window... :-(

[mickeyblue42]

So I ordered some sapphires from a vendor that is very well known to this forum

The one,a pear cut, has a massive window in it.

Why was this not disclosed? I have already paid duty and VAT on
The gems.Now what?

 

[JewelFreak]

Did you see photos of it before you bought it? Good photos, I mean -- looking straight down from the top? Did you ask the vendor about the stones before buying? If it's a vendor well known here, it must be someone who would tell you honestly about the sapphires. I'm sure he or she will take them back & you can apply for return of duty, etc. I understand that takes a long time, though. Sorry to say, you're out the shipping cost, however.

You identify yourself as "trade" but seem to have a fair bit to learn, if these stones were for re-sale. Did you buy at retail price or did the vendor give you wholesale cost? Buying at retail won't go well if you are selling them on. In another post you mentioned an opportunity to work for a jeweler -- that sounds like very helpful experience if you wish to go into that business. Good idea to learn as much as possible before spending your money on stock. Nobody's born knowing all this stuff, so take the chance to jump in with early guidance! Good luck!

 

[chrono]

Just because a vendor is well known here does not mean that he/she only sells top colour and well cut stones. It is up to the consumer to do their own homework (decide if it is the right colour, right cut, right clarity, right treatment, right price,...you get the idea). This is why the forum is here - for anyone to ask whether their stone is OK before buying it. If the stone has sufficient depth, you can see whether it can be recut. If not, then I am sorry that you either keep it or return it (and eat the cost of the VAT).

 

[T L]

So I ordered some sapphires from a vendor that is very well known to this forum

The one,a pear cut, has a massive window in it.

Why was this not disclosed? I have already paid duty and VAT on
The gems.Now what?

Did you ask if it had a window?

Did the photo hide the window?

A dealer doesn't have to disclose if it has cutting issues, especially if there's a photo, and dimensions provided. He/she must disclose treatment, and that's about the extent of it, and even then, with sapphires, the truth isn't always fully disclosed on treatments, especially for stones that fall into the ambiguous "heated" territory. One needs to therefore know the right questions to ask before purchasing. I'm sorry you had to learn this the hard way.

 

[mickeyblue42]

Thank you for all the responses

I do not normally trade in gemstones however from time to time I make up smaller/cheaper pieces as they are not easy to source in my part of the world.

I did not ask whether there would be/is a window present. I naively believed that if one is running a 'reputable' website that such an obvious flaw would be commented upon somewhere or at some stage... I dont ask somebody when buying a car whether the handbrake works properly and can I go and park it on a hill stop to test it.

To date with all the suppliers I have dealt with to date are always upfront and transparent. I realise other people see this as optional

Upon revisiting the image of the sapphire I now see that it was angled to the left. School boy error on my side not querying further

You live and you learn

 

[chrono]

Again, I would like to say I'm sorry about your experience but what happened is not unexpected or out of the ordinary. If you are particular about the window, colour accuracy or whatever else, you have to ask prior to the purchase. I also always ask for a straight on picture of the stone (never angled) to get a better assessment of the cut. The only things vendors are expected to be upfront with are the gem type, colour description, carat weight, measurement and treatment. I haven't seen any vendor disclose cut issues and it isn't something to be expected. With cars, everything can be replicated, parts replaced and whatever else to be identical. Gems are made by nature, cut by different people and rarely are 2 identical. They cannot be made to order. You can, in a way, test drive the gem, by using the review/return period offered by the vendor. Unfortunately, where you are, you have to be more cautious due to VAT.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thank you for all the responses

I do not normally trade in gemstones however from time to time I make up smaller/cheaper pieces as they are not easy to source in my part of the world.

I did not ask whether there would be/is a window present. I naively believed that if one is running a 'reputable' website that such an obvious flaw would be commented upon somewhere or at some stage... I dont ask somebody when buying a car whether the handbrake works properly and can I go and park it on a hill stop to test it.

To date with all the suppliers I have dealt with to date are always upfront and transparent. I realise other people see this as optional

Upon revisiting the image of the sapphire I know see that it was angled to the left. School boy error on my side not querying further

You live and you learn

First off, I am sorry this has happened to you - how really disappointing (and potentially expensive).

I wanted to add that while I totally get your frustration, I'm afraid to say that many vendors leave these kinds of flaws up to the potential buyer to discern without commenting on them straight away. For example, some people notice badly cut stones, and some are not fussed by it; some don't mind grey or brown in their stone (stones lacking saturation of hue) and some can't tolerate these. Some stones have feathers, and naturals and some don't. From my experience, vendors typically WILL mention the weight, dimensions, treatment and clarity of the stone. They should (and most do) disclose any flaws/chips on the girdle/pavilion. They will mention the cutting only if its a precision cut stone - but will remain silent on the cutting if its just run of the mill cutting. Color is the hardest one. While they will comment on it, it is not often that they will admit there is greyish or brownish mask to the stone. I almost always follow up with questions on level of saturation and tone because the color they see is often quite different than how I will see it. In other words, there is typically a bit of back and forth between the vendor and I, particularly for higher end stones. Ebay is something different entirely, where it is often hard to get the vendors to respond before the time is up...

 

[mickeyblue42]

Thanks for the detailed responses everyone !

I guess I am cross for just not asking enough about the gemstone in the first place and trusting the initial photo.


Nothing like buying online to test your will

 

[T L]

Thanks for the detailed responses everyone !

I guess I am cross for just not asking enough about the gemstone in the first place and trusting the initial photo.


Nothing like buying online to test your will

If it's any consolation, a lot of us have lost money due to being uneducated at one point or another. You're not alone. When I first started buying gemstones, I bought a lot of horrible things. Some were unknowingly treated and expensive, had bad color, windows, problem refunds, etc. . . At least online these days, there's a lot more consumer education, which I didn't have the privilege of when I first started collecting. Heck the internet was in its infancy back then. I'm soooooo old.

Good luck on your future purchases and please read the sticky thread on top of this forum about colored gems before you make another purchase.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

 

[Marlow]

I bought a kornerupine with a frature in the middle below the table!!!

Then I bought glasses - s**t happens!!

 

[LD]

It's very difficult to take an accurate photo face on and typically gems are photographed at an angle. I very rarely see vendors disclose windows - some do - but the "norm" is to ask the question I'm afraid.

I realise being in a different country it's problematic to return but on principle I would do so and recoup some of the money.

BTW I know this is probably a silly thing to ask but did the price reflect the fact that the gem wasn't cut well? I think I'd be less inclined to be annoyed if I had considered the gem to be very reasonable in price. It's when the gem is expensive (to me) and then there are flaws that I have issues. I'm afraid that the list of vendors in this forum doesn't ensure quality. What it means to me is that forum members have used them and you'll normally receive a reasonable service so if not happy issues can be resolved.

 

[mickeyblue42]

I dont believe the price was an indication that the gemstone should have had such an obvious flaw.

More clarification and further photos would have assisted me in making a better decision

 

[movie zombie]

asking more questions and asking for more photos might have averted this situation.
personally, I buy nothing...including a car....w/o asking questions and for more detail.
just another learning lesson, imo.

 

[Michael_E]

I dont believe the price was an indication that the gemstone should have had such an obvious flaw.

More clarification and further photos would have assisted me in making a better decision

Didn't you get dimensions for the stone? You can usually infer a window of some size if the depth dimension is under about 60% of the width of the stone.

An obvious FLAW? Most gem dealers, who are not cutters, do not consider a window a flaw. Many stones of high cost and rarity are quite acceptable with a window...even if you can frame a picture with it.

 

[VapidLapid]

I am sorry you are having a bad purchasing experience, regardless of whether it was from a "PS recommended" vendor. I would like to see the vendor pic and one of your own after receiving it.

 

[Edward Bristol]

This window-topic is giving me gray hairs, too.

I know old time traders with like 40 years of experience in Sri Lanka or Bangkok and they still do not understand what a window is.

They really can’t. It is like explaining the concept of ‘round’ to a square.

BUT: I must say there is a bit of over-sensibility on the topic on the consumer side as well.

Before you curse me, let me explain. We are all clear on these gems with windows to fly a jumbo through. No discussions there. They need to be dead cheap.

However, the usually propagated test for windows (‘Can you read newspaper through gem?’) is in many cases not practical and overly tough.

This because many perfectly cut gems, which will look 100% fine in a setting, do easily fail the newspaper-test.

A little tilt (of viewer, newspaper or gem) will enable you to read newspapers through even precision cut gems.

The old test was to put the gem between two fingers (mimicking a setting) and if you could see the fingers behind the gem, then it was called a window.

So, we have a two different standards here: The hand-test and the newspaper-test.

I am not saying anything aboutmickeyblue’s stones since I haven’t seen them (nor would I be allowed to give my opinion).

Another question would be: Does the gem loose color in the centre? It might have a window but still show good color throughout the stone. That would be less a quality issue than a window with white glass character.

It is a big topic and not as easy as it seems.

 

[LD]

I am a buyer not a vendor. If I don't ask the right questions then it's my fault.

Whilst in an ideal world a vendor would tell you everything you could possibly need to know and provide numerous photos, in the real world this doesn't always happen.

We have to be realistic here. If a vendor has a returns policy - use it! I'm in the UK so returning anything is a nightmare - but I do it because I'd rather not have any more fish tank gravel!