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Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images?

N

nucleon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
33
Hi,

I would like to start by thanking everyone at PS forum for helping me with my diamond education. I have learned a lot and still learning every day while on my quest to buy an engagement diamond.

I saw a few diamonds that got my attention on BN, with GIA certificate 3 x EX, < 2.0 HCA score but BN was unable to provide either Ideal Scope or ASET images as it's not a BN Signature Cut diamond. The only additional image they were able to provide is a photo of the diamond attached below. My question is, would you feel comfortable buying with the available information?

color G
clarity VVS1
depth 62.3%
table 55%
crown angle 34.5
pavilion angle 40.8
faint fluorescence

Thank you again!

bn.jpg
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

picture is fine, numbers are really safe, so I wouldn't need an IS.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Looks like a beautiful stone.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

The stone looks beautiful, with the Certificate GIA and G/VVS1 quality and triple Excellent I think I would buy the stone
without looking at the Ideal Scope or ASET however because BN does not give free return shipping (Just in case if you do not like the stone) I would not buy this stone from BN, I would prefer buying from B2C Jewels or any other company who gives free return shipping.
Have you considered buying from different online store?
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Beautiful stone, i would personally not buy a stone without any ideal scope or aset images online.

Other PS vendors provide this for free & with some really good policies.

In my experience ( not much, i know :) ). All the other vendors provide these imagines and sometimes much more!

E.g. GOG provides you with a Sarin Report, ideal scope pictures, light performance metrics even though it's not their "Superior" Cut Range.
IDJ would provide you with ideal scope images and a magnified picture of your diamond plus a video if you request for it...

WF & BG are also some good options!
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Hi there,

This thread is very timely because I have just upgraded my Blue Nile Signature studs to much larger, higher colour studs from the Ideal line. They just arrived yesterday.

With the original Signature studs I felt safe as they were guaranteed super-ideal - and actually, I didn't know about Pricescope.

With the upgrade (from 0.68 ctw to 1.12) I realised that the Signatures carried a huge premium and I could get so much more from the Ideal line. My BIG question was, will they be less sparkly? I didn't want to lose on cut, but there were no images. I really agonised.

Using the HCA and the experts on Pricescope to guide you, I can confirm that it's totally possible to pick an Ideal stone and get exactly the same amount of sparkle as you get from the Signature line, without having further images. Some stones from the Ideal range score poorly on the HCA, so you have to do more research to get a really good one. My stones were Si2 but in those cases, Blue Nile does consult with the "vault" to get confirmation that they are eyeclean. They are honest about this; there was another pair that I really wanted but they came back as "not eye clean".

Blue Nile's business model is totally different from the PS vendors such as GOG, BGD, WF, etc. Blue Nile diamonds are not in-house; the inventory is virtual and the stones are held by partner organisations, who they rather hilariously refer to as "the vault". That's why they don't have photos. There is a big advantage in this model: the diamonds tend to be cheaper - and also, there is more choice. I have had some fabulous diamond deals on BN. And I have returned lots of things to them - there is never any trouble getting your money back, and their customer service is fabulous.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

This.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I generally only buy from vendors who will provide a magnified photo of the stone and an idealscope image.

This stone looks good and is probably fine, though. But I would suggest that G VS1 is going to be extremely clean and will save you some money if there are any stones with that combination.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Yes, I would buy without seeing a picture if the diamond's numbers fell into a pretty strict range which yours do.
The price would have to make it worthwhile to order without pictures though.

They're return policy is good if there is an issue.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

About the pictures, I also think it depends how much you know about diamonds and how avid a consumer of diamonds you are. Had I had ASET images, Sarin, Idealscope etc I would not have been able to interpret them. I would have had to post them on PS. If you are someone who knows a TREMENDOUS amount about the cut of diamonds etc then you will probably want images in order to do analysis to your own standards of knowledge. But if you are, like me, more of a diamond lover than connoisseur, then going by the numbers, HCA, and the PS experts' opinions would serve you pretty well. It has worked for me. I really feel the images are more necessary for people who have a very high level of knowledge.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Thank you for all the feedback!

I have looked at other online retailers including WF, BG, JA and GOG but I have not come across one with similar color, clarity or HCA < 2.0 for less. Like Smith1942 pointed out, a few weeks ago I didn't even know what Ideal Scope, ASET or Sarin were. I have looked at online tutorials of Ideal Scope and ASET but to be honest I am still not sure what exactly to look for other than red is good, white (ideal scope), green (ASET) are areas of less light return.

I know HCA is used to weed out poor performing diamonds but would it be safe to assume that a diamond with a HCA score < 2 would have good light performance even without Ideal Scope or ASET images? My fiancee wants me to pick the diamond (I gave her a placeholder ring when I proposed) and I think she will be happy with anything that doesn't look bad visually.

Kind of torn because the deal can be even better if I can get one of those 10% off Blue Nile coupons that seem to surface every now and then.

Thank you again!
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Hi, it's a better idea to post the numbers on here as well as the HCA - like you did - and as the experts have said that the numbers look very good, plus it's under 2.0 on the HCA, I really think you're all set.

By the way, the 10% off coupons with Blue Nile don't apply to Build Your Own settings or to loose diamonds. I know, I tried.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I would also want to know the mm for the actual size of the stone but on a RB it's easier to buy without an ideal-scope image. Although, I would personally prefer the IS image along with the picture. The good thing is that BN does have an easy return policy. I would definitely take it to an appraiser that will be able to show you the images right away after you receive the diamond.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

+1 on what Kathness said. The stone does look beautiful though.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Yes, I would. BN seems to have the best prices around.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I would under the following conditions:
1) it's a round with GIA XXX/AGS0 light performance and HCA<2 or an AGS0 princess
2) Clarity is VS2 or higher (likely to be eye-clean)
3) Price is right
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Laila619|1365125044|3420512 said:
Yes, I would. BN seems to have the best prices around.
Click to expand...
really,since when?? :confused:
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I have to say, I have found that to be true. OK, I haven't technically done rigorous comparison shopping so I can't get really firm about it, but when I have bought diamonds or indeed other pieces of jewellery, BN often seems to come out cheapest.

Someone today posted a stone from WF. It wasn't an ACA but Expert Selection, and it was G, 0.60, Si2, costing over $2,000. I've just got two Blue Nile diamonds for a stud upgrade, 0.56 each, eyeclean Si2, Ideal cut with 1.4 and 1.8 on the HCA - and GIA D. One diamond was approx $1350 and the other was $1580. Much cheaper than WF or BGD.

It does seem that BGD, in particular, is often the most expensive option, with WF not far behind.

I have done a fair amount of surfing and BN does seem to have some amazing deals. Since they are a drop-shipper with a virtual inventory, with only a small proportion of stones in-house (Sig line), wouldn't it make sense that the diamonds can be cheaper there? Not always, granted, not at all. They have their eye-watering prices like everyone else. But if you watch their inventory over a period of time, it's my experience that you can SCORE, whereas it seems that there are no such outstanding bargains ever to be had with WF and BGD - their prices seem to be pretty controlled. I mean, my two D diamonds at BN were just $2856 a couple of weeks ago. Even on Blue Nile's website, you can't find anything like that right now.

They do have a pair of diamonds 1.20 ctw, both Si2, G/H, 2.0 and 1.1 HCA for $2860. Like the pair I got, that is an AMAZING price, and I don't think you would find a pair like that at BGD or WF. BN would of course have to confirm that they are eyeclean, as they did with my own (and they are).

BN also has some very reasonably priced settings for both rings and earrings around the $250 mark, which you won't find at the PS vendors.

I own six BGD and WF pieces, which I think are so beautiful. I have nothing against them. But I have been a customer of BN for a long time and I think they are absolutely marvellous. They once sized and shipped overnight to me a $40 silver bracelet, and from time of purchase to holding it in my hands was a mere 16 hours, Seattle to Boston, with the shipping and alteration completely free. I realise they're not a PS vendor but we are supposed to be independent and in my opinion BN is a class act with unbeatable customer service and some really good prices.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Smith1942|1365129393|3420593 said:
.

It does seem that BGD, in particular, is often the most expensive option, with WF not far behind.

I have done a fair amount of surfing and BN does seem to have some amazing deals. Since they are a drop-shipper with a virtual inventory, with only a small proportion of stones in-house (Sig line), wouldn't it make sense that the diamonds can be cheaper there? Not always, granted, not at all. They have their eye-watering prices like everyone else. But if you watch their inventory over a period of time, it's my experience that you can SCORE, whereas it seems that there are no such outstanding bargains ever to be had with WF and BGD - their prices seem to be pretty controlled. I mean, my two D diamonds at BN were just $2856 a couple of weeks ago. Even on Blue Nile's website, you can't find anything like that right now.
Click to expand...
are they true H&A stones?
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I'm not sure, but they have all the favoured proportions like pav angle under 41 combined with the correct crown angles and depth percentages to score around 1 on the HCA. Here: http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds/signature-ideal-diamonds/signature-diamond-education

Ah ha! They ARE hearts and arrows! See this link - it says all the Sigs are H&A and they have actually put a table here with the Signature proportions. I do believe these are the equivalent of BGD's Sig line. However, none of the stones I was talking about above are from the premium lines, including the WF one. Those diamonds I talked about are all from the Ideal line, where you have to do more research. My old studs were Sigs and my new ones have great HCA scores and proportions, and are every bit as sparkly as my old Sigs and indeed as sparkly as Brian's Signature melee in my two DBTY BGD bracelets and my BGD DBTY necklace. So I came to the conclusion that you can get an Ideal Blue Nile diamond every bit as good as the Sig without paying the Sig premium, and I guess that's true of other vendors and their premium lines, too. You just have to do more research. I think the premium lines are there so that people who are busy or not passionate about the purchase can just buy the best, no questions asked, and also so that high net worth individuals have something special to buy. It's good marketing!

http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-round-diamonds
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

I posted a reply but it disappeared. Let's try again :confused:

Smith1942:
You are right and I was mistaken. The 10% discount does not apply to loose diamonds or build your own, but every now and then there is $100 off $1000 or over diamonds. There was just one recently that expired at the end of March 2013.

I found another similar diamond on BN
1.26 cts
G,
but VVS2
depth % 61.1, table % 59.0,
crown angle 34.0, pavilion angle 41.0
HCA 1.8
but slightly over $1000 more.

The only significant difference I can see is in the measurements:
6.96 x 6.93 x 4.25 mm vs 6.91 x 6.89 x 4.30 mm (the original diamond I was looking at).

I phoned BN and the lady I spoke to said that the measurement difference is negligible that I would be better off saving the money and getting the first one. I ended up putting it on hold and will have until this weekend to think about it.

jstarfireb:
it's 1.26 cts, G, VVS1, GIA XXX HCA 1.4 (excellent for light return, fire and scintillation, very good for spread), C$11,248. Is this a good price?

Thank you.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

WHAT? There was a $100 off $1000 coupon? I just spent $1600 with them in March on loose diamonds for my stud upgrade! :angryfire:

Maybe it doesn't apply to upgrades because there is a minimum spend. Calm yourself, Smith, calmmmmmmm......Ommmmm.....

I agree with the SA that you would be spending $1000 for no visible benefit.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Maybe it was only for the Canadian website. One thing I don't like about BN, as pointed out above, is that the customer would have to pay for return shipping/insurance while other vendors will cover that. I guess that's another way they reduce the cost of operating their business.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Hang on a minute, that isn't correct about free returns from other vendors. Not only does Brian Gavin NOT offer free returns, if you return something, he deducts the original shipping charge - supposedly free - from your refund! So even the original shipping is only free if you don't return the item. If you do return the item, you pay return shipping and insurance PLUS the original shipping costs! Wow. I've always said that Brian is a phenomenal businessman...and also his return period is only 15 days where Blue Nile's is 30 days.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/need-help-faq/ Look under "Inspection Period and Return" and then "How to Return My Purchase."
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Whiteflash also does NOT offer free returns:

http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/10-day-money-back.htm

Like Blue Nile, they give you an ID number (Return Authorization Number) to write on your package and details of how to ship. But WF, BGD and Blue Nile are all the same: You ship the item via the most secure method which is USPS Registered, and you pay the full cost of shipping and insurance. This method is under lock and key all the time and insures up to 25k, whereas FedEx only insures up to $500 for consumers with no business account. So they're all the same, except Brian who also has the cheek to deduct what the original shipping cost him!!!

FYI, I shipped my old studs back for upgrade. I insured them for $1600 and it cost $21.00 total incl. insurance, shipping coast-to-coast.

And the WF 30-day money back only applies to their premium line, otherwise it's 10 days.

I can't find anything on GOG's website about returns or money back at all. You'd think it would be covered in the FAQs, but I couldn't find it.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Wow, you are right again! I did not know that about BG and their 15-day inspection policy but I think WF and JA do offer free return shipping. I initially looked at B2C but they only offer free domestic US shipping and they charge quite a bit to ship to Canada.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Check out the Whiteflash link I posted above - they do not offer free return shipping. Not only that, near the bottom of the linked page it says this: "Your refund will consist of the purchase price LESS our shipping cost." Good Lord, they're all at it! I have returned about 25 items to Blue Nile over the years and they wouldn't dream of taking away the original free shipping!
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Now, James Allen has the best return policy: 60 days to decide and they DO offer free return shipping, and they also don't snatch the original free shipping away from you in a huff! Sorry, but that seems very ill-willed of BGD and WF. At least you tried their goods. New customers are a holy grail.

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/about-us/risk-free-retail.html

Sadly, OP, the free returns only apply within the US!
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

Thank you for the information! I stand corrected. It shows that you have to read the fine prints on everything. It looks like JA has the best return policy - 60 day returns, they cover return shipping / insurance cost, no deduction of initial shipping fee. BN seems next best as they don't deduct their initial shipping charge from your refund.
 
Re: Would you buy from BN without Ideal Scope or ASET images

But as I said above, the JA free shipping only applies within the States, not Canada! Bad luck, mate! I don't think you're going to be getting your free returns! Your stone on hold looks amazing though - I bet there will be no need to return it.
 
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