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Would you say something?

Puppmom

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On Saturday, DH babysat my nephews (ages 11, 7, and 5) because my baby shower was that day and my sister's husband refused to keep them ALL day. DH was really nervous as he has VERY limited experience with kids and wasn't sure how he would tend to the boys for several hours. When we caught up later, he actually said they had a really good time but there was an "incident" with my oldest nephew when he took them to the playground. So, I'm trying to figure out if I should say something to my sister.

Here's what happened:

DH took the kids to the playground and was mostly occupied with minding the two little guys, fortunately with a lot of help from the oldest. While doing a headcount to make sure everyone was okay, DH passed the oldest nephew, J, who was talking to another boy. DH heard the boy introduce himself, ask my nephew's name and ask if he wanted to play. DH kept walking, accounted for the other two children, then made his way back to the bench where he was sitting. He passed J again and overheard him telling the child (who was African American) that he didn't like any of the African American students at his school because they're all snobs. The boy asked why and J told him because he thought they were better athletes than all of the other kids. DH let it be and sat on the bench still within earshot of the boys. He couldn't hear some of what was said but a moment later heard J say "I'll tell you what. I do think that Abraham Lincoln did the right thing when he freed the slaves."
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DH was MORTIFIED and rounded up the kids and left the playground. He felt awful and honestly felt like shouting from the rooftops that this was NOT his child. In hindsight, he wishes he had done things differently - maybe interrupted the conversation, maybe addressed it with J, maybe apologized to the woman who was supervising the other child or the child himself.

I'm trying to decide whether or not I say something to my sister. My sister's ILs are very vocal about how they feel about certain groups in front of her children. My sister herself does not agree with their opinions (or at least has expressed that to me) but she does nothing to stop it. I feel like she should know that the things that are said around J are clearly influencing him and that he doesn't have the maturity or social skills to filter this information or to know what's appropriate. I feel bad because I think they're setting him up for failure by being so vocal about their beliefs and arming him with information (or misinformation in many cases) that he doesn't know how to handle. He's a tad socially awkward as it is (as if you can't tell from the bits of conversation DH overheard!) and, while this child seemed to just ignore his rude comments, others may not.

What would you do?

ETA - I'm just trying to figure out if telling her could RESOLVE or ACCOMPLISH anything and I guess that all depends on how she handles it. I would hate for J to be *in trouble* and would hope that my sister would address this with her ILs but I obviously don't have any control over what she does with the information, KWIM?
 

lucyandroger

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Yes, I would tell your sister what happened. You can''t control what she does with this information but at least you will know that she is aware of the situation. She may think that J is still too young to understand what they''re talking about or maybe she doesn''t even know that they talk like that in front of him.

My SIL re-told a joke to me last year and the punch line was a racial slur. I happen to be half that race....yup. My brother is a half-brother so he is not that race. When she saw the look on my face, she immediately realized what she had done and apologized all night long also swearing that she was not a racist. I didn''t say anything to my brother about it - she was clearly mortified and it''s not like he''s her parent. BUT if my sweet little niece (who is only a baby now) ever says anything to suggest that my SIL speaks like that in front of her, I will definitely let my brother know.
 

swingirl

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Why was it rude for an 11 year old to talk about Abraham Lincoln and slavery? This is something they learn in history class and kids are going to talk about the things they learn. I think you are overreacting. I think the boys were having a conversation which DH only heard part of. Just like any conversation if you only hear a snippet you really don''t know what was said. If it was rude the other boy would have left or popped him one. Since neither happened I would say leave it alone.

IMO I think it was quite a good conversation for the boys to have. It got the 11 year old a chance to meet an AA boy who he liked enough to play with and talk to. It might have taught both boys something about prejudices.

When you have you own children you''ll be able to raise them any way you want but you can''t tell others how do it.
 

Puppmom

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Thanks for your insight.

Lucy, I''ve had the same experience with people using slurs around me not realizing my background. Or, on the other hand, my DH and I have a last name that confuses people. They often think we''re a specific background that we''re not so they''re really careful what they say about that background around us.
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Swingirl, I don''t think it''s at all unhealthy for children to discuss race and, you''re right, DH did only hear part of the conversation. My concern was more the part where he said all of the African American kids at his school are snobs. The slavery part was kind of weird and the context is obviously unclear. Knowing what I do about the things that my sister''s ILs say around my nephews, it concerns me. I do have a child of my own and, if I overheard the same thing from her, I would talk to her to attempt to determine the context and talk to her about WHY she had the opinion she expressed to the other child. If I felt as though she was just repeating what she had heard elsewhere, I would ask where she heard it.
 

Prana

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I would definitely say something.

If it were my brother''s kid, I would at least want to make him aware of the situation so that he could be a little more alert about it.

Bringing up Abraham Lincoln freeing slaves is not normal conversation for two 11 year old boys to be having right after meeting for the first time. And given the context under which it was overheard, I really think that it was inappropriate.

Why is the first thing out of this 11 year old boys mouth ''I don''t like the AA at my school because they are snobs.'' Right off the bat, this child is stereotyping based off skin color, and I think that should be nipped in the bud.
 

missy

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I absolutely think you should tell your sister of this incident. It is not in your control obviously what she does with this info but it is necessary to inform her so hopefully she has a chat with your nephew. The problem is that prejudices are perpetuated from generation to generation and though we have certainly progressed as a nation we still have a long way to go regarding stereotypes and prejudices based on skin color and religion sadly.

I am Jewish and my dh is Catholic (or as he likes to say recovering catholic LOL) and I cannot tell you the racist things I hear all the time when people don''t realize I am Jewish. It''s hard to believe this stuff goes on in this day and age but it does. Often the people making prejudicial comments don''t even realize they are racist comments which in a way is even worse.
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Sorry you are in this position but at least sharing this with your sister doesn''t make you part of the problem, kwim?
 

Circe

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Definitely say something. I was raised by parents who have somewhat, ah, outmoded views, but they had the common sense and decency not to spout off about it in front of me when I was an impressionable child (the fights we had once I was a teenager, on the other hand, were epic). If your sister''s in-laws are influencing the kids negatively, she needs to know for the kids sake, so she can counter their opinions. And, even if your nephew is guilty of nothing more than tactlessness, maybe that''d be a good thing to have a chat about (i.e., little J., we do *not* generalize about racial groups! or make random other people of their race into their spokespeople!). I don''t think your nephew should be in trouble, necessarily, but I think it could *turn into* trouble if it''s not nipped in the bud, KWIM?
 

brazen_irish_hussy

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I would say something. If it were you and your child, you would want someone to say something. For all you know, this may be the kick in the pants she needs to address this. They recently did a study where they asked preschoolers about what they thought about a person based on their skin color and it was not good. What was most heart breaking to me though, was watching footage of it. The parents watched while the kids were asked questions and they were so bothered by this, many cried. They had absolutely no idea that was how their kids felt or that it was something they needed to address.
 

Prana

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Date: 6/28/2010 8:16:18 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I would say something. If it were you and your child, you would want someone to say something. For all you know, this may be the kick in the pants she needs to address this. They recently did a study where they asked preschoolers about what they thought about a person based on their skin color and it was not good. What was most heart breaking to me though, was watching footage of it. The parents watched while the kids were asked questions and they were so bothered by this, many cried. They had absolutely no idea that was how their kids felt or that it was something they needed to address.

I saw this study as well, and I was a little shocked by the results as well.
 

Maria D

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I''m with swingirl, I think you''re overreacting. Bottom line is he found a kid to hang out with at the park and, in his own awkward way, got along with him. I don''t even see it as making sweeping generalizations based on race. He doesn''t like the AA kids *at his school* because he thinks they are better athletes and snobs. Well, this is how I felt about the jocks at my school when I was his age. I''ve since overcome that prejudice.

IMO, if you do tell your sister it should be more of a "hey, get this funny awkward conversation DH overheard when he was watching the kids" rather than an indictment of her in-laws. And do you really expect much from your sister anyway? She''s comfortable having her inexperienced BIL watch her 3 kids because their FATHER refused to. She''s got more pressing problems than her in-laws!
 

phoenixgirl

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If these kids were discussing whether snob was an accurate stereotype for the African American kids at school or whether they thought slavery was an abomination (in 11 year old terms), it kind of sounds to me like they were connecting on some level. Yeah, the slavery comment was painful, but it sounds like your nephew was just trying to reassure his new friend that there wasn''t any weirdness between them, which of course was the actual source of any weirdness when this other boy was so gracious in extending an invitation to play . . . My point is, it sounds to me like your nephew has been trying to challenge the in-laws'' world view in his own way even though their influence is obvious. The slavery comment was weird, but the snobbery comment was pretty par for the course with what I hear at school from kids of all races when talking about other kids at school (not necessarily relating to race . . . usually categorized by what kids "do" -- band, youth group, party, football, etc. -- yes, it''s stereotyping, but that''s what you do when you are developing critical thinking skills but are still in that stage where you see the world in black and white and no shades of grey . . . no pun intended!).

I don''t think discussing race with a friend of a different race should be taboo . . . he should just be told why the things he said could be offensive. From my experience as a teacher (of an elective class where students could bond and be themselves), I''ll say that making fun of differences (in what can seem like really offensive ways to grown-ups) seems to be a way that kids can connect and become real friends who aren''t afraid to address the fact that our fears and stereotypes and expectations can keep a relationship from being truly intimate.

I do think a parent should direct and offer guidance, so if I were your SIL, I''d probably just assure him that I know he didn''t mean anything by it, but that bringing up slavery at all might make it sound like you think it''s up for debate whether or not it was a good thing, and obviously slavery is just plain evil.
 

Dreamer_D

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Date: 6/28/2010 1:22:55 PM
Author: swingirl
Why was it rude for an 11 year old to talk about Abraham Lincoln and slavery? This is something they learn in history class and kids are going to talk about the things they learn. I think you are overreacting. I think the boys were having a conversation which DH only heard part of. Just like any conversation if you only hear a snippet you really don''t know what was said. If it was rude the other boy would have left or popped him one. Since neither happened I would say leave it alone.

IMO I think it was quite a good conversation for the boys to have. It got the 11 year old a chance to meet an AA boy who he liked enough to play with and talk to. It might have taught both boys something about prejudices.

When you have you own children you''ll be able to raise them any way you want but you can''t tell others how do it.
This was my instinct too. It is ok to talk about race, and at the least it sounds like what your nephew said was positive and open. He was not being racist I don''t think, though without hearing the rest of the conversation and the context it is hard to know. How did the other boy react? Did he seem upset?

Kids are a lot more direct abotu things than adults are. It is hard for adults to talk about race because of fear of appearing racist if the issue is even mentioned. But better to talk about it in a positive way than to cencor one''s self. Self-censorship is actually a major strain on cross-racial interactions and is a major reason why people of different races do not spend more time together -- it is too tiring and stressful. Social psychologists have found this.
 

janinegirly

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I agree w/DD. This conversation would make my ears perk up but I would not be mortified. Nothing blatantly offensive was said, no slurs,etc. Kids are sponges and learning/expressing thoughts about the world around them. It''s healthy to talk and express although yes a fair amount may be from what they are hearing at home. Still, we cannot censor kids'' bubble to the point that they will not have the tools to function later on (I''m thinking of another thread about contests now awarding all kids rather than defining a "winner").

However I would mention it to my sister--more as a point of interest than out of concern. My sister and I are close and talk about everything anyway.
 

Indylady

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Date: 6/28/2010 8:16:18 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I would say something. If it were you and your child, you would want someone to say something. For all you know, this may be the kick in the pants she needs to address this. They recently did a study where they asked preschoolers about what they thought about a person based on their skin color and it was not good. What was most heart breaking to me though, was watching footage of it. The parents watched while the kids were asked questions and they were so bothered by this, many cried. They had absolutely no idea that was how their kids felt or that it was something they needed to address.
Same. Like another poster said, children can be like sponges, soaking up information from many places. I think it would be kind to talk to your sister about the situation. Childhood interactions are often awkward, but a parent to child heart to heart never hurts and might be good for your nephew if in fact his conversation that day stemmed from his grandparents and their vocal opinions on racial issues.
 

Puppmom

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Thanks everyone for all of your input!

DD, by all indications, the other boy did not seem upset but his caregiver, who also seemed to overhear, did seem annoyed. DH said had he not overheard the conversation itself, he would not have thought anything other normal kid-playground banter was occurring. You make a good point - at the moment, DH was probably more worried about how it made HIM look and was just plain embarrassed.

Phoenixgirl, my sister is a teacher so I''m guessing she''s encountered a lot of the same things you have and will handle this with a lot of sensitivity and understanding that my nephew didn''t really mean anything negative.

Maria, I hear what you''re saying, it''s not up to me what she does with the info and I have no plans to mention the ILs. That''s not a surprise to her. I feel like I would want a head''s up so that''s why I''ve considered telling her. And, she definitely probably has bigger fish to fry!

Circe, my parents are a little *old school* in this sense too. Fortunately for us, they are considerate enough to keep it to themselves around DD.

I''ve decided I''m going to tell my sister. If I''m overreacting, she can decide that. We have a good relationship and she''ll let me know if I''m out of line.
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