Worried about getting a sapphire that appears darker than ideal once set. Show me your sapphires before and after being set :)

[sheplaysgeetar]

Hello all!
I've been lurking for a bit, but decided I should go ahead and make a post. I'm looking for a larger montana sapphire (around 2 carats or at least 8mm in length oval) to be set in my future engagement ring. Ideally I would like to find a nice teal, blue, aqua (something around there) that isn't too dark or muddy after being set. I've recently sent back 2 stones to Earths Treasury after they were smaller than I had hoped. I'm looking at multiple more right now from a variety of well respected lapidary artists. I'd love a John Dyer or Sennin Esko concave cut but they sell so fast.
I'm open to sapphires from other locations, but a Montana Sapphire would be ideal considering my boyfriend and I have montana sapphire rough that we mined last year that will eventually be cut and put into a wedding band. If my boyfriend and I hadn't already been together for 7 years, and I wasn't so eager to get the whole engagement process going, we would be traveling to montana for as long as it takes to find a big enough piece of rough to cut into a decent sized center stone .
Anyways, sorry for the rambling. I'm nervous to share my current potential stones list here because I would hate to see them snatched up, but I am interested in seeing any sapphires that you have bought and then had set into a setting. I'd like to see how different settings affect different stones. They don't necessarily have to be blue/teal. I understand a variety of factors go into how "dark" a stone looks, but maybe I can get a somewhat decent idea of how "light" or saturated of a sapphire I should aim for.

 

[dk168]

I only have one Sapphire and it is a pink one.

Original stone was sourced by Jeff White during his trip to Tucson 2020, and re-cut by him to remove the window.

The finished stone is a 7.08mm round.

When deciding on how to set it, I knew I wanted a flower cluster design that I lusted for nearly 20 years as that would be my engagement ring of choice should I walk down the aisle again.

I worried about the 4.5mm (lab-grown) diamonds would overwhelm the Sapphire, however, my bench assured me that as the Sapphire was so well cut and sparkly, it would not be an issue.

This is the glamour shot from Jeff:



His video with my round Sapphire next to a cushion Baringo Ruby (pink Sapphire, also mine):

My own photo (very dull day, really did not do it justice!):



Final CAD:



Finished ring and I love it - the Sapphire beams across the room, however, I am kind of bias!



My own sentiment is that, if the stone is well cut to begin with, then the setting should not diminish its performance once set.

However, I am not an expert and can be wrong.

DK

 

[Joanne10]

Congratulations on your engagement!

I have a small blue sapphire, an experience which made me a bit wary of unset corundum.

The vendor photo was under a lot of light. The colour in the photo was the perfect one, IF IT HAD BEEN ALREADY SET. I forgot to photograph it unset, but the colour was just a bit too dark for my taste when it arrived, but bearable.

Fast forward to having it set. When I went to pick up the finished jewel, I did not recognise the stone (despite it being the same one), it had gone so dark! I was shocked. All this was pre-Pricescope. I’ve read since that sapphires and rubies darken when set.

In conclusion, my advice would be to go a bit lighter than your ideal, or buy a finished piece, to be certain of what you get. Good luck!

 

[Avondale]

8mm long oval is precisely where a 2ct sapphire will land you. 8x6 is about the standard for an oval. You can have larger, of course, but it will likely be above 2ct.

I have two stones (a sapphire and a ruby) that I've had unset in my hand, and another sapphire of which there are old photos on PS (I bought it here pre-loved). I will show you photos and videos so that you can draw your own conclusions.

Going by it chronologically:

1. 2.11ct. blue sapphire

I don't have many photos of it loose - that was pre-PS times and the obsession to take photos of my gems with intensity similar to the one with which I photograph my cats had not yet manifested.

Loose (excuse the fingerprint):


In its first setting right before the prongs getting closed off on it:


I'm using these two photos because they were both taken with the same phone, under the same lights in the jewellery shop. Neither of them are very good, but you can see the setting didn't really dramatically darken the stone. Maybe because it was dark to begin with.

In addition I can give you a couple of videos - one of the stone unset, and one of it in the ring:

https://imgur.com/aJhgybB

https://imgur.com/Dzc6gVA

2. 1.03 ct. blue sapphire

I bought this one from a lovely PS-er who had upgraded to a similar ring, only the centre stone was three times the size. I'm posting her own photos of the stone loose and after she had it set in a ring.

The photos are taken from these two threads:
Thread 1 (before)
Thread 2 (after)

This sapphire is set into a very open setting - basically just the four prongs keeping it in place. It got the diamond treatment and is sitting high where it can shine. I did an experiment where I used some aluminum foil to wrap it up in order to simulate a more closed off setting. I can say that I definitely see a difference, but it's a small one - small enough that the camera has trouble catching it. I took a video:

https://imgur.com/ZU1fh6y

3. 1.75 ct. ruby

Not blue, but still corundum. Bought this one a year ago, had it set maybe a couple months later. Now this one I have an abundance of photos of, many of which are posted on PS, with two threads dedicated to it.

Loose:

Set in a ring:

In conclusion, I personally haven't noticed much difference in the stone colour upon setting it. What plays a larger role, at least in my experience, is the available light. All the sapphire and ruby I own behave very differently depending on the light.

My advice would be, focus on finding a stone you enjoy in every environment. If it's perfect only when flooded with light in a studio setting, it probably will disappoint you the moment you take it home. You want to like all the different faces it has, regardless of if you're under the bright sun, or at home at dusk.

If you're worried about your sapphire going too dark, just err on the side of a lighter shade (and be mindful as lighter doesn't mean less saturated). It will be bright in sunlight and shift to a darker, but still very pleasant blue in low light.

 

[Rfisher]

If you're worried about your sapphire going too dark, just err on the side of a lighter shade (and be mindful as lighter doesn't mean less saturated).

This!!

@sheplaysgeetar
Do you mind showing us the two you bought/returned from ET?
Aside from the face up being too small - Did you love the color & performance in your specific different lighting environments?

 

[lovedogs]

I would reach out to sennin esko about cutting a concave. He might have available rough and I love his concave designs

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

The Tucson gem show is coming up. You could reach out to Gene @PrecisionGem or Jeff White and see if they are going and can source Montana rough.

 

[dk168]

I bet Jeff W has quite a few Montana roughs in stock without needing to buy more.

However, he can't stop buying roughs, as informed to me when I met him in person last year in Tucson.

DK

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Hello all!
I've been lurking for a bit, but decided I should go ahead and make a post. I'm looking for a larger montana sapphire (around 2 carats or at least 8mm in length oval) to be set in my future engagement ring. Ideally I would like to find a nice teal, blue, aqua (something around there) that isn't too dark or muddy after being set. I've recently sent back 2 stones to Earths Treasury after they were smaller than I had hoped. I'm looking at multiple more right now from a variety of well respected lapidary artists. I'd love a John Dyer or Sennin Esko concave cut but they sell so fast.
I'm open to sapphires from other locations, but a Montana Sapphire would be ideal considering my boyfriend and I have montana sapphire rough that we mined last year that will eventually be cut and put into a wedding band. If my boyfriend and I hadn't already been together for 7 years, and I wasn't so eager to get the whole engagement process going, we would be traveling to montana for as long as it takes to find a big enough piece of rough to cut into a decent sized center stone .
Anyways, sorry for the rambling. I'm nervous to share my current potential stones list here because I would hate to see them snatched up, but I am interested in seeing any sapphires that you have bought and then had set into a setting. I'd like to see how different settings affect different stones. They don't necessarily have to be blue/teal. I understand a variety of factors go into how "dark" a stone looks, but maybe I can get a somewhat decent idea of how "light" or saturated of a sapphire I should aim for.

This is an interesting topic!

In my experience, it depends a lot on (1) how the stone is cut and (2) how it is set.

In the case of the Jeff White ideal round sapphire, I would not expect it NOT to darken at all. This is one of the advantages of having a well-designed cut.

As with Diamonds, direct light return is simply a matter of how much light is directed back at the eye through the table and crown.

Colored stones, including Yellow or other colored diamonds, are often cut to have less-than-ideal direct light return. They are cut for color retention and diffuse light return.

Tone is lightened by (1) direct light return and (2) light leakage. Tone darkens with (1) extinction and (2) obstruction.

In contrast to Diamonds, Ruby and sapphire are slightly birefringent at every orientation but directly down the C-axis. This make cutting & setting a rather complex affair. The internal path of light in a singly refractive stone is already tortuous. It becomes exponentially more difficult to predict with a crystal structure that is birefringent in certain orientations but not in others.

I don’t want to go too deep down this rabbit hole, but I do want to communicate that the way sapphires and rubies return light is a complex affair.

While you do not need to have an in-depth understanding of this, it is important that the designer does.

Settings can be designed in a way that does darken the stone, which is useful in certain cases. One of the tricks I have used involves creating polished seat that returns diffuse colored light where the loose stone would otherwise show excessive leakage at tilt angles.

If this were done in already dark material, reducing that light leakage *may* darken the stone too much.

If the designer has an opportunity to study the stone, a setting can be designed to allow light to enter from angles other than just the crown and table.

This typically means exposing as much of the girdle and pavilion as possible with thin prongs, and sometimes a higher setting.

There are stones however, depending on the orientation and the cut design, that will neither lighten nor darken no matter how they are set.

The bottom line is to make sure you talk to your designer about their experience with Ruby and Sapphire.

If She or he is experienced with the material, they should be able to design a setting that either preserves or enhances the appearance of the unique stone you are working with.

As far as choosing a stone goes, personally, I tend to fall in love with the hue and saturation more than the tone.

Focus on finding a stone with a spectral hue that seduces you and the rest can usually be sorted out in the design process.

I hope this helps!

 

[sheplaysgeetar]

Hello all!
I've been lurking for a bit, but decided I should go ahead and make a post. I'm looking for a larger montana sapphire (around 2 carats or at least 8mm in length oval) to be set in my future engagement ring. Ideally I would like to find a nice teal, blue, aqua (something around there) that isn't too dark or muddy after being set. I've recently sent back 2 stones to Earths Treasury after they were smaller than I had hoped. I'm looking at multiple more right now from a variety of well respected lapidary artists. I'd love a John Dyer or Sennin Esko concave cut but they sell so fast.
I'm open to sapphires from other locations, but a Montana Sapphire would be ideal considering my boyfriend and I have montana sapphire rough that we mined last year that will eventually be cut and put into a wedding band. If my boyfriend and I hadn't already been together for 7 years, and I wasn't so eager to get the whole engagement process going, we would be traveling to montana for as long as it takes to find a big enough piece of rough to cut into a decent sized center stone .
Anyways, sorry for the rambling. I'm nervous to share my current potential stones list here because I would hate to see them snatched up, but I am interested in seeing any sapphires that you have bought and then had set into a setting. I'd like to see how different settings affect different stones. They don't necessarily have to be blue/teal. I understand a variety of factors go into how "dark" a stone looks, but maybe I can get a somewhat decent idea of how "light" or saturated of a sapphire I should aim for.

Hello all, I really appreciate your replies. Jeff from Earths treasury will be shipping out two stones for me to look at on Monday, but in the meantime I thought I would share the videos that were shared with me by Earths treasury of my potential stones. Earths treasury has been awesome by the way, and if anyone is in the market for a precision cut montana sapphire, I highly reccomend them.

The top stone is unheated, the rest are heated. I am being sent the top stone and the 3rd one down. I do really love the saturated nature of the second one down, and if I didn't mind it being so dark indoors (where I spend the majority of my time, at least now), then I would happily snatch that one up. Let me know what you all think I will post some more pictures/videos once the stones arrive as well.

Outdoor:

Indoor:

Indoor lower lighting: