Why is everyone getting divorced?

[AmeliaG]

Maybe Maria had genuine affection, attraction to Arnold which developed into a bond of family and they really do get along well day to day but their differing political values have long been a (publicly unspoken) bone of contention that neither really want to try to reconcile any longer. Maybe those values go deeper and have to do with basic ways they want their lives to go.

I haven't been divorced but I just wanted to comment on this. I've noticed for a long time that Arnold's been somewhat at crossroads. He was successful in movies, got into politics and was like one of the anointed of the Republican party. But his political career is somewhat dead, he's foundering a bit and he's increasingly appeared more Austrian lately.

I think these culture differences were masked somewhat when he was in Hollywood. The movie business is so superficial anyway and you have to be brash, aggressive, and have a marketable image so it was easy to forget that Arnold grew up as the son of a tough-ass, small-town police chief. He initially embraced America as the land of opportunity with open arms and bitterly complained in his early years about what he saw as the Austrian custom of tearing your kids down to size which stifled ambition and initiative.

But over the years, I got the sense that he's come to terms with some of the things that he rebelled against in his early years and politics really brings out a person's real values - especially when they're the Governor. In short, I think that Arnie isn't as American as even he thought he was. He's definitely not the political figure the Republicans thought they had. So my guess is that the man Maria thought she was marrying is nowhere near the man she finds herself married to today and that can be a shock that is almost unsurmountable.

 

[TravelingGal]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

 

[Dreamer_D]

Celebrity marriages seem to end in divorce almost all the time unfortunately. Just the nature of the business I suppose. IRL, I don't know many people who are divorced.

living under the same roof won't make a bulletproof marriage, the chances that it'll work out in the long run are just a bit higher.

Actually, this is false. People who live together before marriage are slightly more likely to divorce than those who did not. In any case, I don't think you have to live together first to really get to know someone...you can live together with someone for years and not truly know him/her, or you can date someone for just a few months and know the person inside and out.

I wanted to just clarify this statistic, because it is one of the most misrepresented findings from close relationships research.

In general, accross a broad random sample, people who live together before marriage have a higher rate of divorce than those who do not.

BUT there is a very important exception to this rule that should not be overlooked (but often is). People who live together before marriage who are *engaged* or who have a very clear commitment to marry have divorce rates equal to those who do not live together before marriage.

I think that the focus on living together or not prior to marriage is missing the really important issue: are you on the same page and committed to a life together as a couple. If you have that commitment then choosing to live together or not prior to marriage is irrelevant for predicting the outcome of your marriage.

Instead, I think that statistic is suggesting that if you choose to live together and have NO plans to marry (mutually agreed upon anyways ), but then find yourself one day getting married to your partner in cohabitation, THEN divorce rates are higher.

I don't have stats on it, but I suspect the culprit behind the more general correlation is that living together makes it harder to break up, makes people *think* they are well suited to marry even when they are not, and getting married sometimes seems to best "next phase" in a relationship where you live togther. So if couple A and couple B are dating but have no plans to marry, and couple A opts to live together for various reasons and couple B does not, and both have equally crummy relationships, couple A is more likely to get married than couple B. This is likely because living together just increases the odds you will marry -- incremental commitment, social norms, barriers to breaking up (i.e., no place to live), "we are married already, why not make it official?" etc. Couple B will break up without ever getting married. And looking to the future, couple A is more likely to divorce than couple C, who did not live together prior to marriage, or couple D who lived together after getting engaged. Interestingly, couple A was as likely to break up as couple B, they just chose to get married before they broke up

But all this is not evidence that people should not live together prior to marriage. It suggests you should make the decision to marry prior to living together

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

Well I am not surprised. How sad for everyone.

Tonnes of money + fame + access to willing sex partners = infidelity. Even the most dedicated married man would have a hard time abstaining from infidelity in the type of circumstances that famous people find themselves in. I bet most famous couples have a "Just don't emabrass me!" rule. Which is why the marriages only end when the news hits the papers.

 

[Dreamer_D]

In my circle of friends I have found that people go through with the wedding and marriage despite being aware of major issues in the relationship. Not issues that are worthy of running out the door but things that should be worked through before marriage like communication. I also have friends who have gotten married despite wanting completely different things out of life. Theyvjuatvhope that the other will eventually give in to what they want.

It also seems to me that nowadays people are more fearful/ashamed of not going through with the engagement/wedding/marriage than they are of getting a divorce later down the line.

Most relationshps research suggests that this type of thing is the best explanation for divorce. They call it the "enduring dynamics" model. Basically, problems exist in the relationship prior to marriage and couples get married anyways for various reasons. Then, eventually, the constraints that keep them married -- financial, shame, stubborness, kids -- wear down or go away and the marriage ends.

There is not much empirical support for the most popular model of divorce -- that blissfully happy well cuntioning marriages fall on hard time out of nowhere. In omst cases, the problems are always present, people are just good at ignoring them, or the costs of divorce are just too high and htey stay in the marraige despite being totally miserable.

 

[AmeliaG]

This is interesting about Arnold and Maria. He fathered a love child 10 years ago and he just decided to tell her? Yeah, he waited until his Governorship was over but I wonder if he wanted to end the marriage and this was an easy way out. OK, I know, more speculation, but generally a marriage therapist will tell a guy, if this is past history don't try to clear your conscience by confessing it to your wife. Its the standard advice with affairs all the time, if the affair is over and done with, let it drop and just don't do it again, don't let a pang of conscience induce you to 'confess' to your wife. It will just add more pain to her.

 

[iugurl]

Even the most dedicated married man would have a hard time abstaining from infidelity in the type of circumstances that famous people find themselves in. I bet most famous couples have a "Just don't emabrass me!" rule. Which is why the marriages only end when the news hits the papers.

That is an interesting theory. I personally, doubt that most celebrity couples think it is ok for their spouse to sleep around, as long as they can hide it from the media. I think that some probably do, for sure! But I really don't that 50% or more have such an open relationship. But, who knows? You could be totally right. I just can't imagine a LARGE portion of celebrities agreeing to that.

Now politicians? I have a feeling that many spouses of politicians put up with cheating. I don't know if they necessarily think that it is OK, but they are hungry for power, or simply don't want their spouse to lose the next election.

But again, who really knows? It is so easy to speculate.

 

[Laila619]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

Loser.

 

[charbie]

This is interesting about Arnold and Maria. He fathered a love child 10 years ago and he just decided to tell her? Yeah, he waited until his Governorship was over but I wonder if he wanted to end the marriage and this was an easy way out. OK, I know, more speculation, but generally a marriage therapist will tell a guy, if this is past history don't try to clear your conscience by confessing it to your wife. Its the standard advice with affairs all the time, if the affair is over and done with, let it drop and just don't do it again, don't let a pang of conscience induce you to 'confess' to your wife. It will just add more pain to her.

Ok, I get what you mean here, but there's a big difference between confessing to a drunken one night stand and not telling your partner you fathered a child with one of your staff members who has been employed by you for over 20 yrs. Yes, I think he should have told her, and yes I think she leave him after hearing this news. I cannot imagine the betrayal she feels right now. And im one of the people who really despises divorce. I could not stay with my husband if he fathered a child outside our marriage while married to me, and I can only imagine I would want to pluck his toenails out one by one while pouring acid into the wounds if I found out about it 10 yrs later.

 

[AmeliaG]

Even the most dedicated married man would have a hard time abstaining from infidelity in the type of circumstances that famous people find themselves in. I bet most famous couples have a "Just don't emabrass me!" rule. Which is why the marriages only end when the news hits the papers.

That is an interesting theory. I personally, doubt that most celebrity couples think it is ok for their spouse to sleep around, as long as they can hide it from the media. I think that some probably do, for sure! But I really don't that 50% or more have such an open relationship. But, who knows? You could be totally right. I just can't imagine a LARGE portion of celebrities agreeing to that.

Now politicians? I have a feeling that many spouses of politicians put up with cheating. I don't know if they necessarily think that it is OK, but they are hungry for power, or simply don't want their spouse to lose the next election.

But again, who really knows? It is so easy to speculate.

Hmmm, I don't think of Schwarzeneggers as a political couple. He didn't get into politics until awhile after they were married but I think you make a good point about politician's marriages.

One of the Roosevelt grandchildren said that there would have been question about Eleanor leaving FDR due to his liaisons even if it had been socially acceptable back in those days. Their political beliefs were the cornerstone of their marriage, the rest of the stuff was less important. He was disappointed that she was not a compatible life partner and she was hurt by his liaisons but it didn't change the respect and admiration they had for each other as a political force and when push came to shove, what they most wanted as individuals was to work together as a team to achieve their political dreams. Companionship and marital fidelity, while it was important, wasn't the dealbreaker for them that it would be for other couples.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

 

[AGBF]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

You must have been asleep while Newt Gingrich was out running around on his second wife who was dying of cancer. Oh...and he was busy trying to impeach Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky thing at the same time. Is that it? Were you sleeping? Or you didn't know he was a Republican?

Deb

 

[TravelingGal]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

You must have been asleep while Newt Gingrich was out running around on his second wife who was dying of cancer. Oh...and he was busy trying to impeach Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky thing at the same time. Is that it? Were you sleeping? Or you didn't know he was a Republican?

Deb

Ooh yeah, we're SO ready for ATW election year 2012....

 

[AGBF]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

You must have been asleep while Newt Gingrich was out running around on his second wife who was dying of cancer. Oh...and he was busy trying to impeach Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky thing at the same time. Is that it? Were you sleeping? Or you didn't know he was a Republican?

Deb

Ooh yeah, we're SO ready for ATW election year 2012....

Well...not quite. First we have to get the admins to agree to let us have a little election time leeway with ATW.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I'm not going to be the one to start a new thread just about Arnold Schwarzenegger's affair*, but the woman with whom he had a child while he was married to Maria Schriver was "a" housekeeper of theirs, Mildred Baena, who is now 50.

AGBF


*I remember the nastiness and all the aspersions cast about the Tiger Woods thread! People who participated in the thread were castigated for their interest in Mr. Woods' sex life!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

You must have been asleep while Newt Gingrich was out running around on his second wife who was dying of cancer. Oh...and he was busy trying to impeach Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky thing at the same time. Is that it? Were you sleeping? Or you didn't know he was a Republican?
Deb

just off the top of my head...
JFK,Gary Hart,John Edwards,Bill Clinton,Eliot Spitzer.

 

[ForteKitty]

common denominator: they all have a penis

 

[monarch64]

common denominator: they all have a penis[/quote@!

Hhahahahaha! My ex had a penis and wanted to share it with everyone, swinger-style, although he wanted no one to know except him an me. I couldn't get "behind it." Hahahahahaha!

 

[ksinger]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

Nah. Just cheating with the opposite sex, as opposed to those fine republicans like Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, and Lonnie Latham (a married Tulsa minister caught trolling a local OKC gay hotel begging to "give" rather than "receive").

ETA - For the record, I don't particularly care who you're sleeping with, nor do I generally indulge in schadenfreude, but I did grimly enjoy watching these guys fall from their pedestals, since those pedestals were built of hypocritically condemning others for things they themselves were doing.

 

[AGBF]

ETA - For the record, I don't particularly care who you're sleeping with, nor do I generally indulge in schadenfreude, but I did grimly enjoy watching these guys fall from their pedestals, since those pedestals were built of hypocritically condemning others for things they themselves were doing.

It is also the hypocrisy that bothers me, not the, "morality". That's why Newt Gingrich doing it bothers me so much more than anyone else doing it, because while he was doing it he was preaching loudly against it. That is the definition of gall!!! If someone who believes in polyamory engages in it, then it is his business. What I would look at, not that it is my business, but I have eyes if the person is a public figure, is whether he appears to have hurt his family.

Deb/AGBF

 

[nkarma]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

You must have been asleep while Newt Gingrich was out running around on his second wife who was dying of cancer. Oh...and he was busy trying to impeach Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky thing at the same time. Is that it? Were you sleeping? Or you didn't know he was a Republican?
Deb

just off the top of my head...
JFK,Gary Hart,John Edwards,Bill Clinton,Eliot Spitzer.

Just off the top of my head....Mark Sanford, Newt Gingrich, John Ensign, Mark Foley, David Vitter, Larry Craig, Reagan....I am not sure which party does it better though. There are some pretty good ones on both sides (cigars, hiking the Appalacian trail, underage male pages, men's bathrooms)

 

[nkarma]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

Nah. Just cheating with the opposite sex, as opposed to those fine republicans like Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, and Lonnie Latham (a married Tulsa minister caught trolling a local OKC gay hotel begging to "give" rather than "receive").

ETA - For the record, I don't particularly care who you're sleeping with, nor do I generally indulge in schadenfreude, but I did grimly enjoy watching these guys fall from their pedestals, since those pedestals were built of hypocritically condemning others for things they themselves were doing.

HUGE DITTO! There are tons of videos of all these guys aggressively condemning gay people. It has gotten to the point that the more homophobic you are, the more likely you are to engage in acts that are not only homosexual (which I support but they publicly condemn) but also illegal (pedophilia & prostitution).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

Nah. Just cheating with the opposite sex, as opposed to those fine republicans like Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, and Lonnie Latham (a married Tulsa minister caught trolling a local OKC gay hotel begging to "give" rather than "receive").

oh,you forgot about Jim McGreevey (D).. whom had a beautiful wife ... admitted to an extramarital affair with a male staffer.

 

[ForteKitty]

again, it appears that no matter which political party or gender preference, the common denominator is the penis. i think that answers the OP's question...

So i just saw Arnie's mistress's pic... and i'm disappointed. His penis has bad taste.

 

[ksinger]

Well for all our theorizing, it was basically the same celebrity sh*t. He cheated on her and fathered a child.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43057177/ns/us_news-life/

..i thought cheating only applied to democrats..

Nah. Just cheating with the opposite sex, as opposed to those fine republicans like Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, and Lonnie Latham (a married Tulsa minister caught trolling a local OKC gay hotel begging to "give" rather than "receive").

oh,you forgot about Jim McGreevey (D).. whom had a beautiful wife ... admitted to an extramarital affair with a male staffer.

You know DF, I WAS merely replying in kind, lightly - since you tend to try to start s***. I would have hoped you'd have stopped with the bifurcations. But I'm not in the best of moods this morning and have to say...can you maybe, for ONCE, not try to split the world into 2 camps? PEOPLE have affairs and have been doing so for millenia. What does that fact have to do with political affiliation in America in the 21st century? Not a d*** thing.

 

[AmeliaG]

HUGE DITTO! There are tons of videos of all these guys aggressively condemning gay people. It has gotten to the point that the more homophobic you are, the more likely you are to engage in acts that are not only homosexual (which I support but they publicly condemn) but also illegal (pedophilia & prostitution).

Well, I don't know about the pedophilia and prostitution, but I'll have to agree with you on sexual tendencies. My father was always intensely politically conservative to the point of being reactionary and pretty uptight about anything to do with sex whether it was straight or not. (his sole 'talk' with my brother on the birds and the bees was 'keep it in your pants' I'm not lying)

Lately I've become friends with a dear man from our area who is openly gay and who reminds me so much of my father (without the political conservatism, of course) in the way he relates to people, his attitudes (outside of politics), his mannerisms, how he talks and how he walks, just his approach to life is so similar to my father, it is uncanny and he is openly gay. But where and when my father grew up, guys just couldn't come out. I don't think he ever seriously thought of it as an option.

 

[Ara Ann]

About men who cheat... Well...what about the willing women they are cheating with? In this case, this woman was just as much to blame as he was. She chose to stay in their employ 'until she had her 20 years in so she could retire' - umm, wow. That is ballsy. I kind of think this was her call, about the timing of releasing the info., she could have been blackmailing him this whole time, to keep her job, and who knows what other perks she was given over the years. I guess I am not as quick to throw the guys under the bus when it takes two to tango...there are plenty of women who pursue men this way...yes the guys can and should say no, but again, there are two people involved and both share the responsibility.


My husband was recently hit on by a female acquaintance who knows he is happily married and was not looking to stray...didn't stop her from trying though. Makes me sick.

 

[AmeliaG]

My husband was recently hit on by a female acquaintance who knows he is happily married and was not looking to stray...didn't stop her from trying though. Makes me sick.

But he had the choice to say no and he did. Your husband was a real man and acted like it. I really don't have sympathy for married men who have affairs and then blame it on the 'seductive' actions of their mistress. Arnie didn't have any control over what this woman did but Maria surely could have expected him to have control over what he did. There's got to be a point where the man takes responsibility for his own actions regardless of what situation he was in.

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by charbie » 17 May 2011 21:00
AmeliaG|1305658632|2924116 wrote:
This is interesting about Arnold and Maria. He fathered a love child 10 years ago and he just decided to tell her? Yeah, he waited until his Governorship was over but I wonder if he wanted to end the marriage and this was an easy way out. OK, I know, more speculation, but generally a marriage therapist will tell a guy, if this is past history don't try to clear your conscience by confessing it to your wife. Its the standard advice with affairs all the time, if the affair is over and done with, let it drop and just don't do it again, don't let a pang of conscience induce you to 'confess' to your wife. It will just add more pain to her.

Ok, I get what you mean here, but there's a big difference between confessing to a drunken one night stand and not telling your partner you fathered a child with one of your staff members who has been employed by you for over 20 yrs. Yes, I think he should have told her, and yes I think she leave him after hearing this news. I cannot imagine the betrayal she feels right now. And im one of the people who really despises divorce. I could not stay with my husband if he fathered a child outside our marriage while married to me, and I can only imagine I would want to pluck his toenails out one by one while pouring acid into the wounds if I found out about it 10 yrs later.

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Sorry, I didn't see this eariler. I get what you're saying about fathering a child being different than a one night stand. I was more thinking that fathering a child could have resulted in a one night stand or a brief relationship that had no meaning to him but still resulted in a child. I'm not married so maybe I am naive, but if I were confident that my current relationship were good, it would be hard to throw that away for something that happened 10 years ago. Of course, if it turned out he killed or raped somebody that would be different.

 

[Ara Ann]

My husband was recently hit on by a female acquaintance who knows he is happily married and was not looking to stray...didn't stop her from trying though. Makes me sick.

But he had the choice to say no and he did. Your husband was a real man and acted like it. I really don't have sympathy for married men who have affairs and then blame it on the 'seductive' actions of their mistress. Arnie didn't have any control over what this woman did but Maria surely could have expected him to have control over what he did. There's got to be a point where the man takes responsibility for his own actions regardless of what situation he was in.

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I agree with you 100%, however, I think they are both equally to blame, but he is the one getting hung out to dry, while she seems to be getting a free pass. She was married too! So Maria wasn't the only one cheated on.

Seems this way across the board too, with other guys, why aren't the women being held accountable in the same way, for becoming involved with a married man?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Ara Ann|1305811469|2925600-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I agree with you 100%, however, I think they are both equally to blame, but he is the one getting hung out to dry, while she seems to be getting a free pass. She was married too! So Maria wasn't the only one cheated on.

Seems this way across the board too, with other guys, why aren't the women being held accountable in the same way, for becoming involved with a married man?[/quote]


good Q Ara Ann,but of course we are not going to get any answers since PS is a 90% women forum.