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would like some opinions

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mpan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
5
Hi everybody,

Could I have your opinion on these two diamonds? Both have AGS certs. I''m having trouble on deciding which one...

shape: A Cut Above H&A
Carat: 0.838
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Measurements: 6.02-6.06x3.73
Table%: 57
Depth%: 61.8
Crown Angle: 34.3
Crown%: 14.6
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion%: 43
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Faceted 1.2% to 1.7%
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
$3974

Here''s the other:
shape: A Cut Above H&A
Carat: 0.854
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Measurements: 6.12-6.14x3.73
Table%: 57
Depth%: 60.8
Crown Angle: 34.1
Crown%: 14.2
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion%: 43.1
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Faceted 1.0% to 1.6%
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
$4324

To me, both seem like good quality diamonds for the price, but I''d like some other opinions. Do you think the price is right

for these?

This is a great forum by the way! Thanks for your time and help!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Hmmmmm...well this sure is a tough decision!! You chose two excellent stones and now want to know which is best?

Okay well my two cents is that I'd choose the second one. Why? Here are my reasons...

1) The HCA score on the first one is 1.6 EX EX VG VG. Very good BUT not as good as the second one which was 1.3 EX EX EX VG. One more EX is always good in my eyes!


2) The color is better. It's splitting hairs at this point, but in conjunction with the other two reasons, it's a 3rd reason.

3) The ctw of the second is better. It's minimal, but its there, you will notice it slightly in the diameter of the stone. There will be a very slight visual difference in the stones IMO with the 2nd one looking a tad bigger.

The price difference is only a few hundred. You really are choosing between two excellent stones here as the ACA series are so superideal that I doubt you could tell the difference between these two stones with your naked eye.

I think you are fine with either one! But if I had to make a choice, I'd choose the second one for the reasons listed above. However, if you are strapped on funds and the few hundred makes a huge difference, the first stone would be absolutely fine I am sure. Either way....good job.

Congrats & good luck! Post pictures when you get the final winner.
 

mpan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
5
Thanks for the feedback Mara!! I will probably go with the second one, but I feel much more comfortable now if I did choose the first one. I might end up using that extra 300 bucks to buy my girlfriend a puppy to make sure she says yes!

A couple of more questions. Does whiteflash negotiate price at all or is what you see is what you get? Do they ever throw in the band with it?

And also, do you recommend getting an independent appraiser for the diamond? I believe on the website they say they get an independent appraiser to inspect the diamonds when they get them. Is it worth getting it appraised again or should I trust that verification?

Thanks again for your time and help.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Oooh a puppy! Tie the ring around the puppy's neck. Or is that too cliche?


WhiteFlash will negotiate somewhat to fit your budget from what I have heard, though I do not have firsthand knowledge myself.

When you say 'throw in the band', do you mean ering or the wedding band? They have a pretty good selection of the basic solitaires and wedding bands...I don't know if they would throw it in there, but maybe you can try to sweet talk them during the negotiations. However, many online vendors operate on a thin profit margin to begin with in order to stay competitive, so keep that in mind as you negotiate. I know they have a few $200 solitaires and similar if you want to go very simple and stay in budget.

I would recommend and independent appraisal but since the nature of the cut of the ACA stones is branded superideal, I personally think their idealscope images and H&A images speak for themselves. Do they give you a H&A image viewer when you buy? Then you can check them out yourself!

Anyway, if you can find an independent appraiser in your area that is not too pricey, I would highly recommend getting that 2nd opinion, which also will come in handy if you plan to insure your new toy. Chances are they will say you got a knockout of a stone, but it always helps to have an expert pair of eyes look at things, esp because you will probably open the box and be blinded by the beauty. Hee Hee. If an independent appraiser does not fit your budget, find a reputable jewelry store (e.g. not a maul jeweler or a chain) that has a GIA gemologist or similar on staff that will look at it quickly for a smaller fee. There are smaller boutique stores where the people will still treat you well even if you did not buy your stone from them..and will give you an honest opinion. However, again..this is tricky to find, hence the whole ease of use with the independent appraiser. They work for you.

Good luck!!


(on a side note...boy the board is quiet tonite. Do I feel like a big loser for being home on a Friday night or what?
It's okay...I'm wedding planning. Much more important than going out to have fun!)
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
Do I feel like a big loser for being home on a Friday night or what?
-----------

I'm heading up that loser's club, Mara. Worked till 9pm and then am using PriceScope for my Friday night entertainment.

Is that pathetic or what!?

Rich, needs a life...
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
----
I'm heading up that loser's club, Mara. Worked till 9pm and then am using PriceScope for my Friday night entertainment
----

Rich...as we both so evidently know...Pscope is the only way on a Friday night to entertain yourself. Well online that is. Errrr...well you know what I mean.


Bedtime for me!
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
This will probably confuse you more. HCA as we know is one tool at our disposal. Fortunately, Dave Atlas created another tool that we can use to evaluate the cut grading as well.

Go to: www.gemappraisers.com and select the DIY CUT GRADING.

Here's what I found out.

The first diamond 0.838ct, (if I enter medium to medium girdle thickness) returns a 1A grade.

The second diamond 0.854ct, returns a 1B grade because the crown angle and crown height of 34.1 and 14.2 falls out of the ideal values of 34.3-34.7 for angle and 14.3-16.3 for height.

Another thing is, I am not sure how to select the girdle thickness. Often time I find it confusing because the GIA or Sarin report might say it is a thin to medium faceted and show values like 1.2%-1.7% for example. But if you look at the DIY CUT GRADING TOOL footer, for cut 1A, the girdle thickness must be medium and at 5%. Anything less than 2% falls under "Below Average" Class 4A 4B.

Perhaps Dave Atlas can shed some light on this girdle issue.

On thing that surprises me is by using D. Atlas DIY tool, I've come to find out almost all the diamonds I've been considering so far will come up with a 1B rating on the crown angle. Sure, the total grade is still 1A but I thought if I take any diamonds from the vendors here which are (I'm not targeting specific vendors here - just using names which I find mentioned a lot) ACA - A CUT ABOVE, SUPERBCERT and as highly recommended GOG, I find most of the stones that interests me showed up as 1B on the crown angle criteria and often time 1B on the crown height %.

I thought their merchandise were all above ideal cuts.

Now, to throw in another twist. I was looking at Blue Nile also. I looked up their "Blue Nile Signature" diamonds and for those that interests me, most came with an AGSL cert. So, I was able to get the crown and pavillion info. Surprisingly the ones I was looking at, they all came back 1A on each criteria.

But for a comparable stone, they were ~ 10% more expensive.
 

caratgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
634
This is to Jlim (sorry to the original poster for my additional hijacking
), but you have some interesting comments on your post here. I have also discovered that most of what I thought were the better stones from the really good vendors don't make the 1A cut grade! I also posted twice regarding the girdle %, and have received no comment or reply.

Maybe someone other than David Atlas can reply to this, since he has probably just overlooked our posts.
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324
To me, both seem like good quality diamonds for the price, but I'd like some other opinions. Do you think the price is right


for these?

This is a great forum by the way! Thanks for your time and help!----------------
HI - Both diamonds are priced competitively compared to other ideal cut H&A's stones which fall in the same color and clarity ranges. You will not be able to detect the 1 shade in color difference so save yourself a little cash and buy that puppy!


-Josh In SItka
 

mpan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
5
Mara, that was my plan exactly! I know it's cliche, but I don't think she'll be able to say no to a puppy
Also, I meant getting an engagement ring. I guess that'll be part of my negotiation with whiteflash. From what I understand they are pretty easy to work with so I'll have to see what they say.

Thanks for being my voice of reason scorpion. That is probably what I should do. I'm pretty sure she'd be happy with either diamond and that would help me save some money.

One more favor, is it possible for anyone to give me a DiamCalc report if anyone has time? I'd like to see a simulated image if possible....

Thanks!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Bump to get you back up to the top.

If you don't get a reply on the DiamCalc's, you might try reposting with DiamCalc in the thread title. White Flash posts a link to the Sarin reports on most of their ACA's. The link is lower down on the page, titled Sarin Technologies. Just click there and you'll get the Sarin report. You could include the links in your request. You'll get more accurate pics with the minor facet angles included.
 

slmulkey

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
133
I love the puppy idea, I wish my husband had done that when he proposed. We are waiting to get one until we buy a house. He pacifies me by buying me puppy stuffed animals...somehow its not quite the same. Be sure to post pictures of the puppy (and the ring) when you are done.

Either diamond sounds good to me and will probably look quite similar. I'd go for the second one as it is a little bigger, but not if it means losing the cash to buy the dog
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Yes I like the puppy idea too...even if it is cliche, its still really cute


Have to say though....be cautious...because its my opinion that a pet is a very personal thing. I am in the process of hunting for a dog and have been for the last 6 months, but it's a type of dog I had when I was young...and it's not something that someone else can buy for me because there is alot more to owning a pet than just having it as a cute proposal idea. There is tempermant with the general type of dog you get, as well as personality of the dog itself meshed with you and your fiance-to-be. I would love the idea of someone getting me my dog as a gift, but on the other hand it just isn't practical.

Also, I'm sure you know this but it's a huge commitment to get a pet, and many rescue facilities often deal with dogs that are turned in when the owner no longer wants to care for them because they didn't realize the commitment they were making to that animal, for its lifetime. It's very common that pets are given as proposal, Xmas or V-Day gifts, and pet rescue centers always report a rise in animals turned in shortly thereafter. Especially animals that are 'popular' for the time...an example is one of my friends has a Weimeraner, which is the gorgeous soft brown dog with blue eyes that you see in alot of photographs and cards nowadays. For a few years they were very popular, and people lined up to buy the puppies as they are adorable (as most puppies are!). The rescue centers got those dogs back in droves. People love the striking look of the Weimeraner, but they are very high strung and sensitive dogs. People didn't realize what they were signing up for and at least did the right thing by taking the animal to a rescue center instead of the pound or just abandoning it. Personally I adore my friend's dog, but I could never own her. She is way too high strung and hyper, and also has a very sensitive digestive system which I hear is fairly typical of these animals. Part of it is the way my friend treats her (babies her!) that enables the hyper, spoiled behavior...but you get my drift
It just pays to do research before purchase. A dog that you want to be mellow with and relax on the couch with may not be the type of dog that you are drawn to. Or vice versa for an active dog. But you may not know that until you get it home unless you do the research beforehand.

Anyhow don't want to rain on your parade nor preach up a storm, maybe getting a pet or dog is something you have discussed already with your fiance-to-be and you just want to hasten along the process and make it official with the proposal, but if you have not already thought of the above...figured I'd mention it!

Good luck!
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 5/12/2003 1:36:50 AM Mara wrote:

Yes I like the puppy idea too...even if it is cliche, its still really cute


Have to say though....be cautious...because its my opinion that a pet is a very personal thing. I am in the process of hunting for a dog and have been for the last 6 months, but it's a type of dog I had when I was young...and it's not something that someone else can buy for me because there is alot more to owning a pet than just having it as a cute proposal idea. There is tempermant with the general type of dog you get, as well as personality of the dog itself meshed with you and your fiance-to-be. I would love the idea of someone getting me my dog as a gift, but on the other hand it just isn't practical.

Also, I'm sure you know this but it's a huge commitment to get a pet, and many rescue facilities often deal with dogs that are turned in when the owner no longer wants to care for them because they didn't realize the commitment they were making to that animal, for its lifetime. It's very common that pets are given as proposal, Xmas or V-Day gifts, and pet rescue centers always report a rise in animals turned in shortly thereafter. Especially animals that are 'popular' for the time...an example is one of my friends has a Weimeraner, which is the gorgeous soft brown dog with blue eyes that you see in alot of photographs and cards nowadays. For a few years they were very popular, and people lined up to buy the puppies as they are adorable (as most puppies are!). The rescue centers got those dogs back in droves. People love the striking look of the Weimeraner, but they are very high strung and sensitive dogs. People didn't realize what they were signing up for and at least did the right thing by taking the animal to a rescue center instead of the pound or just abandoning it. Personally I adore my friend's dog, but I could never own her. She is way too high strung and hyper, and also has a very sensitive digestive system which I hear is fairly typical of these animals. Part of it is the way my friend treats her (babies her!) that enables the hyper, spoiled behavior...but you get my drift
It just pays to do research before purchase. A dog that you want to be mellow with and relax on the couch with may not be the type of dog that you are drawn to. Or vice versa for an active dog. But you may not know that until you get it home unless you do the research beforehand.

Anyhow don't want to rain on your parade nor preach up a storm, maybe getting a pet or dog is something you have discussed already with your fiance-to-be and you just want to hasten along the process and make it official with the proposal, but if you have not already thought of the above...figured I'd mention it!

Good luck!
----------------

Mara, worth mentioning again. Being in rescue for years, you can not preach your sentiment enough. Thanks for presenting your point.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Another thought is a cat. A neat new breed.

I was always a dog person. Grew up with them, but my folks trained/house broke them. Hubby and I have had cats for over 17 years. We took in a couple orphans and couldn't find homes for them. I wouldn't take them to the "pound" as I feared what would happen to them. His "sister" died over 2 years ago. Heart wrenching loss for the entire family as the cats were here before kids came along. But, our "Old Man" is still plunking along.

Even cats can be an investment of time. Our male survived Feline Hepatitis, with lots of love, work, and attention well during a 2-3 month convalescence. Our female was in Chronic Renal Failure at the end. We had to inject fluids under the skin (yuck, shudder now thinking about it), special diet and vitamin supplements, to ease her suffering and prolong her stay with us.

Anyway, I found out about a new breed of cat that is the best of both worlds for dog and cat lovers. It's called the American Bob Tail. They come in various breed patterns, like Himalayan, Tabby, etc. They are a feral, domesticated breed. ABT's can be house trained like cats (litter box), but have personalities like dogs. Very affectionate, come when you call their name, love to play and interact with the family. Would love to get one now, but we're afraid "Old Man" would not take to a new "cat" in the house.

Just a thought.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 5/12/2003 10
9:59 AM pqcollectibles wrote:

Our female was in Chronic Renal Failure at the end. We had to inject fluids under the skin (yuck, shudder now thinking about it), special diet and vitamin supplements, to ease her suffering and prolong her stay with us.

----------------
Not to hijack the thread - BTW - either stone sounds nice.

But, renal failure is the way most cats go. After much discussion w/ my vet, the best way to stave it off is to buy cat food appropriate for the age. I've always done this for my dogs. The vet said it is more important to change food for cats.
 

mpan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
5
Thanks for all your feedback on the idea of getting a puppy. It's kind of funny how this thread changed from the diamond to the idea of the puppy
All the responses were all good concerns though.

Actually, if I had a choice I would get a cat! My fiance to be is allergic to cats unfortunately
I understand all of your concerns as I was worried about them as well. I'm a cat person, but she has grown up with dogs all her life. We've discussed the idea of getting the dog quite a bit and have put a good amount of research into it. We are definetely getting a dog (just a matter of when). We know it's not all rosy all the time and that there will be a lot of work involved in raising the puppy, but we both know that we will put the effort into raising the puppy right. By the way, we're probably getting a golden retriever


Also, thanks sharon for the referral to lesley H at whiteflash. I did talk to her today and both the diamonds are available as of now. I plan on giving her an answer tomorrow about which diamond I want. I'm going to repost this on a different thread so I can get a diamondcalc report...

Thanks!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I'm allergic to cats too, definitely a dog lover!!!


Let us know which diamond you select and post pictures when finished.

Also a note on the DiamCalc request, Whiteflash should be able to give you an IdealScope image of either stone as they offer that on their stones, which means that you don't really need the DC simulation after all as it pretty much just simulates what the stone will look like under the IdealScope or a similar light return instrument--but you have the real thing already.

Good luck!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Isn't it the way with some threads here on PS?? Start out on one topic and migrate to another??

You've picked 2 really great diamonds there! I'd have to say I'd lean toward #2 if it doesn't break your budget. The price difference is off set by larger carat weight and higher color rating.

Lesley at White Flash is GEM as well. She was great to work with when I bought my ACA!
 
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