WHY isn''t IGI and EGL reputable?

[MidwestDiamondHunter]

Hi all,

Everybody always talks about how IGI, EGL, and other certs are very reliable and/or accurate relative to the esteemed GIA and AGS.

Why is this so and what is the evidence to support this?

I just like to have a little ammo to back up claims such as these.

Thanks!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/1/2010 3:33:06 PM
Author:MidwestDiamondHunter
Hi all,

Everybody always talks about how IGI, EGL, and other certs are very reliable and/or accurate relative to the esteemed GIA and AGS.

Why is this so and what is the evidence to support this?

I just like to have a little ammo to back up claims such as these.

Thanks!

I think it is more that many of us say that they are unreliable compared to AGS or GIA documents. Perhaps you left the word "not" out of your sentence.

We say this after years in the business and seeing scores of bogus grades by some of the second and third tier labs. Some also do things like publish very high "appraisal" figures along with their diamond reports such as the ridicules prices that are more than double true market value that accompany some of the stones sold in places like Costco.

I am constantly hearing that both IGI and EGL USA are straightening up their acts, and I hope that this is true, but I will be putting on my "I am from Missouri" face and wanting them to "show me" before I will believe it.

I am told by John Pollard that when he was speaking in China over the past couple of years that he was impressed with the quality of the IGI reports there and that in fact in China and the Far East that IGI is one of the first tier labs. I look forward to the day when the US office decides to play nice and start acting the same as the Chinese office.

 

[kenny]

Date: 7/1/2010 3:33:06 PM
Author:MidwestDiamondHunter
. . . Why is this so . . .?

Why?
Here are a few reasons that enter my mind:

1. In a word, Money!
2. Because they can - weight is an absolute measurement while color and clarity are more up to human judgement. (but somehow AGS and GIA get it more right using humans)
3. A sucker is born every minute. A certain kind of buyer looooooves and waaaaaaants to believe they really are getting an F VS1 for the price of an H SI2.
4. Slimy sellers are happy to take the money of these buyers without disclosing, "That ain't really no F VS1." (So both sides are at fault.)
5. No government agency enforces compliance to color and clarity standards and some argue that would be impossible anyway.

 

[oldminer]

It is my belief that most everyone agrees that some IGI and some EGL paperwork is liberal compared to AGSL or GIA. It is not a 100% of the time thing, but it is a trend that is quite apparent to dealers as certs from secondary labs lead to routine discounting of the diamonds just as if they had lower grades from GIA or AGSL. It fools no one in the trade, but it does work magic for some sellers who claim all papers are the same and then fool the unsuspecting consumer into a false belief in Santa or the tooth fairy. Sellers may claim ignorance of the truth, but I just sort of doubt they are all so uninformed. They push off the mis-grading as the responsibility of the lab and just claim they don''t know how to exactly grade diamonds. That might be true for some of them, but surely it is not 100% true for all of them. Some know exactly what they are doing and they are doing it to make money, plain and simple. These dishonest sellers steal good sales from honest merchants and because so few ever get cought it becomes ever more tempting for sellers to follow the lead of those who don''t care and feel they will never get caught.

IGI and EGL are totally capable of grading to exacting GIA standards. However, the market for diamond grading is larger for a bit more liberal graded diamonds and money drives the demand for slightly weaker reports. It does not have ill effect on the diamond itself. Some of the very best values are graded by secondary labs including IGI and EGL. When we did a study on this some years ago that was one of our conclusions. Knowledge and good shopping are key to doing well with a purchase. The paperwork is a shortcut sometimes, but it is not a perfect situation. Simply stated, not all labs and not all grading systems used by labs are identical even though they may appear to be identical. It is confusing, but probably not illegal.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Actual prooof- by way of two recent experiences
1) we submitted a diamond graded I/SI2 by HRD to GIA- result: K/I1
2) we submitted a diamond graded I color by EGL Israel to GIA- result- Q-R light Brown.
We are in total agreement with the GIA grades on both of these diamonds, and both happen to be over 4cts ( making them fairly important diamonds)
Nuff said?




Basically, we don;t always agree with GIA or AGSL- but I can''t recall a time where we saw more than one grades difference- which can be chalked up to opinion ( I think it''s an SI1, they give it VS2- a borderline call)

In these cases, a stone may very well trade at the high or low end of the norm for other similarly graded stones.

With anything but GIA or AGSL, you''re all over the board- lack of consistency rules out using any grades other than GIA or AGSL

 

[John P]

Date: 7/1/2010 3:53:56 PM
Author: Wink

I am told by John Pollard that when he was speaking in China over the past couple of years that he was impressed with the quality of the IGI reports there and that in fact in China and the Far East that IGI is one of the first tier labs. I look forward to the day when the US office decides to play nice and start acting the same as the Chinese office.

IGI has numerous worldwide locations with site-based management.

Their reputation in the US has been built largely on the finished jewelry appraisal-reports that are famously misused by salespeople to demonstrate what a "bargain" a piece is. Unfortunate. Meanwhile IGI has a strong history in Europe and a top reputation in Asia. Their HK lab has used proximity to mainland China to build considerable advocacy and reputability. The loose diamond grading results there are widely considered on par with GIA. In fact the IGI "Hearts & Arrows" grading report from the HK lab is seen in much the same way that an AGS Ideal report is in the US.

I wrote two articles published in IDEX at the end of last year. Both regarded China - one was about consumers and the other about grading authorities (relevant to this thread). I've granted permission to PS to repost them here. Andrey is waiting for 2.0 to be running before he does so.