Why would breast feeding vary THIS much by state?

[wildcat03]

In my state (which is not on any of the lists above), formula is covered entirely by WIC for patients who are eligible for Medicaid - and we have an extremely generous Medicaid system. I'm sure lactation consults outside of the hospital stay for birth aren't covered, and even if they are, most of these women would not be able or willing to attend them. They are often single moms and many do not have cars. They live in financially desolate areas, and the lactation consultants set up shop in the fancy towns - a couple towns away, and almost unnavigable by bus (and I'm sure the idea of taking a newborn baby on the bus is daunting). Plus, even if they could do that, who would watch the other kids at home? So, it's much easier for them to formula feed than it is for them to visit a lactation consultant.

 

[JulieN]

Moms who ever breastfed - Bottom 5 states vs Obesity Rate
46. Arkansas 62.4% 30.1%
47. Alabama 57.2% 32.2%
48. West Virginia 55.1% 32.5%
49. Louisiana 53.5% 31.0%
50. Mississippi 47.2% 34.0%

Moms breastfeeding at six months - Bottom 5 states
46. Arkansas 29.2%
47. West Virginia 28.1%
48. Kentucky 27.3% 31.3%
49. Mississippi 26.2%
50. Louisiana 23.6%

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html/
There are only 12 states with obesity rates above 30%, and all the states on your list have obesity rates over 30%.

The other six are, in order of lowest breastfeeding first:


S. Carolina 64.18 28.74 31.5
Tennessee 65.60 30.68 30.8
Michigan 68.40 34.53 30.9
Missouri 68.71 32.98 30.5
Oklahoma 70.17 31.29 30.4
Texas 72.38 36.36 31.0

Sorry, formatting sucks? But its the rates for ever breastfed, BFed after six months, and obesity rate.

I have no data, but I think US culture regarding boobs is too homogenous across states to account for the large difference in BFing. If there's any shaming at all, perhaps obese women don't like to bare their breasts in public? But I suspect is something other than shame.

 

[kenny]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

 

[monarch64]

Deleted.

 

[packrat]

I consider myself a bit of a "bf Nazi" as I've seen it termed, massively pro bf'ing. However..there's a difference between nursing your baby when she/he's hungry, and just sitting there in public w/your boobs hanging out, while your baby is sleeping or playing. Feed your baby, if something pops out or shows, ehhhh tough shit, the public needs to deal with it-London was big into nurse nurse nurse, pop off and go "ahhh" and look around, and neither kid could stand to have a blanket over them, so I inadvertently flashed more than my fair share of people in restaurants and other places. But I didn't walk around Target w/my boob hanging out just in case the kids wanted to nurse. Or sit at Appleby's w/my shirt open and bra up just in case, you know? There's a difference between oops there's a flash of nipple and oh hello there random boob for 40 minutes while I eat my lasagna.

 

[crown1]

with conditions being what they are these days, i am just glad that the babies are being fed, be it be breast milk or formula. i have seen and heard many horror stories about neglected children. perhaps we can just celebrate the fact that the children are being nourished and let it go at that.

 

[ksinger]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

Really Kenny? You think a board full of highly educated women who discussed attachment parenting and the pros and cons of breastfeeding both short and long term, complete with cites to back their positions, for 8 pages and 212 posts, or has an entire sub-forum devoted to the concerns of young female parenthood, requires your help to actually consider the subject for the first time? Or assume that simply being a woman from a state with low rates of breastfeeding means that she probably needs your PSA on the subject to remedy her ignorance? Really?

 

[ieatbugs]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

Really Kenny? You think a board full of highly educated women who discussed attachment parenting and the pros and cons of breastfeeding both short and long term, complete with cites to back their positions, for 8 pages and 212 posts, or has an entire sub-forum devoted to the concerns of young female parenthood, requires your help to actually consider the subject for the first time? Or assume that simply being a woman from a state with low rates of breastfeeding means that she probably needs your PSA on the subject to remedy her ignorance? Really?

Perhaps we should have a Women's Studies 101 class and enlighten some of our members on the definition of patriarchy ;D

 

[Skippy123]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

Really Kenny? You think a board full of highly educated women who discussed attachment parenting and the pros and cons of breastfeeding both short and long term, complete with cites to back their positions, for 8 pages and 212 posts, or has an entire sub-forum devoted to the concerns of young female parenthood, requires your help to actually consider the subject for the first time? Or assume that simply being a woman from a state with low rates of breastfeeding means that she probably needs your PSA on the subject to remedy her ignorance? Really?

ditto Crown1 too!

he is totally preaching to the choir. Kenny why don't you read through all the pumping threads and newborn to 12 mo mom threads.

 

[kenny]

Kenny why don't you read through all the pumping threads and newborn to 12 mo mom threads.

Are they here on Hangout or on some other forum?

 

[Shoopy]

In my state (which is not on any of the lists above), formula is covered entirely by WIC for patients who are eligible for Medicaid - and we have an extremely generous Medicaid system. I'm sure lactation consults outside of the hospital stay for birth aren't covered, and even if they are, most of these women would not be able or willing to attend them. They are often single moms and many do not have cars. They live in financially desolate areas, and the lactation consultants set up shop in the fancy towns - a couple towns away, and almost unnavigable by bus (and I'm sure the idea of taking a newborn baby on the bus is daunting). Plus, even if they could do that, who would watch the other kids at home? So, it's much easier for them to formula feed than it is for them to visit a lactation consultant.

Interesting about WIC. The offices here have a ton of courses on breast feeding. In fact, when I picked up my daughter's birth certificate the office shared space with a WIC office. I was surprised at the amount of breast feeding posters there were, including a very large banner which took up one side of the wall. In the WIC office at the hospital where I work it is also covered in breast feeding literature. And both offices had LCs available. It's actually a pretty significant effort with many incentives:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/breastfeeding/mainpage.HTM

 

[zoebartlett]

Kenny why don't you read through all the pumping threads and newborn to 12 mo mom threads.

Are they here on Hangout or on some other forum?

Look around a bit in one of the other more popular forums.
Great post, Ksinger! I agree with everything you, Skippy, and others have said. I was biting my tongue while reading, but I'm glad you didn't.

 

[peasypeas]

I'm not sure what it is. I am a total BF nazi, though I wouldn't push it on anyone or say anything to a mother for not bf. but if you ask me about it. ... I'll let you know LOL

 

[princesss]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

Really Kenny? You think a board full of highly educated women who discussed attachment parenting and the pros and cons of breastfeeding both short and long term, complete with cites to back their positions, for 8 pages and 212 posts, or has an entire sub-forum devoted to the concerns of young female parenthood, requires your help to actually consider the subject for the first time? Or assume that simply being a woman from a state with low rates of breastfeeding means that she probably needs your PSA on the subject to remedy her ignorance? Really?

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

 

[AGBF]

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

princess- I love your thoughtful postings, but I respectfully disagree with what you wrote above.

I think it is absurd to say that a man cannot write about breastfeeding. In my opinion, everyone should have complete intellectual freedom to write about whatever he chooses.

I think that the problem with kenny's posting was not that he wrote about a topic that a man should not discuss (unless he is a woman's doctor, etcetera), but that his was not, actually, an informative posting. Had he simply been posting some new information, I see nothing wrong with his doing that. I do see a problem with his posting information and then haranguing women to breastfeed. Like you and ksinger and Skippy, I found his responses to women in this thread to be condescending and high-handed. That attitude is the problem (in my opinion), not that men cannot discuss breastfeeding, that it should be a taboo subject.

Deb/AGBF

 

[princesss]

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

princess- I love your thoughtful postings, but I respectfully disagree with what you wrote above.

I think it is absurd to say that a man cannot write about breastfeeding. In my opinion, everyone should have complete intellectual freedom to write about whatever he chooses.

I think that the problem with kenny's posting was not that he wrote about a topic that a man should not discuss (unless he is a woman's doctor, etcetera), but that his was not, actually, an informative posting. Had he simply been posting some new information, I see nothing wrong with his doing that. I do see a problem with his posting information and then haranguing women to breastfeed. Like you and ksinger and Skippy, I found his responses to women in this thread to be condescending and high-handed. That attitude is the problem (in my opinion), not that men cannot discuss breastfeeding, that it should be a taboo subject.

Deb/AGBF

Deb, I agree that if it was purely information sharing ("I saw this just-off-the-presses article and wanted to share since I know it's a topic people here are interested in"), I would have less of a problem with it. But I think the problem is that that's what Kenny thought he was doing, and that (for me) is where it becomes difficult to just say, "Sure, post things like that."

I think in my frustration (oh, you should have seen that post pre-self editing!), I painted with too broad a brush. However, I feel the way in which I feel it's constructive for men to contribute to this specific discussion is so limited (because it is usually brought up with the implication that women can't/won't do their own research and it's up to men to bring important information to light), it's hard to be concise when explaining it!

 

[princesss]

Kenny, I think this might be a good article for you to read if you want to understand why I and other women on this board feel the way we do about your post: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/opinion/op-solnit13

The term floating around right now is "mansplaining" which I don't like because a) it's sexist, and not all men do this, nor is it a trait only associated with men and b) it happens in a variety of other contexts. But the basic idea is that often members of a privledged group will "explain" something to a less privledged group that directly affects the person being explained to but not the person explaining (e.g. a white person in the US trying to explain racism to a person of colour).


Also, while I'm in thoughtful mood instead of just posting and running, peasypeas while you may be a strong advocate for BFing, I would be rather shocked to hear that you employ the tactics the Nazis did against people whose beliefs and backgrounds were different than theirs. I know this is a common expression, but it's a really hurtful one. I doubt you are at all like a Nazi, and I'm sure you would be appalled to know that just using that comparison has hurt and upset people you are talking to, but it has. I don't want to derail this conversation, but a few friends have mentioned it to me when we were discussing this thread, so while they are busy with their kids and I have time to bring it up, I thought I would.

 

[Skippy123]

Perhaps a few PSers live in the states with low rates of BF, will see this thread, google BF, and learn of the health benefits.

I started this thread as a PSA.

I do not think the topic is creepy, or I am creepy.
Would a woman starting this thread be creepy?
It is about health and what stands in the way of achieving it.

Perhaps we could be equal and ignore the gender of OPs.

Really Kenny? You think a board full of highly educated women who discussed attachment parenting and the pros and cons of breastfeeding both short and long term, complete with cites to back their positions, for 8 pages and 212 posts, or has an entire sub-forum devoted to the concerns of young female parenthood, requires your help to actually consider the subject for the first time? Or assume that simply being a woman from a state with low rates of breastfeeding means that she probably needs your PSA on the subject to remedy her ignorance? Really?

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

thank you!!!!! All of this!!!

 

[ieatbugs]

Kenny, I think this might be a good article for you to read if you want to understand why I and other women on this board feel the way we do about your post: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/opinion/op-solnit13

The term floating around right now is "mansplaining" which I don't like because a) it's sexist, and not all men do this, nor is it a trait only associated with men and b) it happens in a variety of other contexts. But the basic idea is that often members of a privledged group will "explain" something to a less privledged group that directly affects the person being explained to but not the person explaining (e.g. a white person in the US trying to explain racism to a person of colour).


Also, while I'm in thoughtful mood instead of just posting and running, peasypeas while you may be a strong advocate for BFing, I would be rather shocked to hear that you employ the tactics the Nazis did against people whose beliefs and backgrounds were different than theirs. I know this is a common expression, but it's a really hurtful one. I doubt you are at all like a Nazi, and I'm sure you would be appalled to know that just using that comparison has hurt and upset people you are talking to, but it has. I don't want to derail this conversation, but a few friends have mentioned it to me when we were discussing this thread, so while they are busy with their kids and I have time to bring it up, I thought I would.

Thank you for this. I tried to make a comment as to why kenny comes across as entitled on another thread due to his male privilege but his response was that I was on "ignore." Glad to hear I'm not the only person who finds this attitude offensive.

 

[Skippy123]

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

princess- I love your thoughtful postings, but I respectfully disagree with what you wrote above.

I think it is absurd to say that a man cannot write about breastfeeding. In my opinion, everyone should have complete intellectual freedom to write about whatever he chooses.

I think that the problem with kenny's posting was not that he wrote about a topic that a man should not discuss (unless he is a woman's doctor, etcetera), but that his was not, actually, an informative posting. Had he simply been posting some new information, I see nothing wrong with his doing that. I do see a problem with his posting information and then haranguing women to breastfeed. Like you and ksinger and Skippy, I found his responses to women in this thread to be condescending and high-handed. That attitude is the problem (in my opinion), not that men cannot discuss breastfeeding, that it should be a taboo subject.

Deb/AGBF

Deb, on top of what you said above is that he has repeatedly said he does not like kids! I am pro what ever a woman choose is right for her and her family but I feel like these topics are started to turn us against each other knowing he does not like children (so it does not feel like a loving concern) and that is upsetting because a lot of the women on PS I find incredibly intelligent and many of the moms are kind and helpful to each other in the family threads. The family threads are what I love about PS!!! I do not like the threads that try to divide moms/women. Sure there are topics we should discuss but I wouldn't want Dancingfire or even my husband starting all these threads either. I think if someone feels so passionate about this particular thread they should be helping at the hospital or with the LLL, instead of preaching to us!

 

[Missy]

Amen, ksinger.

Kenny, the fact that you started a thread like this shows a huge lack of respect for the intellect of not only women on this board, but mothers and women in general. Despite what the world at large thinks, womens bodies and their choices are not public matters, and the discussion of them as such, or women's need to do something they don't want to do for anybody outside of their family, is highly offensive.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

If you answer "no" to all of these questions, it is not a topic you should bring up. Period. Yes, people vary in their opinions about these topics, but it is not up to you to bring this up. Women who care to will educate themselves. Women who don't care to will make their choice. Unless you know of a child that is not being fed, you do not get to comment.

princess- I love your thoughtful postings, but I respectfully disagree with what you wrote above.

I think it is absurd to say that a man cannot write about breastfeeding. In my opinion, everyone should have complete intellectual freedom to write about whatever he chooses.

I think that the problem with kenny's posting was not that he wrote about a topic that a man should not discuss (unless he is a woman's doctor, etcetera), but that his was not, actually, an informative posting. Had he simply been posting some new information, I see nothing wrong with his doing that. I do see a problem with his posting information and then haranguing women to breastfeed. Like you and ksinger and Skippy, I found his responses to women in this thread to be condescending and high-handed. That attitude is the problem (in my opinion), not that men cannot discuss breastfeeding, that it should be a taboo subject.

Deb/AGBF

Deb, on top of what you said above is that he has repeatedly said he does not like kids! I am pro what ever a woman choose is right for her and her family but I feel like these topics are started to turn us against each other knowing he does not like children (so it does not feel like a loving concern) and that is upsetting because a lot of the women on PS I find incredibly intelligent and many of the moms are kind and helpful to each other in the family threads. The family threads are what I love about PS!!! I do not like the threads that try to divide moms/women. Sure there are topics we should discuss but I wouldn't want Dancingfire or even my husband starting all these threads either. I think if someone feels so passionate about this particular thread they should be helping at the hospital or with the LLL, instead of preaching to us!

I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you Skippy. And ieatbugs, don't feel badly. You are a welcome addition to PS!

 

[ksinger]

Kenny, I think this might be a good article for you to read if you want to understand why I and other women on this board feel the way we do about your post: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/opinion/op-solnit13

The term floating around right now is "mansplaining" which I don't like because a) it's sexist, and not all men do this, nor is it a trait only associated with men and b) it happens in a variety of other contexts. But the basic idea is that often members of a privledged group will "explain" something to a less privledged group that directly affects the person being explained to but not the person explaining (e.g. a white person in the US trying to explain racism to a person of colour).


Also, while I'm in thoughtful mood instead of just posting and running, peasypeas while you may be a strong advocate for BFing, I would be rather shocked to hear that you employ the tactics the Nazis did against people whose beliefs and backgrounds were different than theirs. I know this is a common expression, but it's a really hurtful one. I doubt you are at all like a Nazi, and I'm sure you would be appalled to know that just using that comparison has hurt and upset people you are talking to, but it has. I don't want to derail this conversation, but a few friends have mentioned it to me when we were discussing this thread, so while they are busy with their kids and I have time to bring it up, I thought I would.

Absolutely frippin' BRILLIANT. And I don't have a problem with calling it "mansplaining" because A)after reflection I have NEVER had a woman do this to me. Ever. And B)I've had a ton of men over the years do that very thing. And if you've ever been around a bunch of guys talking amongst themselves, they don't do this to each other either, just to us. They may get agressive with their views, shout each other down, or rigorously support their position before privately declaring who "won" the "debate", but EXPLAIN to other guys....assume the other guy needs help to understand? No. Guys assume the other guy is going to argue back, and marshall their arguments accordingly. Women aren't worth convincing, so we get EXPLAINING.

 

[kenny]

I will never start another BF thread on PS.

I'm a member of many fora and this is the only one where posters goes bananas over this.

Other fora just discuss the topic without shooting the OP.

Sad.

 

[TravelingGal]

I will never start another BF thread on PS.

I'm a member of many fora and this is the only one where posters goes bananas over this.

Other fora just discuss the topic without shooting the OP.

Sad.

Yes, Kenny, *we're* sad.

By all means, please go and post more in other forums where members don't go so "bananas".

 

[Autumnovember]

Kenny, I think this might be a good article for you to read if you want to understand why I and other women on this board feel the way we do about your post: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/opinion/op-solnit13

The term floating around right now is "mansplaining" which I don't like because a) it's sexist, and not all men do this, nor is it a trait only associated with men and b) it happens in a variety of other contexts. But the basic idea is that often members of a privledged group will "explain" something to a less privledged group that directly affects the person being explained to but not the person explaining (e.g. a white person in the US trying to explain racism to a person of colour).


Also, while I'm in thoughtful mood instead of just posting and running, peasypeas while you may be a strong advocate for BFing, I would be rather shocked to hear that you employ the tactics the Nazis did against people whose beliefs and backgrounds were different than theirs. I know this is a common expression, but it's a really hurtful one. I doubt you are at all like a Nazi, and I'm sure you would be appalled to know that just using that comparison has hurt and upset people you are talking to, but it has. I don't want to derail this conversation, but a few friends have mentioned it to me when we were discussing this thread, so while they are busy with their kids and I have time to bring it up, I thought I would.

Thank you for this. I tried to make a comment as to why kenny comes across as entitled on another thread due to his male privilege but his response was that I was on "ignore." Glad to hear I'm not the only person who finds this attitude offensive.

Your attitude is offensive too....thats probably why you were put on ignore...and bringing this topic into another thread =

 

[FrekeChild]

I will never start another BF thread on PS.

I'm a member of many fora and this is the only one where posters goes bananas over this.

Other fora just discuss the topic without shooting the OP.

Sad.

Yes, Kenny, *we're* sad.

By all means, please go and post more in other forums where members don't go so "bananas".

This is hilarious! This forum is something ridiculous like 90+% female, and of course, OF COURSE, a male comes in here ranting about how "sad" and "posters goes bananas". FANCY THAT! It's like the article that princesss posted coming to life!

Here is a quote http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/opinion/op-solnit13/2:

"Credibility is a basic survival tool. When I was very young and just beginning to get what feminism was about and why it was necessary, I had a boyfriend whose uncle was a nuclear physicist. One Christmas, he was telling -- as though it were a light and amusing subject -- how a neighbor's wife in his suburban bomb-making community had come running out of her house naked in the middle of the night screaming that her husband was trying to kill her. How, I asked the physicist, did you know that he wasn't trying to kill her? He explained, patiently, that they were respectable middle-class people. Therefore, her-husband-trying-to-kill-her was simply not a credible explanation for why she was fleeing the house yelling that her husband was trying to kill her. That she was crazy, on the other hand...."

Because women are irrational, emotional human beings. So OF COURSE THIS forum would be "sad" and the "posters goes bananas". Because the vast majority of the people here are WOMEN.

And typically we are educated women that are more or less family oriented. Yes, the posters here on PriceScope need to be lectured on breastfeeding. ARE YOU BLEEPING KIDDING ME?!

470 pages about newborn babies:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ps-mommy-thread-newborn-to-12-months.115074/

1217 pages about pregnancy:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-all-the-pregnant-psers.47081/

What to avoid eating while breast feeding:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/breastfeeding-diet.178310/

Breast pumps:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/breast-pumps.177735/

Attachment Parenting:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-do-you-think-of-attachment-parenting.119315/

Breast pump help and advice:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ottle-compatibility-slow-flow-nipples.176191/

AND THOSE ARE ONLY THE ONES ON THE FIRST TWO PAGES.


I, like princesss, had a very hard time holding my tongue typing this post.

Maybe you should go lecture your other fora's participants on breastfeeding Kenny! But make sure to chose the forum with the demographic most suited to agree with you and not be "sad" or where "posters goes bananas". Here, you chose to preach to the wrong choir.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Kenny's personal fascination aside, I find it troubling that men should be completely shut off from any and all women's health subjects. After all, babies have a father as well and fathers should also be involved in their upbringing. While the final decision to BF or not is the mother's, the father should also be well educated on the subject and understand what is involved, how he can help/participate, etc. At the very least, men should also be worried about the health of the next generation.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

I think this is very relevant when you are talking about a specific person (not only women, but people in general where health is concerned) as the first question indicates. However, this thread was not directed to a person, trying to push a woman to breast feed (mind, I am concentrating on the original post) but a discussion about a society as whole - what leads to such different statistics in different regions?

I am not obese - does that mean I can't comment on the obesity situation in society? I am a woman, so I should ignore prostate cancer (even though I have a father and a BF)?

Nothing justifies haranguing a person to act to our believes, as long as they are acting legally. However, I also don't think it is justified to shut out segments of society from meaningful discussion.

 

[ieatbugs]

Kenny's personal fascination aside, I find it troubling that men should be completely shut off from any and all women's health subjects. After all, babies have a father as well and fathers should also be involved in their upbringing. While the final decision to BF or not is the mother's, the father should also be well educated on the subject and understand what is involved, how he can help/participate, etc. At the very least, men should also be worried about the health of the next generation.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

I think this is very relevant when you are talking about a specific person (not only women, but people in general where health is concerned) as the first question indicates. However, this thread was not directed to a person, trying to push a woman to breast feed (mind, I am concentrating on the original post) but a discussion about a society as whole - what leads to such different statistics in different regions?

I am not obese - does that mean I can't comment on the obesity situation in society? I am a woman, so I should ignore prostate cancer (even though I have a father and a BF)?

Nothing justifies haranguing a person to act to our believes, as long as they are acting legally. However, I also don't think it is justified to shut out segments of society from meaningful discussion.

I don't think anyone here thinks that it's not okay for men to discuss women's issues, but the fact is, we're not having this conversation in a vacuum. There are many examples of patriarchy in our society and many of the women here have I'm sure experienced being talked down to or perhaps even told by men that they aren't able to think for themselves or be intelligent enough to make decisions about their own body. It is a real problem with the legislation in the USA, that entire sessions on women health were held with political leaders without involving a single women. I think this is the issue (it certainly is for me) - I would LOVE for men to be really concerned about women's issues, but so often it seems they are only concerned because they feel that we need saving or educating because as women we can't be trusted to make informed decisions about our own bodies.

It has happened to me many times, sometimes even from healthcare professionals, definitely from my own father and uncles and even at work. It reinforces gender roles that hurt both men and women, because then when men DO take an interest in things not typically considered masculine (such as child rearing) they are subject to people thinking they are creepy or perhaps interested in being around kids 'for the wrong reasons.' Gender discrimination and bias is bad for everyone, all around.

 

[wildcat03]

In my state (which is not on any of the lists above), formula is covered entirely by WIC for patients who are eligible for Medicaid - and we have an extremely generous Medicaid system. I'm sure lactation consults outside of the hospital stay for birth aren't covered, and even if they are, most of these women would not be able or willing to attend them. They are often single moms and many do not have cars. They live in financially desolate areas, and the lactation consultants set up shop in the fancy towns - a couple towns away, and almost unnavigable by bus (and I'm sure the idea of taking a newborn baby on the bus is daunting). Plus, even if they could do that, who would watch the other kids at home? So, it's much easier for them to formula feed than it is for them to visit a lactation consultant.

Interesting about WIC. The offices here have a ton of courses on breast feeding. In fact, when I picked up my daughter's birth certificate the office shared space with a WIC office. I was surprised at the amount of breast feeding posters there were, including a very large banner which took up one side of the wall. In the WIC office at the hospital where I work it is also covered in breast feeding literature. And both offices had LCs available. It's actually a pretty significant effort with many incentives:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/breastfeeding/mainpage.HTM

Oh, they are absolutely pro-breastfeeding here. But, it doesn't matter how pro-breastfeeding they are if they don't work to overcome and knock down the basic logistical barriers to lower income women breastfeeding. Most of these women have been told all about the benefits of breastfeeding but either choose not to or are unable to. For those who are unable to, showing them posters isn't going to do anything. Providing them with the tools to initiate breastfeeding WILL - and for a lot of people that means some education about latch, position, supply management, etc. For a population with that may be illiterate or may only read to a 3rd or 4th grade level, this is best achieved through in-person, hands-on tutelage. Anything less is fairly ineffective. So, WIC can claim to be pro-breastfeeding all they want, but until they actually provide women with the tools to initiate breastfeeding in a way that works for new, exhausted moms, many of whom are single parenting and may have multiple children - it's going to be much easier for those women to choose the free formula through WIC route.

 

[ksinger]

Kenny's personal fascination aside, I find it troubling that men should be completely shut off from any and all women's health subjects. After all, babies have a father as well and fathers should also be involved in their upbringing. While the final decision to BF or not is the mother's, the father should also be well educated on the subject and understand what is involved, how he can help/participate, etc. At the very least, men should also be worried about the health of the next generation.

When it comes to women's health topics, there are 3 questions I think you should ask yourself.

1) Did this woman ask my advice?
2) Am I a doctor actively treating this woman as my patient?
3) Am I in an intimate relationship with this woman where discussion of this topic actively affects me/our life together/our family?

I think this is very relevant when you are talking about a specific person (not only women, but people in general where health is concerned) as the first question indicates. However, this thread was not directed to a person, trying to push a woman to breast feed (mind, I am concentrating on the original post) but a discussion about a society as whole - what leads to such different statistics in different regions?

I am not obese - does that mean I can't comment on the obesity situation in society? I am a woman, so I should ignore prostate cancer (even though I have a father and a BF)?

Nothing justifies haranguing a person to act to our believes, as long as they are acting legally. However, I also don't think it is justified to shut out segments of society from meaningful discussion.

Kenny has a history of these things, as many of us know from long experience. His fascination with women's bodies and functions and issues is well known and mostly tolerated, for the sake of "discussion". The difference is YOU (I would hope) don't sanctimoniously declare your topic of discussion a "public service announcement" in hopes that the (read: ignorant and benighted) PS'er in a low-breastfeeding state sees it, and goes, "Wow, I ain't never thot 'o that before...mebee I shud go use that Google thang that i herd of and read up a piece."

Now, if you really are interested in basic insights into regional differences, I suggest "American Nations" by Colin Woodward.