Why Whiteflash doesn''t make any sense

[samanthalee]

I have learned so much and got a lot of education from this web site. You guys are amazing. I''m not sure if you are GIA graduates or laymen with a ton of knowledge I would have to say probably their is mixture of both and all of you are brilliant-

But I honestly can not see how Whitflash can compete with local dealers-
I can''t justify paying to see a stone when I have four or five dealers bringing in diamonds at no cost to me to see-

So althought so many of you recommend them, please explain to me how this makes any sense at all-
Internet dealers lack the quantity of shy 4ct stones AND they make you pay to see them-
Why would you pay for something you can get for free????????????????????/

Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe I''m missing something?

 

[elmo]

Shipping a $60K diamond may cost $150-200 each way. The local dealers are often making a high enough margin selling a $60K stone that it's worth taking the risk that you won't buy the stone. For example, let's say for every 5 potential buyers they sell one stone. If their net is more than a couple thousand more than the online sellers, they've made more money in the end. The online sellers are also weeding out less than serious shoppers this way, a necessary evil when margins are small.

 

[samanthalee]

I see your point- and if the pricess were very competitive, I can see how that works. But the prices I am looking at are all in the same ball park-

I hear they only make 10% off the total sale, not sure if that iis true for these larger stones, but at any rate, I weeped out the couple of dealers that inflate their prices on the "almost" excact same stone.

 

[tberube]

Date: 1/19/2008 9:26:12 AM
Author:samanthalee
I have learned so much and got a lot of education from this web site. You guys are amazing. I''m not sure if you are GIA graduates or laymen with a ton of knowledge I would have to say probably their is mixture of both and all of you are brilliant-

But I honestly can not see how Whitflash can compete with local dealers-
I can''t justify paying to see a stone when I have four or five dealers bringing in diamonds at no cost to me to see-

So althought so many of you recommend them, please explain to me how this makes any sense at all-
Internet dealers lack the quantity of shy 4ct stones AND they make you pay to see them-
Why would you pay for something you can get for free????????????????????/

Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe I''m missing something?

I am no expert but I can tell you for sure that internet dealers do NOT lack in quantity of diamonds. Their inventory is so much bigger and so much more diverse (i.e. having large quantities of fancies) than any B&M I''ve been to.

 

[butterfly 17]

I used Whiteflash to purchase my diamond. I was very pleased with the service. I didn't buy a 4 carat diamond of course, but I did make a very large purchase and I felt that I got a very good price for an ACA diamond, something local dealers won't necessarily have.

Since then I have purchased earrings, a bracelet and jackets from them. If I ever do another large purchase, I will not hesiitate to use them again. Their quality is superb and their customer service is excellent.

For their part, I am sure it is very risky to send a 4 carat stone to someone. Of course they are not going to do it for free. That's why most people have the diamond shipped to an appraiser of their choice and then from there decide what they want to do with it.

Some people even take the plane ride over there to look at the diamond themselves.

If you are not happy with the choices available or dealing with an online vendor because they won't let you see the diamond for free, then don't use them.

I don't see why you had to single out Whiteflash though. I thought you were looking at a diamond from Blue Nile.

I know you are anxious to get your diamond, but don't worry, all good things come to those who are patient enough.

 

[elmo]

Date: 1/19/2008 9:50:51 AM
Author: samanthalee
I see your point- and if the pricess were very competitive, I can see how that works. But the prices I am looking at are all in the same ball park...I weeped out the couple of dealers that inflate their prices on the 'almost' excact same stone.

What may seem like marginal differences between stones on paper can actually result in significant price differences. For instance between two F-VS2s, cut differences fluorescence and certain clarity features could easily make several thousands dollars difference at 4 carats.

 

[Ellen]

Samantha,

My post is meant most sincerely, so I hope you take it that way.

You are just starting out your search. It is evident that you may not have done as much research on diamonds, and Princess in particular as you could. The problem is, most (but not all) jewelers don't carry great inventory. I speak from experience, as do many on here. If you are finding an abundance of Princess just shy of 4 cts., or anything even close, I would bet my bottom dollar they are not that well cut. Excellent cut larger stones are few and far between.

One reason people may be recommending WF is because they happen to cut a branded Princess. They know what an outstanding one looks like. They pride themselves on the diamonds they sell, and they most likely would not sell you a stone that wasn't nice, whether they cut it or not. Most of us would pay the fee to have an experienced, expert set of eyes to look at/recommend a stone. (this is not the same scenario as having someone at BN eyeball one, or speak to someone else who eyeballs it).

If you are just wanting a big stone, then no, no reason to call one in, I'm sure you'll find one locally. But if you want a big, outstandingly cut stone, that razzles and dazzles someone several feet away, and you too, it might behoove you to let someone experienced find you that dream stone. And for that, you WILL pay less from an online vendor. Remember, you need to be comparing apples with apples.

Just my humble .02.

p.s. If you are set on looking/buying locally, please ask to see AGS0 graded Princess (with a zero for light performance). That will greatly increase your chances of getting a decent stone.

 

[san diego searcher]

I''m a newbie and just made a purchase from WF. I haven''t even received mine yet so can''t comment on satisfaction yet. But in shopping local dealers for what I was looking for, the only local one who would bring in something for me at a price that was competitive with online wanted me to pay to ship it back if I didn''t buy it. That being the case and with all the raves about WF checking their merchandise before selling and making sure it was up to their standards, I thought it was (hopefully) a better way for me to get the best for my $. I would have liked to look at the diamonds myself first but no one in my area could show me GIA certed stones for my quality and budget specifications that compared to online sellers (with the one exception who wanted me to pay to ship back). Lots would show me non-certed diamonds but I was advised by an appraiser that there is a reason they are not certified....most likely they will not appraise at the specs they are sold to have.

 

[Regular Guy]

I frequently use Consumer Reports, and that sort of resource. Do you?

That''s what you get from Pricescope as a resource. The vetting...by many many people of their experience with specific dealers.

I''d review, as a good sample, Solanges comments made (now at the end) below mine here. Your own experience should also make a difference, of course, and if it is positive with other local dealers, that is good. But...WF has been tested and vouched for many times. That may not be worth the differential in cost to you...but if you have upwards of $60K to spend...how could it not?

 

[strmrdr]

Here is 2 4ct G VS graded princess cuts one a weak egl cert the other GIA

4.01 G VS2 73.2% 75% GIA tk no gd vg ft 8.96-8.66-6.34 $16931 $67894
4.01 G VS1 73.7% 73% EGL vtn-tk polishe no vg vg ft 8.78-8.49x6.26 $8879 $35606

over $32000 difference in price.

make sure your comparing apples too apples

 

[bem3231]

Ditto the making sure you''re comparing apples to apples thing.

We just bought my stone - which was in the $45,000 range. We bought it through Good Old Gold and I had no problem paying for the shipping to see the stones that Jon helped me to decide to look at. Most of the cost in shipping is in the insurance, and yes, shipping a $67,000 stone costs easily $150 - $200 each way. Good Old Gold will credit the shipping on stones that they have to bring in should a purchase consummate - I''m assuming that other highly reputed dealers such as Whiteflash would as well. Please take heed from the Pricescopers who have mentioned that at that size, very small differences in a stone can represent a difference of several thousands (or more) dollars - those are dollars that you stand to lose as well if you don''t do sufficient research.

For what it''s worth, not only did way pay to have stones shipped for consideration, but I''m one of those who took the trip to NY (twice, from Western Canada) to view them with my own eyes prior to choosing. I do not regret either the shipping of travel expenses in getting me the stone of my dreams...

 

[denverappraiser]

Storefront dealers can and often do compete pricewise with one another and with the Internet based advertisers. That said, ‘free’ services get paid for in a variety of different ways and they are rarely free. Many dealers are willing to absorb the cost of bringing in and returning stones that you don’t buy because of the hope that you will end up buying one and that they will make enough profit on the deal to offset it. As is pointed out above, shopping one stone against another is remarkably difficult in even the best of conditions but if you’re trying to do it with nothing more than a lab report it’s basically impossible, especially with a princess. The solution is to find a jeweler who communicates well with you and who can put together a deal that ends up where you want to be. This may be WF, it may be someone else. The first part of the exercise is shopping for a dealer more than it’s one of shopping for a diamond. Lots of people here have had good experiences with WF and like to spread the word about their successes but most jewelers have satisfied customers who tell their friends about them. It’s a big world. Not everyone is looking for the same things in a store and not every store offers the same program. To quote Martha Stewart, “It’s a good thing”.

Shipping costs, rather like appraisal costs are a tiny fraction of the budget here. Be careful that cost control on tiny things doesn't cause you to neglect the more important issues.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[door knob solitaire]

Ellen...Your post was most informative and well written. I learned a lot by reading it. Nutshell: You can get size anywhere...but when you are shopping cut...the one aspect that makes a diamond REALLY ROCK...a generic B & M just can''t beat online vendors. Online vendors who only select the stones they ARE CONFIDENT WHEN SHIPPED THEY WILL STICK where they sent. Why stock the normal everyday cut?

And Stormy...your fruit bowl exercise was also. Fruit salad should always be thought of when making any type of purchase...right?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/19/2008 11:36:26 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
Ellen...Your post was most informative and well written. I learned a lot by reading it. Nutshell: You can get size anywhere...but when you are shopping cut...the one aspect that makes a diamond REALLY ROCK...a generic B & M just can''t beat online vendors. Online vendors who only select the stones they ARE CONFIDENT WHEN SHIPPED THEY WILL STICK where they sent. Why stock the normal everyday cut?

And Stormy...your fruit bowl exercise was also. Fruit salad should always be thought of when making any type of purchase...right?

yea gotta have them apples.

seriously samanthalee if you can get the exact same stones same price at a b&m with free call in then go for it.
Get an ASET scope to help judge them and have at it.

 

[Ellen]

Thank you former youknowwho.

 

[ringabling]

Sam. . .I''m distracted by one thing. . . Whiteflash IS local for you. You are shopping in Houston, they ARE local.
Why does it matter what they do online really, since for you that''s irrelevant. Drive over and look for yourself, just like you do at other local jewelers.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/19/2008 11:52:32 AM
Author: ringabling
Sam. . .I''m distracted by one thing. . . Whiteflash IS local for you. You are shopping in Houston, they ARE local.
Why does it matter what they do online really, since for you that''s irrelevant. Drive over and look for yourself, just like you do at other local jewelers.

I "think" it''s because WF doesn''t have this size laying around. So they''d have to call them in, and she''d have to pay shipping if she doesn''t like, while other local shops either already have some stones in stock (again, highly doubtful they''re of great cut quality) and/or aren''t charging her to bring them in.

Samantha, please correct me if I''m wrong.

 

[bee*]

I definitely agree with Ellen-make sure you''re comparing like with like. Any larger stones that I''ve seen in B&M''s, haven''t compared with what I''ve seen online.

 

[ringabling]

WF charges just to get stones in their office?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/19/2008 12:15:45 PM
Author: ringabling
WF charges just to get stones in their office?

IF you don''t buy it, I believe you pay the shipping. If you do buy it, you don''t.

 

[ringabling]

I figured that was IF they ship it to you, not if you went to their office in person.
Interesting.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/19/2008 12:24:23 PM
Author: ringabling
I figured that was IF they ship it to you, not if you went to their office in person.
Interesting.

Well think about it. They have to hunt down what you''re interested in, and then have it shipped to them (again, they don''t have 3 and 4 ct. Princess on hand). Somebody has to pay that shipping fee.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 1/19/2008 10:03:46 AM
Author: Ellen
If you are finding an abundance of Princess just shy of 4 cts., or anything even close, I would bet my bottom dollar they are not that well cut. Excellent cut larger stones are few and far between.

One reason people may be recommending WF is because they happen to cut a branded Princess. They know what an outstanding one looks like. They pride themselves on the diamonds they sell, and they most likely would not sell you a stone that wasn''t nice, whether they cut it or not. Most of us would pay the fee to have an experienced, expert set of eyes to look at/recommend a stone.

But if you want a big, outstandingly cut stone, that razzles and dazzles someone several feet away, and you too, it might behoove you to let someone experienced find you that dream stone. And for that, you WILL pay less from an online vendor. Remember, you need to be comparing apples with apples.

p.s. If you are set on looking/buying locally, please ask to see AGS0 graded Princess (with a zero for light performance). That will greatly increase your chances of getting a decent stone.

Ellen ever so eloquently said exactly what I was thinking, Sammy. I would add further "Don''t knock it til you try it" ... If they order you in a stone and you have to pay for shipping yada yada, it will be an AMAZING stone. They don''t appear to take this type of thing lightly. I would be really quite surprised if they ordered in this stone for you and it did not blow you away. THIS is the difference. The fact that the diamond they bring in for you will blow away any of the other diamonds you have seen so far and have been "comparing" Whiteflash against, without yet seeing their product, is what will make Whiteflash ultimately "make sense" to you.

Like any other vendor, Whiteflash is in business to turn a profit, however, they are committed to educating buyers about diamond quality as well, thus they will not go about the hassle and cost of ordering in large diamonds for people at no cost if those people are not seriously interested in buying what they are able to find. Why would they? What would be in it for them if they didn''t charge you for shipping if they found you a fabulous stone, as per your stated specifications, and you just decided for no real rhyme or reason that you didn''t want it? Nothing. They would lose the money they spent getting the diamond for you and there would be no gain.

On your side, however, you have given them your specs, they have set about to find you a gorgeous stone. They will find one, it may take some time but they will find an amazing diamond for you and, at that time, they will order it in for you to view. IF you love it, which is a great likelihood, they will not "charge" you for the shipping ... You will buy the diamond and all is well that ends well. Now if you don''t like it and choose to take your business elsewhere, they WILL request that you pay the shipping as it was a legitimate cost that they had to pay. There has to be something in it for both parties, no?

On the other hand now, if you have well developed relationship with Whiteflash, which, since this is your very first purchase, you do not yet have, I am certain that there would be some more "flexibility" with regards to shipping costs given your relationship and potential for repeat business and referrals etc ... Just as you are leery of them at this point, they may well be the same of you b/c you have no established relationship and have no idea if you are truly a motivated buyer or just a looky loo.

I hope this makes some sense ... and better helps you to understand why something that didn''t initiallly make sense to you is actually quite reasonalble.

 

[crown1]

never mind. found answer.

 

[jj970]

Hey, I am in the diamond buying process as well and just wanted to tell you my experience. I talked to WF as well and they offered the same thing. If I wanted a stone brought in, I had to pay for shipping and if I bought it, they'd "pay me back". If I didn't, then they'd ask me to pay for it. Also, if they found that it didn't look good, then they wouldn't even offer it to me and I wouldn't have to pay either.

I talked with EGD and they offered to have stones for me to view when I visited. They didn't say anything about shipping, but perhaps that is because they are pretty local in the diamond distirict.

GOG also wanted me to pay for shipping to look at stones. They did offer to pay for the first stone they brought in as a good faith thing.

As a comparison, the local store I went to was selling an inferior stone (in-house graded/no cert) for almost exactly $10,000 more. They brought in 3 stones for me to look at though, not making me pay a cent.

 

[solange]

If Whiteflash sends for a stone or stones for you, you have the advantage of going to them since you live in Houston. Therefore, you would not have to pay the additional charge of having them ship it to you and then you shipping it back in case you do not like it. I believe there is also a discount if you mention Pricescope.
People who have travelled great distances to go there have felt they learned a lot and it was a great educational experience. Even if you do not buy there, you will earn a lot and be able to make a fair comparison between their stones and what you have seen elsewhere.

 

[Kay]

Date: 1/19/2008 12:20:50 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 1/19/2008 12:15:45 PM
Author: ringabling
WF charges just to get stones in their office?

IF you don''t buy it, I believe you pay the shipping. If you do buy it, you don''t.

I just purchased my second diamond from Whiteflash (and am waiting for it to be set so I can get my greedy little hands on it). They did not have what I was looking for in house, but found a stone that looked like a good contender through their sources. They said if they brought it in and they didn''t think it was a winner, it would cost me nothing, but if they recommended it after viewing it personally and checking it with Idealscope, ASET and Sarin, but I decided not to take it, then I would have to pay $50 (1 carat diamond) for insured shipping back to their vendor. I was willing to take the $50 risk, because I really liked the specs of the stone on paper and I figured if they recommended it I would buy it.

 

[ringabling]

but any jeweler risks ordering a stone for a customer and them not taking it. . . I''ve been dealing w/ jewelers and diamonds for 12 yrs and have never been charged even a small fee for them to order in stones for me to review. One of the jewelers we''ve worked w/ for 12 yrs shares the buiding w/ Whiteflash

You''re right, someone may have to pay a shipping fee, thank goodness the ones I''ve worked with have decided not to pass that fee onto me.

 

[snowflakeluvr]

working with whiteflash on a custom setting(did not purchase diamond from them) proved to give me outstanding service, a great value and beautiful jewelry which i love and enjoy. it is difficult sight unseen to have faith in a "virtual" experience of diamond/jewelry shopping, but it has been a great experience for me! good luck finding the stone and ring of your dreams

 

[bem3231]

Perhaps one of the issues with charging to bring the kind of stones that you''re looking for lies in the fact that the vast majority of shipping charges for loose stones are to cover insurance. When I had stones shipped into GOG Jon shared with me the rate sheet from the courier company and most of the costs were to cover insurance. Hence, while a company might not be inclined to charge to bring in some stones, when dealing with such high value stones the costs associated with that become much more significant. Just a thought...