Would you vote to legalize pot today?

[packrat]

For every study you find that says it's not a gateway drug, you'll find one that says it is. It's the same thing with every other argument on the face of the earth. Every Dr will tell you that teething doesn't cause fevers, every mother will tell you differently. Playing video games screws w/your memory and kids' levels at school...except when it doesn't and it increases brainwaves and improves eye/hand coordination. Alcohol is bad except when it's good in specific exacting amounts. EGGS! Don't eat EGGS! But yes now you ca----oohhhh shit nope, sorry, this weeks study says no.

Everyone wants to be in control of their lives, nobody wants to be told what to do...except when they mess it all up and then they want it taken care of post haste b/c HEY! People make mistakes and HEY! I can't be held responsible for every(any)thing cripes, what am I a fecking adult?

So we've got MADD, and SADD..we may as well add um..MAPS? Mother's against pot smokers? Or..MAHD ooh that's better b/c it's kinda like MADD-Mother's against High Drivers, boom.

Just b/c something is here on this planet does not mean it's free game. I've heard the "God put it here for a reason" and "It's natural and part of the earth/environment" argument so many times it makes me want to puke.

I've smoked pot many times, when I was a teenager. When stupid kids do stupid things. I don't like to not be in control.

And it's a complete and utter joke of asinine proportions to talk of the govt running it/controlling it. Like they don't already have their dirty greedy mitts in it? And since when is it a *good* thing when the govt touches anything? But wait, the govt is really good about NOT finding random places to divert extra funds to, right? I mean, the money will stay in the states right? It won't go towards ohhh I dunno, a $47,000 flat head screwdriver or worthless studies on the plight of the mud wasp, or raises for govt officials or anything, I'm sure..I shouldn't be so cynical. Of COURSE the money will go towards the homeless and better education for our kids so we can get ahead of the game there,...we'll be keeping our infrastructure in tip top shape as well I'm sure. Of course it won't go towards funding all kinds of rehab/treatment facilities for the new batches of addicts that crop up, b/c people will always use responsibly, of course.

People are people. Legalize pot. Do it. And then it will lose its cool factor or whatever some people are drawn to. Then maaaaybe meth will be the shizz. Or coke. Then since more people will be into those illegal drugs, we'll need to work on legalizing them...cuz you know it will make all kinds of money for the states, of course, and that will make up for the loss of revenue from the people that have gravitated away from pot b/c it's not enough for them anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, we are a nation of "gimme gimme gimme I want I want don't tell me what to do you're not the boss of me" pouty faced brats.

I wonder what JD and all the other cops in the US will do once pot is legal and all the crimes are gone. Give an occasional speeding ticket I guess.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Yes, because there is a big misconception that medical marijuana gets people "high." It doesn't and isn't the same as recreational marijuana.

Medical marijuana is bred to have very low levels of THC, which is what gives people the "high." It is bred to have higher levels of CBD, which is the medicinal aspect of marijuana that helps children and adults with seizures and etc. I have a friend whose child needed this due to her seizures and am happy that she can now get it more easily esp. in a form that she can take - a toddler can't smoke medical marijuana. They need to have it in an edible form. Public perception of medical marijuana has come a long way! And this comes from someone who has never even smoked a cigarette, so I'm not one who partakes in it at all. LOL

ETA: Oops, just read the topic more carefully. Hmmm, legalizing marijuana for recreational use? I'm not for that! Maybe I'm too old school but the whole "it's a gateway drug" theme they drilled into us in high school stuck! Fuddy duddy here.

Not all medical marijuana is bred for lower THC levels...the strain Charlotte's Web has higher CBD and was named after a girl with continuous seizures who's parents tried MMJ as a last resort. The regular strains still have various levels of THC and come in sativas and indicas and the differences between those are one helps certain certain health problems and the other works with other ailments. The important thing is that a person gets authorized and then talks to someone who can recommend what is right for them.

ETA - and once people are buying it w/out authorization or an RX, they should read up on the differences between the strains before buying. It's just like considering how one reacts to a couple of shots of rum vs. a couple of beers.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

No problem ilander. I don't know a lot of things but I do know about drugs.

I should have explained a half life means half the time it takes for the drug to get out of your system. So in theory if you drink one drink (12 oz beer, 1.5 oz liquor, 4.5 oz wine) it will no longer affect you after an hour. Gender, weight, stomach contents all change so that is just a rough guideline. Drugs that like water (e.g. cocaine) have a shorter half life. Drugs that like fat take longer. Nothing stays in your system longer than THC.

I do understand your perspective, Tacori. I'm familiar with the info you've posted - I'm a bit of an obsessive reader, so I tend to "investigate" anything that I find the least bit interesting. You are certainly stating facts and I respect that. My own perspective has not been formed in any professional capacity, just through my own life experiences and (admittedly thorough) reading. We just disagree on this and I'm not looking to argue anything out; I don't expect my opinion to change anyone's mind about this (or anything else, for that matter, lol).

Don't think I was arguing with anyone. I was only stating my professional and personal opinion on the matter. Doesn't always make me popular (this is not the first and will not be the last debate I decide to participate in) but I also have experience with the "other" side of drugs and alcohol. Things not just read in books or seen in movies. I work with people who become prisoners in their own bodies, controlled by their addictions. Families who are so deeply affected. So it does change the way I look at topics such as this one. There is nothing healthy or okay about THC IMHO. When we alter our reward pathways in our brain it becomes more difficult to feel pleasure naturally. True can be said for opiates. The body "forgets" how to fight pain and I have had SO many chronic pain opiate addicts say their pain is more tolerable OFF the opiates than on. Same goes for anxiety and benzos. I am not saying medication should not be used a prescribed in a responsible way. Of course I believe it should be. Addicts or those who struggle with compulsion are in a different boat. The problem is a person doesn't know they are an addict until they put mind altering substances in their bodies. That is why certain cultures have lower rates of addiction.

Though I do believe it will become legal I will never vote in favor of that. That's what this thread is asking, correct? I have the right to that opinion.

 

[katharath]

No problem ilander. I don't know a lot of things but I do know about drugs.

I should have explained a half life means half the time it takes for the drug to get out of your system. So in theory if you drink one drink (12 oz beer, 1.5 oz liquor, 4.5 oz wine) it will no longer affect you after an hour. Gender, weight, stomach contents all change so that is just a rough guideline. Drugs that like water (e.g. cocaine) have a shorter half life. Drugs that like fat take longer. Nothing stays in your system longer than THC.

I do understand your perspective, Tacori. I'm familiar with the info you've posted - I'm a bit of an obsessive reader, so I tend to "investigate" anything that I find the least bit interesting. You are certainly stating facts and I respect that. My own perspective has not been formed in any professional capacity, just through my own life experiences and (admittedly thorough) reading. We just disagree on this and I'm not looking to argue anything out; I don't expect my opinion to change anyone's mind about this (or anything else, for that matter, lol).

Don't think I was arguing with anyone. I was only stating my professional and personal opinion on the matter. Doesn't always make me popular (this is not the first and will not be the last debate I decide to participate in) but I also have experience with the "other" side of drugs and alcohol. Things not just read in books or seen in movies. I work with people who become prisoners in their own bodies, controlled by their addictions. Families who are so deeply affected. So it does change the way I look at topics such as this one. There is nothing healthy or okay about THC IMHO. When we alter our reward pathways in our brain it becomes more difficult to feel pleasure naturally. True can be said for opiates. The body "forgets" how to fight pain and I have had SO many chronic pain opiate addicts say their pain is more tolerable OFF the opiates than on. Same goes for anxiety and benzos. I am not saying medication should not be used a prescribed in a responsible way. Of course I believe it should be. Addicts or those who struggle with compulsion are in a different boat. The problem is a person doesn't know they are an addict until they put mind altering substances in their bodies. That is why certain cultures have lower rates of addiction.

Though I do believe it will become legal I will never vote in favor of that. That's what this thread is asking, correct? I have the right to that opinion.

I didn't think you were trying to argue with anyone at all and of course you're entitled to your opinion. That's exactly what I was trying to say. I was attempting to go out of my way to say that, but maybe it didn't come off that way. Apologies.

 

[ksinger]

Put me in the loathe it/gateway drug/associate-it-with-junkies camp. Maybe incorrect, but early conditioning dies hard. I was a kid during the fullest flowering of the drug culture and thus grew up with drugs-bad drilled into my head, plus I lived with a 2-pack-a-day chainsmoker. NOTHING that had to be smoked was going in this body. E.V.E.R. I think smoking anything is just about as nasty as it gets. (And yes, I know there are other ways, but my motivation for ingesting mind-altering anything has always been insanely low.)

I am also amazed that so many people are so nonchalant about the states "voting" to nullify federal law. I would not be so thrilled by that, since the same mindset is eroding reproductive freedoms at a clip at the state levels. Enjoy that pot, because you're going to be knocked up with no recourse too.

That said, I think it should be legalized for personal and medical use, if for no other reason than we simply can't afford to incarcerate so many for it. It's too costly. But I don't and won't like it.

I'm not AT ALL thrilled about what's gone on/going on in states like Texas, North Dakota, Ohio, etc regarding women's reproductive rights. I'm one of the most rabid supporters of a woman's right to choose that you will ever find (my friends and family are probably quite sick of my preaching about it...) However, abortion is legal on a federal level, and I'm simply stating that it is my personal belief that marijuana will reach that level of legality as well. It's my opinion that marijuana use is far less of a subculture and far more "mainstream" than it's ever been. I think that 20 years ago, most people would've said gay marriage should be shunned. Look how far we've come in that regard! I personally believe that 20 yrs from now, it's quite possible that the public outlook on marijuana will be similarly changed. It appears to be trending that way from what I've seen.

Not trying to offend anyone, hope I'm not!

No worries katharath, I wasn't directing that at any particular person here. Pot legalization comes up in pretty much all social media, not just here, and the overwhelming responses I've seen are satisfied with the states thumbing their noses at the illegality of pot at the federal level. And most of these people are the same people who in the next breath will froth mightily at state attempts to restrict access to abortion - even to the point of making it effectively impossible to get, even though this too is an issue that has been decided at a federal level. You can't applaud one and condemn the other. It was a comment on how inconsistent people can be depending on how they feel about an issue. Both issues have those who are sneering at federal law, and in my opinion, neither of those groups is particularly admirable for that, and I think it further erodes our respect for our form of goverment.

 

[katharath]

Ksinger - yes, I see your point. A lot of hypocrisy going on there.

 

[kenny]

My oldest brother was a heavy user of many drugs.
He ended up being murdered in prison in his 20s.
My dad was an alcoholic.
My other older brother is also a drug addict and vanished many years ago.
He's likely homeless or dead.

It's not surprising I was a goodytwoshoes.
Today I'm a light occasional wine or beer guy.
As an adult with a decent income and highly educated social circle I have been astonished to learn how many 'respectable' people are closet pot smokers.
I used to criticize them to my SO and he called me a bigot.
I finally realize that he is right and many many people use pot like many fully-responsible people use alcohol.

I'm for legalizing recreational use, but not so I can use it recreationally.
I'm for legalizing it to respect diversity when it comes to something that I perceive is no more harmful than other legal stuff like alcohol.
America of the past has gone nutty in their anti-drug campaigns.
It smacks of that puritan I'm a better person than you crap.
Did you see the absurd 1937 propaganda film, "Refer Madness".? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azf320JDdqU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

Also America has the highest percentage of it's citizens in jail and some for marijuana.
Jailing people is expensive, unnecessary, and harmful to the prisoner and his/her family.

 

[monarch64]

My ex-husband was a habitual marijuana user. It took me years to realize just how dependent he was on the drug. Do I think it was an addiction? Possibly. At the end it seemed like he couldn't get through the day without using. His boss and the boss's wife were heavy users of pot as well. Basically most of the men he was friends with were also users and hid their habit from their wives.

I remember hating his marijuana use not because it seemed to put him in a different state, (heck, he was nicer to me when he was smoking than when he wasn't) but because of the deception involved (lying, hiding it, etc.) and the fact that I was always worried about him getting busted, and the scariness of knowing he was consorting with criminals who were dealing it to him. I just always thought it was such a shady, shadowy mess.

Now, before I met him, back when I was in college, there were times when I'd happily hit a joint that was being passed around, and I never thought anything of it. I thought it was just a little party favor, something people did for fun after a tough week of studying and tests/papers/whatever. I even came home on fall break one year and told my parents that I had tried it and it was no big deal!
I'd never met anyone who smoked it all the time or seemed to have a problem moderating their use.

After my divorce, I went through about a 4 year period of being vehemently opposed to marijuana use, whether medicinal or recreational in nature. I met my now-husband who didn't smoke pot at all (although he had in the past--recreationally--and had friends who smoked on the downlow.) We bought a house together 2 years ago, and became friends with some neighbors who are occasional pot smokers. At first, I had a really hard time accepting them because I knew of their "habits" and absolutely condemned them for it. Nothing is every really black/white, though. After time, and after my husband let these people (two different families, and the husbands were the smokers) know that I took offense to anyone smoking pot, I ended up coming to a completely different outlook. These people lead productive lives and have made positive contributions to our community. They are childless by choice. Their wives know, and don't disapprove. It's kind of a different world than what I used to know.

I voted (in this poll) to legalize, period. Let's get it over with. Let's regulate it. Let's tax the shit out of it. And now...for some "comedy?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/drunk-vs-stoned_n_3816481.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

 

[Rockdiamond]

As usual, Kenny posts thought provoking subjects- and starts a very good discussion.
My main problem with the current state of affairs is that no matter how you fall on the question of "Is pot a bad drug" we seem to be wasting a HUGE amount of resources, with zero positive effect. For better or worse, more and more people smoke pot - in spite of the law.
Some of the money being spent to enforce laws against MJ could be spent on helping those experiencing a problem with it.
Plus the tax benefits will be massive.
It seems to be win win. We can stop wasting money on enforcement of a law that seems to be disregarded by literally millions of Americans, saving huge sums- then add a substantial revenue base by taxing MJ sales and production.

In NYC, the practice of "Stop and Frisk" has put thousands- probably hundreds of thousands of people behind bars for the evening- for possessing a small amount.
Another horrible cost is the distrust of the NYPD this has bred.
As was pointed out- disrespect for our government is certainly negative for our society, and these laws seem only to add to the problem on both local and national level.

 

[kenny]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/drunk-vs-stoned_n_3816481.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

 

[Dancing Fire]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/drunk-vs-stoned_n_3816481.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

Kenny...you look so young in that video...

 

[kenny]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/drunk-vs-stoned_n_3816481.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

Kenny...you look so young in that video...

LOL!

 

[makemepretty]

Absolutely not.

Anyone who thinks it's "harmless" did not grow up with people who are burn outs from using it too much, a parent who would spend their money buying it rather than food, a whole town where it's now legal to use it or grow it because of it's so called "medical" use and the fact that it IS a gateway drug. Heck, my husband was just offered some as a bonus on a job he was doing from a medical grower. He turned it down. Someone he knows is so frickin' slow mentally now because of his excessive use of it. There have been links to schizophrenia after use and I've seen that happen. I don't care what studies come out, you can find a study to support or disprove your own theories. I've seen it's effects in person and they are not pretty, they are sad and devastating. Just because other things are legal is not a good excuse to make it legal. That's the whole "if so and so jumped off a bridge would you" argument, in my opinion.

 

[HollyS]

As a drug and alcohol counselor I vote no. Someone asked the difference between alcohol and THC. There are many differences but the main for me is the half life of alcohol is 30 mins. Half life of THC is 72 hrs b/c it is stored in fat and are brains are fatty. Personally I would not want my child's teacher, bus driver, surgeon having a joint and then attempting to preform their jobs to the best of their abilities. Even days later. A person can test positive 30 days after use. It lowers white blood cells (which adds to the controversy of med. MJ). Studies show it can cause amotivational syndrome. It is VERY dangerous for people with mental illness or vulnerabilities to mental illness. All mind altering substances hijack the brain. I work in an inpatient mental health unit and have personally seen psychosis brought on by THC. MJ today is much more potent than MJ in the 70s. I don't believe it is the most dangerous drug, but I do believe it is dangerous. Unfortunately I think it will become legal. States are making so much money on taxing head shops.

Here is a good article for those who want to learn more about how THC affects the brain. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body

Hard to argue with this.

That should have been the last word, really, in this thread. What we all "think" about pot doesn't matter.

 

[justginger]

As a drug and alcohol counselor I vote no. Someone asked the difference between alcohol and THC. There are many differences but the main for me is the half life of alcohol is 30 mins. Half life of THC is 72 hrs b/c it is stored in fat and are brains are fatty. Personally I would not want my child's teacher, bus driver, surgeon having a joint and then attempting to preform their jobs to the best of their abilities. Even days later. A person can test positive 30 days after use. It lowers white blood cells (which adds to the controversy of med. MJ). Studies show it can cause amotivational syndrome. It is VERY dangerous for people with mental illness or vulnerabilities to mental illness. All mind altering substances hijack the brain. I work in an inpatient mental health unit and have personally seen psychosis brought on by THC. MJ today is much more potent than MJ in the 70s. I don't believe it is the most dangerous drug, but I do believe it is dangerous. Unfortunately I think it will become legal. States are making so much money on taxing head shops.

Here is a good article for those who want to learn more about how THC affects the brain. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body

Hard to argue with this.

That should have been the last word, really, in this thread. What we all "think" about pot doesn't matter.

Perhaps. Or perhaps the last word should be from the medical researchers who have essentially cured a variety of cancers in vivo, using concentrated marijuana extracts. If my (non-existent) child were diagnosed with an inoperable tumour, the legality of marijuana would be the last of my concerns as I exhausted every possible avenue of treatment.

And as an aside, why is it that many people who are very 'small government' support the illegality of marijuana? I don't understand the disconnect - less government intervention, except when it comes to drugs.

 

[HollyS]

As a drug and alcohol counselor I vote no. Someone asked the difference between alcohol and THC. There are many differences but the main for me is the half life of alcohol is 30 mins. Half life of THC is 72 hrs b/c it is stored in fat and are brains are fatty. Personally I would not want my child's teacher, bus driver, surgeon having a joint and then attempting to preform their jobs to the best of their abilities. Even days later. A person can test positive 30 days after use. It lowers white blood cells (which adds to the controversy of med. MJ). Studies show it can cause amotivational syndrome. It is VERY dangerous for people with mental illness or vulnerabilities to mental illness. All mind altering substances hijack the brain. I work in an inpatient mental health unit and have personally seen psychosis brought on by THC. MJ today is much more potent than MJ in the 70s. I don't believe it is the most dangerous drug, but I do believe it is dangerous. Unfortunately I think it will become legal. States are making so much money on taxing head shops.

Here is a good article for those who want to learn more about how THC affects the brain. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body

Hard to argue with this.

That should have been the last word, really, in this thread. What we all "think" about pot doesn't matter.

Perhaps. Or perhaps the last word should be from the medical researchers who have essentially cured a variety of cancers in vivo, using concentrated marijuana extracts. If my (non-existent) child were diagnosed with an inoperable tumour, the legality of marijuana would be the last of my concerns as I exhausted every possible avenue of treatment.

And as an aside, why is it that many people who are very 'small government' support the illegality of marijuana? I don't understand the disconnect - less government intervention, except when it comes to drugs.

Let's not start a discussion about my politics versus your politics. Or what you believe to be our diametrically opposed viewpoints. That isn't the issue. Medical marijuana isn't even the issue. If pot were legalized, the majority would be used recreationally, and we all know it. Given that, the issues Tacori brings up are valid and quite the point.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

As a drug and alcohol counselor I vote no. Someone asked the difference between alcohol and THC. There are many differences but the main for me is the half life of alcohol is 30 mins. Half life of THC is 72 hrs b/c it is stored in fat and are brains are fatty. Personally I would not want my child's teacher, bus driver, surgeon having a joint and then attempting to preform their jobs to the best of their abilities. Even days later. A person can test positive 30 days after use. It lowers white blood cells (which adds to the controversy of med. MJ). Studies show it can cause amotivational syndrome. It is VERY dangerous for people with mental illness or vulnerabilities to mental illness. All mind altering substances hijack the brain. I work in an inpatient mental health unit and have personally seen psychosis brought on by THC. MJ today is much more potent than MJ in the 70s. I don't believe it is the most dangerous drug, but I do believe it is dangerous. Unfortunately I think it will become legal. States are making so much money on taxing head shops.

Here is a good article for those who want to learn more about how THC affects the brain. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body

Hard to argue with this.

That should have been the last word, really, in this thread. What we all "think" about pot doesn't matter.

Perhaps. Or perhaps the last word should be from the medical researchers who have essentially cured a variety of cancers in vivo, using concentrated marijuana extracts. If my (non-existent) child were diagnosed with an inoperable tumour, the legality of marijuana would be the last of my concerns as I exhausted every possible avenue of treatment.

And as an aside, why is it that many people who are very 'small government' support the illegality of marijuana? I don't understand the disconnect - less government intervention, except when it comes to drugs.

Let's not start a discussion about my politics versus your politics. Or what you believe to be our diametrically opposed viewpoints. That isn't the issue. Medical marijuana isn't even the issue. If pot were legalized, the majority would be used recreationally, and we all know it. Given that, the issues Tacori brings up are valid and quite the point.

THC has been available in pill form for awhile now. I believe that is how it should be used medically. Just like any other medication you would get. I am suspicious of people who are truly seeking it for medical reasons consuming it by smoking or edibles. Compulsive behavior feeds off of rituals. For every study in favor there is a study against. I guess it depends on who is paying for the study. There are pros and cons of EVERY medication. The problem I have is when people, not saying anyone here is, glorify MJ as a miracle cure/drug/solution. It is not. It can be dangerous for many people. What is really sad is for every $1 that *could* be spent on treatment, it costs $7 to "punish." I wish more money was spent on recovery, treatment, and prevention. That's what would make the prisons less crowded, not legalizing a very powerful mind altering substance.

 

[Niel]

It seems like a lot of people assume use of marijuana equates to the abuse of it. Which is in part ignorance, and in part because the majority of people you see openly doing it do abuse it. That's not because of the drug though, that's because the illegality of it forces responsible users into the shadows, so you don't see those.

The fact is if someone wants to abuse it, pot is entirely too easy to get. So the government is loosing the ability to tax and regulate by making it illegal. Make it legal some will use it responsibility, some will abuse. Just like alcohol. Just like what's already happening. The difference is its out in the open, making it easier for the user to know what they are getting and to do it safely. Plus the government can regulate it with FDA standards, and tax. Instead of spending money on a loosing battle.


I'll say again, if I can get diet pills, vodka, and bacon ice cream, a person should be able to get pot.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Niel, what's considered a "safe" dose of THC? How do you monitor it? I think alcohol can be very dangerous but like I said in my first post it was a MUCH shorter half line, there are CLEAR guidelines on serving sizes, on what abuse is, and what level is legal to drive. I am curious how the same could be done with THC.

 

[packrat]

The day I see the President of the United States sitting on the front steps of the White House taking a big ole drag off a joint is the day I'm moving underground.

 

[Niel]

Niel, what's considered a "safe" dose of THC? How do you monitor it? I think alcohol can be very dangerous but like I said in my first post it was a MUCH shorter half line, there are CLEAR guidelines on serving sizes, on what abuse is, and what level is legal to drive. I am curious how the same could be done with THC.

Well we ll admittedly i dont know. Im not a doctor or someone who smokes marijuana so i havent looked into it. I assume people have, as they are looking at it in cancer research....

And the half life may be less for alcohol, but the amount required to kill the individual is much higher.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Niel, what's considered a "safe" dose of THC? How do you monitor it? I think alcohol can be very dangerous but like I said in my first post it was a MUCH shorter half line, there are CLEAR guidelines on serving sizes, on what abuse is, and what level is legal to drive. I am curious how the same could be done with THC.

A joint a day keeps the doctor away..

 

[makhro82]

My thoughts on the subject:

Don't smoke it, never have, never will.

I don't really trust many of the studies on marijuana as I believe they were designed to show that marijuana usage is a gateway drug, that is long-lasting, that it causes amotivational syndrome, etc.

I live in California where lots of professionals I know have club cards. I've never seen any one of them hungover or strung out.

My uncle has been a chronic marijuana smoker for 40 years, my dad an alcoholic for the same amount of time. Who do you think is on better shape? Not my dad who had Stage C congestive heart failure.

My mom has MS it's one of the few things that helps with her pain and nausea. Same thing for my grandmother when she was dying from pancreatic cancer.

 

[makhro82]

And one more thought how much and how quickly would someone need to consume before marijuana became deadly. The only people I know that die from marijuana use are those trying to sell it or buy it.

I don't doubt that marijuana can have long-term negative effects but that can come from abuse of legal substances such as alcohol and tobacco. My grandfather died from cirrhosis of the liver I'm sure if he replaced pot with alcohol he wouldn't have died at 48.

 

[Tuckins1]

I would and have.

 

[aljdewey]

Niel, what's considered a "safe" dose of THC? How do you monitor it? I think alcohol can be very dangerous but like I said in my first post it was a MUCH shorter half line, there are CLEAR guidelines on serving sizes, on what abuse is, and what level is legal to drive. I am curious how the same could be done with THC.

This is actually an interesting observation because it almost supports the argument toward legalization/regulation...if you think about it.

The reason there are clear guidelines on serving sizes, what level is legal to drive, and what constitutes abuse is possible because there are restrictions and regulations which apply to the manufacturers of alcohol, and that's possible only because it's legal and the product is repeatably manufactured for consistency. Those guidelines would go out the window if you started trying to apply them to every home micro-brewer or home still operation because the creation process would vary too greatly, and there would be no oversight as to the addition of other agents.

I don't use MJ, and never have....not even once in my 48 years. Part of that stems from my enormous dislike for the smell, but another large part of it has been an awareness that I can never really know what's in it. In order for me to trust something enough to ingest it, I have to feel reasonably confident in the expertise and ability of the person making/blending it, and I couldn't really get there in an unregulated substance.

 

[ericad]

I'm curious - for those who feel that MJ should remain illegal, may I ask what your thoughts are about legal substances such as alcohol and tobacco products? Do you feel that those should be made illegal? If not, why not?

For example, we know that alcohol impairs, that it can be used socially and recreationally in moderation without ill effects, but that long term abuse can kill you. Tobacco products don't impair, but we know that long term use, even in moderation, can also kill you. To my knowledge I'm not aware that long term use, even abuse, of marijuana will, more often than not, kill the user in the same proportions as you see with alcohol or tobacco products. It might cause permanent damage of some kind, say in cognitive function, but will MJ abuse lead to death at the same statistical frequency as with alcohol and cigarettes?

Should marijuana be lumped in with things like meth and crack, or is it more similar to alcohol and tobacco? And what about prescription narcotics - are they more similar to meth and crack, or more similar to alcohol and tobacco?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, lest anyone misunderstand! I'm genuinely curious as to the logic as it compares to currently legal substances.

My opinion is that marijuana, when used in moderation, is far safer than alcohol or tobacco. When abused, I still believe it's safer and less deadly than alcohol or tobacco. I cannot say this about any other illegal substance (meth, crack, cocaine, hallucinogens, heroin, etc.), nor can I say the latter about most prescription drugs.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Around 1,000 people die a day from tobacco related illnesses, around 600 people die related to alcohol. Part of alcohol's lethality IS that it is legal. Around 300 die related to all other drugs daily. People do not OD on MJ, that is true, but it is naive to think their aren't long-term side effects. There are long-term side effects to MOST things. Messing with the reward pathways in your brain is not harmless. As I said in a previous post, and I am only repeating it because people are still saying people cannot die from MJ, I have seen THC induced psychosis personally. Attempted suicides. Mental illness worsen permanently. One still haunts me and the young man did complete a month after leaving the hospital. I have treated patients that *only* use THC and have B&E records, dropped out of school, and other harmful consequences. I guess one could argue that they would have done those things anyways, but I doubt it. I spent a great deal of time learning about how all drugs effect us physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I have seen children neglected b/c of THC. Lives ruined. Do I think that EVERYONE who smokes pot is an addict, no. Do I think EVERYONE who tries pot will be addicted, no. Do I think pot is the most harmful drug, no. I do think it can be very, very harmful and for me it isn't worth the risk to legalize it. There was a study done on pilots who smoked a joint and then flew in a flight stimulator. The study showed their flying was still impaired up to 30 days after smoke once. That scares me. Guess I am a fear based person when it comes to my family's safety.

 

[ericad]

I don't believe I said that there were no long term effects of smoking pot. You essentially reinforced just what I was saying: that the negative effects of marijuana abuse exist, but in a much smaller proportion than those of alcohol and tobacco abuse.

So my question is this - do you believe that alcohol and tobacco products should be made illegal? If not, then why not? What about prescription narcotics, and all of their deadly side effects when abused?

Do you believe that marijuana is more similar to alcohol and tobacco, or more similar to drugs such as meth and crack, and why?

I genuinely want to understand, because it feels like a double standard to me. If the concern is public safety, then logic tells me that MJ should be legal, and alcohol, tobacco and most other drugs (street drugs and prescription) should be illegal.

 

[Demelza]

I don't believe I said that there were no long term effects of smoking pot. You essentially reinforced just what I was saying: that the negative effects of marijuana abuse exist, but in a much smaller proportion than those of alcohol and tobacco abuse.

So my question is this - do you believe that alcohol and tobacco products should be made illegal? If not, then why not? What about prescription narcotics, and all of their deadly side effects when abused?

Do you believe that marijuana is more similar to alcohol and tobacco, or more similar to drugs such as meth and crack, and why?

I genuinely want to understand, because it feels like a double standard to me. If the concern is public safety, then logic tells me that MJ should be legal, and alcohol, tobacco and most other drugs (street drugs and prescription) should be illegal.

Great post! I, too, would be interested in the answer to these questions. I don't think this issue is as black and white as some people are suggesting.

As a drug and alcohol counselor I vote no. Someone asked the difference between alcohol and THC. There are many differences but the main for me is the half life of alcohol is 30 mins. Half life of THC is 72 hrs b/c it is stored in fat and are brains are fatty. Personally I would not want my child's teacher, bus driver, surgeon having a joint and then attempting to preform their jobs to the best of their abilities. Even days later. A person can test positive 30 days after use. It lowers white blood cells (which adds to the controversy of med. MJ). Studies show it can cause amotivational syndrome. It is VERY dangerous for people with mental illness or vulnerabilities to mental illness. All mind altering substances hijack the brain. I work in an inpatient mental health unit and have personally seen psychosis brought on by THC. MJ today is much more potent than MJ in the 70s. I don't believe it is the most dangerous drug, but I do believe it is dangerous. Unfortunately I think it will become legal. States are making so much money on taxing head shops.

Here is a good article for those who want to learn more about how THC affects the brain. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body

Hard to argue with this.

That should have been the last word, really, in this thread. What we all "think" about pot doesn't matter.

I disagree. If the argument for keeping pot illegal is that abusing it is harmful, then alcohol and tobacco, and a variety of other readily available substances, should also be illegal. I think this issue is less about science and logic and more about history and culture. Can you imagine people's reaction if suddenly wine were an illicit substance? The truth is that alcohol has the potential to cause just as much, if not more, harm as marijuana. The difference is that there is a whole culture and allure around alcohol and we as a society don't generally think of it as something illicit or dirty or bad. If someone wanted to say that ALL harmful substances (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, heroin, cocaine, etc.) should be illegal, I might not agree, but at least that would be a consistent and logical argument. It makes no sense to say that marijuana should be illegal because some people abuse it and suffer badly as a result, but the current legal status of alcohol and tobacco is just fine as it is.

And, for the record, I do not smoke marijuana nor have I ever tried it. I don't drink either and have probably consumed the equivalent of one glass of wine over the course of my lifetime.