return if you don't like it. You may have to pay for return shipping if you do return it.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

HCA
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

OK, breathe :lol:
(JDDN seems to have noticed as well :) )

The terms H&A is thrown loosely.
The 2.28 you showed may not be H&A in its strictest sense, but it won't make much difference given other considerations which seem to be more important to you.

In some cases VG for polish will be fine.
Ask the vendor if he knows what causes the 2.2 one to only have VG in terms of symmetry and if & how this will impact how it looks.
Can be wide variations in angles, misalignment, etc.
I would go w/ the 2.28 though if you can afford that.
ASET & IS images look great.
How long will they hold the diamond at that price for you?

The diamond that pfunk suggested, on the other hand, is really worth considering too.
I've never personally bought from ED (still wondering about their "proprietary" cut score system) but have heard about satisfied customers.
And their prices are generally good.
I don't see giving them a call will hurt.
This sounds like an important purchase to you after all, good to consider all options.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Thank you JDNN. So this diamond is a bit overpriced? my husband is feeling maybe that is what is being said in a way?
There is no rush, I told the vendor that. And really, there is not. This diamond is $16,300. I have no idea if that is a great price or fair (or stinky). I just know it is WAY better than brick/mortar but with that said, I want to be a smart shopper. The size is wonderful, but not if it is super yellow. He restated it is a white "J". He said to post off of this and that PS'ers would confirm this is a great diamond. Other than the color, I think most of you are saying it is a good looking diamond. Color will only be known I guess based on his input (honesty) and what I see when it arrives. He does keep saying hearts and arrows. That bothers me if this is not a true heart/arrow bc it makes me worry about trust (??). The vendor is one that has been suggested on PS so it should be reputable (?)
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

D- thank you for clarifying a bit with the hearts arrow. NO RUSH (I am type "A" in general). Since the diamond is on hold I am trying to gather what I can in this short period of time. For $1500 more I would rather the 2.28 with three excellent for some reason. Maybe bc the vendor said it faces up more like a 2.5? Not sure how accurate that is either but if it is a bit face heavy I wouldn't mind that :) (I think I just made up a term).

Not sure about ED. I have not heard the name tossed around a lot on PS (but my focus has been on prices more so since I thought I would buy local). I just don't know if I should stay with a vendor that is more popular on PS since I do not know a lot. I called, it is available in Hong Kong. I pay in full for the diamond then it is shipped to ED. Reviewed by a gemologist then sent to me. He is going to contact Hong Kong to see it is a strong J or weak J. Cant put on hold. Only can pay in full first.

Is it ok to say who I am working with or is that not PC in the world of PS/Diamond shopping?
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

cinnamonstick|1439237130|3913061 said:
... He does keep saying hearts and arrows. That bothers me if this is not a true heart/arrow bc it makes me worry about trust (??). The vendor is one that has been suggested on PS so it should be reputable (?)
Click to expand...

"Hearts" and "arrows" are evident on most well cut modern round brilliants as a side effect of the pattern of cutting. The precision of those arrows (how well the arrowheads line up with the shaft, uniformity of shape, etc) and hearts (are there clefts in the hearts, are the "v's" uniform and even on both sides and the same as all the others, etc) is where "hearts and arrows" in the truest for of the term comes into play. Does the stone above display H&A? Yes. Are they perfect? No. Will you notice in real life? Likely not. For more information, a place I like to read is niceice.com.

As for color, in my opinion only, a J is still quite lovely. I have everything from a D to a J, and my J is an emerald cut, which naturally shows more body color than a rb. I rather like it - gives it some character. If you are concerned, I would a) have the stone shipped to you loose for inspection first, and b) have it set in a setting that has more "closed" sides.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Helpful ECF8503 -I get it! I understand the heart/arrow better. Loose term... I would want to be sure there is not a premium price on this diamond. I am assuming not.

$16,300 good for the 2.28 @ IDJ? or overpriced?

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R242-ARLYC3

this one is still in stock. Larger and better grade. Person said is 75% lower gert? Makes more broad of a sparkle vs pinpoint. Sounds good. It is in Hong Kong. Not sure I like the idea of paying first before anybody has seen it in person in the US. Fella from ED is calling HK to see if it is a weak J or strong. Is this a trustworthy process? Worries me a bit it is not in hand, nor can be in hand, at ED before I pay.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

You can absolutely say who you are working with.

There are very few "true Hearts and Arrows" diamonds. You will pay a premium for a true H&A stone. Lots of vendors call certain stones "hearts and arrows" but it's a squishy term as round brilliants will display some kind of hearts and arrows pattern. So really, it's all a matter of importance to you. Do you want a precision cut diamond? If yes, then you can start looking at an ACA by WF or Brian Gavin Diamonds. They will be more expensive. You can find GIA H&A stones too but that may require a bit more leg work. If it's not important to you, then don't get caught up in the H&A images too much. Stones that aren't H&A can still be gorgeous and sparkly and stunning. My concern was how much of a premium is JA putting on the stone labeling it Hearts and Arrows? An extra $100? Well, okay maybe. An extra $1000, well maybe not so okay.

The dimensions are in line with a 2.2 carat stone, not a 2.5 carat, so not sure what he means. Still doesn't mean it's a no-go.

I think it could be a really nice stone, but only you will be able to tell if the tint is acceptable or not.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

thanks again JDDN --I really do appreciate everyone input. it is VERY HELPFUL! Idea of hearts and arrows is so appealing but my pockets are not that deep. A beautiful 3ex GIA is fine. Size is important to me and $16k is pushing it.

IDJ is who I am working with.. I am concerned he said the diamond 2.28 presents as a 2.5. Believe me, 2.28 is big enough. Wasn't a need to say that is not accurate. I did Google the MM average. I read an average 2.25 diamond has the MM of 8.5 (which is what this one is). Not clue why he said this would present as a 2.5. I took notes and know that he did make that statement. Humm.....trust issue?

*** I asked IDJ just now if there is a premium on the diamond. I don't think I like the answer.

Me: "May I ask if there is a premium on this diamond being H&A or is not H&A by the strict terms (just pretty with the H &A design as shown, but w no premium for being H&A)"

Reply: "some vendors will mark it up more, but not me, its a very good buy".

Is it me, or is he implying that this is a H&A. He didn't say that, if we want to split hairs, but also didn't correct me when I asked point blank. But cutting me a deal by no premium as if it is a HA? Shoot??? Is this shady? Combined with the comment on the appearance of larger? I would be TICKLED PINK to have a 2.28 looks true size and a 3x. Does not need to be H/A (he mentioned it, not me. Wasn't on my radar). No need to mislead me. Am I missing something? is it me? I thought IDJ was one of the top vendors on PS?
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Ah, sorry I didn't realize you weren't working with JA. I see now that you posted the link so we could see the stone in consideration.

Why don't you ask him what he means when he says it faces up as a 2.5 carat vs a true 2.28 carat? As a clarification since you aren't viewing it.

As far as the H&A issue, I wouldn't assume he's pulling one over you. They are nice hearts, not a true to the strictest terms hearts so he may have been using the term in the loose squishy way many vendors do. From your quotations, I don't think he has said they are true H&A, so it's difficult to interpret his meaning. I would ask him something along these lines....."From what I've seen and read, the stone has very nice hearts and arrows, but they wouldn't be true H&A in the strictest sense. That's completely fine with me, I just want to know that I'm not paying a premium for a true, precision cut H&A stone." And then see what he says.

If this is Yuketiel from IDJ, I have not personally worked with him, but many on PS have and love him. Just type in his name in the search bar and you'll see. Comparing it to the JA price, I don't think he's over-charging you.

What is his return policy?
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Look at what ecf8503 says about H&A.
What JDDN says re price is valid. It doesn't seem to be the case with this diamond though.
If it does, it will be marked as True Hearts by JA and will be priced higher than the current listed price at JA.
You can somewhat easily see if the price is fair or not by using the diamond search feature on this website.
Re size, well... with its cut proportion it seems like the size is quite optimal for the weight/carat.
Can be similar to 2.5, if the 2.5 is cut a bit deeper.
With so many stones out there that are not cut well, this statement is not exactly wrong.

I can understand the anxiety that can come up with such a big commitment (7 years :clap: )
That's why it's important to breathe :)
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

I wouldn't worry about working with IDJ, they are highly regarded here and I don't think he is trying to pull any fast ones. It isn't worth it for him to do that. In my opinion, those hearts and arrows are really very good for a stone that isn't branded and marketed as a hearts and arrows stone. It most definitely isn't carrying the price premium of a branded h&a stone like this one which does carry the premium ($3,000 more):

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172001.htm

I am curious what the reason is to steer clear of the one from Enchanted? The price seems to be low, so there may very well be a reason, but I'd ask why he is telling you to stay away from that one. I have personally purchased from Enchanted and had a great experience. It is unfortunate that you have to purchase the diamond prior to being able to get them to see it in person, but they do offer free returns for 30 days which is nice.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

I recently bought a diamond from Yekutiel @ IDJ and the experience has been great so far.

While I haven't seen the diamond personally yet (mailed it to an aunt who will be passing it to me in 2.5 weeks), I don't believe he will willingly jeopardize his reputation here just to make a quick buck.

When he sent me pictures of my diamond, I asked him if it was considered a H&A and he told me honestly he would not classify it as H&A because the table was slightly big (58%). He sounds like a stand up guy on the phone.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

IDJ when asked about H/A:
in the strictest sense NO.. But to most jewelers YES...also the spread is very fine. You can find diamonds that weigh more that will measure less..

Hey, that is great with me. Great looking diamond is all I want. H/A after the lottery. And yes, I understand the concept of deep cut diamonds vs one with more of a spread.He doing his job and selling me the diamond. Respectfully as should. I don't feel pressure from him. Just want to be sure I am not making a mistake. I know there are lots out there. No rush, but of course, if there is one that matches my needs and the price is good....I guess it is the size that has me going on this. Pretty darn big. I may go for it after I look up diamond prices on the PS tool to be sure this is reasonable.

I'm going to pour some bourbon
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

Thank you DarkKing and GL on your diamond!!! I agree with everything you said. :)

PFUNK- GREAT to hear about IDJ and the rep. I feel so much better overall.

As far as ED--my ain hesitation is that the diamond is in HK and cant be viewed by ED/USA until I pay full price up front. I have to rely on the HK vendor to comment on any specifics in color. Makes me a bit shy. I love the idea IDJ has the diamond in hand and has looked at it specifically based on my needs before I put down the money. Maybe that is not so important. Maybe the other way is how someone saves more and still gets a great diamond. Just makes me feel more comfortable. The price for that 2.4 at ED is crazy good. DE is currently gathering more information on the J shade from Hong Kong. I have not 100% counted out. Asked IDJ about it and I think they can not get the diamond since in HK.

Also, I was warned about Indian diamonds. Took me forever to figure out what that comment meant on Google. I guess "blood diamonds". I know folks say what they say to get business (example-- the local jeweler guy mentioned Indian diamonds when I commented about buying on line few weeks ago). Of course, he wanted my business.
 
Re: WOW do the diamond searches move FAST-how is this diamon

cinnamonstick|1439246328|3913119 said:
Thank you DarkKing and GL on your diamond!!! I agree with everything you said. :)

PFUNK- GREAT to hear about IDJ and the rep. I feel so much better overall.

As far as ED--my ain hesitation is that the diamond is in HK and cant be viewed by ED/USA until I pay full price up front. I have to rely on the HK vendor to comment on any specifics in color. Makes me a bit shy. I love the idea IDJ has the diamond in hand and has looked at it specifically based on my needs before I put down the money. Maybe that is not so important. Maybe the other way is how someone saves more and still gets a great diamond. Just makes me feel more comfortable. The price for that 2.4 at ED is crazy good. DE is currently gathering more information on the J shade from Hong Kong. I have not 100% counted out. Asked IDJ about it and I think they can not get the diamond since in HK.

Also, I was warned about Indian diamonds. Took me forever to figure out what that comment meant on Google. I guess "blood diamonds". I know folks say what they say to get business (example-- the local jeweler guy mentioned Indian diamonds when I commented about buying on line few weeks ago). Of course, he wanted my business.
Click to expand...
You are looking at a virtual diamond - not one in house - so yes, there are risks. In house diamonds are ones that a vendor liked so much they bought it. That means a lot.
Indian diamonds have a bad reputation with many American retailers, they will tell you 80% of what they sell are from Belgium or Antwerp. BS - they get sent from India where the vast majority of diamonds are cut and polished to Antwerp and sold with no country of origin. India cuts the very best and the very worst diamonds. What you are using are tools to help reject the duds and narrow the field to winners.
Overall for the sake of all Pricescope advised buyers, supporting vendors selling inhouse diamonds is a good thing - it saves tears. The virtuals keep the prices of the inhouse competitive.
 
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