Why is Diamond Talk discussion so critical of the HCA?

[valeria101]

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On 3/22/2004 3:15:13 PM derekinla wrote:



[...] it should come as no surprise that vendors will promote their products according to the information available and unique to their business in an effort to distinguish themselves from their competitors. ----------------

Good one

Actually, this is where one would draw the line: a quality check used ONLY by one seller to distinguish HIS stones from the rest is of little value for anyone else but himself. It takes at least a small community of competing sellers to validate such a tool. The strength of the results (technical backing, fesability, easiness to communicate them to buyers...and what not) make the tool valuable to sellers and buyers alike.

One may argue that lots of great cut grading tools are just 'new' so just one seller uses them because other did not have time to join in. Well, this is not a strong argument. It takes time to bring such an evaluation tool to market, and the HCA has passed the first stage. That it's results are in line with several alternative tools and have strong but easily understandable teoretical backing was enough for me

Sure there is more to the story - as Laegem says

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everyone!


I haven't been around for a while, but I decided to put my .02 in becasue this subject has taken a life of it's own.




As someone who buys millions of dollars a year in diamonds, I can tell you that I would NEVER purchase any diamond based on HCA, Brilliant Scope, FireScope, etc- or any machine or formula.




IF a trusted supplier tells me he's seen the stone and loves it, I'll take a chance and commit sight unseen- but even in these cases, I reserve the right to back out of the deal if I don't like to stone once I actually lay eyes on it. This is why consumers should only purchase from places giving a reasonable. money back guarantee




The numbers on a GIA report give all the preliminary info needed, if you wanted to reject stones based on depth or table size.


When I'm buying, I'm not interested in focusing on rejections, I want to see the stone that makes my heart sing.


Romance or not, there's no machine or formula which can assure you will love a diamond.




My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.


Use the time selecting the right vendor- such a vendor should discuss all these questions in detail, and assure you of a fair and safe transaction.




HAPPY SPRING!!!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 3/22/2004 5:34:34 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:


Hi Everyone!

My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Use the time selecting the right vendor- such a vendor should discuss all these questions in detail, and assure you of a fair and safe transaction.


HAPPY SPRING!!!
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Welcome back David - but I beg to differ. We are not trying to become experts. We are consumers trying to make an informed decision. I have seen too many consumers put their faith in a dealer/vendor & got screwed. They relied too heavily on the dealers opinion w/o trying to form their own objective opinion. Instead of thinking up their *own* priorities, they let the dealer run rough shod. In the beginning it could be hunky dory. But, when the money rolls in - human nature & the *need* to make more money enters into the picture. In fact, one such relationship where millions have traded hands is having it's say in NY Supreme Court.

Yah right - trust me - you'll love it.

Not to incite a flame - but I take insult to the fact that I interpret you viewing that the consumer doesn't need to worry their pretty little head. Facts, impressions & research just confuse us. I can assure you. It does *not* confuse me.

 

[dberg]

I saw this thread because it was linked elsewhere

"My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. "

David - with all due respect I find this comment rather insulting. I have always considered that the professionals on the various boards have believed that a smart consumer is an educated consumer. Indeed - that is why these forums exist - to discuss the trade and to educate the consumer. If I am wrong in that, somebody tell me now so that I can rearrange my thinking.

A consumer would be a fool to not consider all possible ways to find the best diamond they can afford or want. Whether you believe one tool is above another or that one tool should be disregarded entirely should not be a decision you make until you have researched it completely.

A little knowledge being a dangerous thing is probably only a dangerous thing if you stand to lose something from it.

 

[dberg]

Fire&Ice - Oops - we must have posted at the same time, and it appears we were offended by the same comment. You stated your view much more eloquently than I stated mine.

 

[mike04456]

Oh dear. I see now that these threads (here and elsewhere) have been cross-linked. Time to lock this one, methinks.




Let's not drag flamewars from other boards onto PS, okay?

 

[Mara]

"My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.


Use the time selecting the right vendor- such a vendor should discuss all these questions in detail, and assure you of a fair and safe transaction."





I will chime in as well and say this is a hugely insulting comment.




Little knowledge being a dangerous thing? Knowledge is an objective thing, personally some may feel they know more than others or know better...sound familiar? Everyone chooses to do things their own way. You obviously still believe in the old school B&M mentality of 'trust your jeweler'. Sorry, I don't trust anyone, least of all not someone who is making money off of my transaction. Call me foolish (as a vendor I wouldn't be surprised) but considering I am spending MY hard earned money...I want to know as much as possible about where it's going.




There are always going to be various types of consumers. There will be the types who prefer to let the vendor make the decisions for them, and those who prefer to use the vendor as a supplement to their own burgeoning knowledge. Avenues like Pscope exist for that 2nd type of consumer, and there are more of them out there than some vendors would like. I thrive on knowledge and don't think it's a dangerous thing. Only someone who stands to benefit from perpetuation of mis-information would say otherwise.




The above comment presumes that 'consumers' are not able to grasp the minute details of something like a diamond transaction. Not smart enough without a GG degree? Please. I can't even tell you how many emails and pm's I get from happy customers here on Pscope who thank me profusely for my help on Pscope. Obviously we are all doing something incredibly right here for so many people to be pleased with this type of venue, and if a venue such as Pscope, which thrives on education, makes a vendor's job harder...I'm sorry. Welcome to the new generation of diamond buying. Get used to it.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 3/22/2004 5:34:34 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:






As someone who buys millions of dollars a year in diamonds, I can tell you that I would NEVER purchase any diamond based on HCA, Brilliant Scope, FireScope, etc- or any machine or formula.




Romance or not, there's no machine or formula which can assure you will love a diamond.




And if you read the responses in this thread, David, you'll see that pretty much EVERYONE is in agreement with this. None of us would buy based solely on these tools and expect that they were a sufficient substitute for seeing a diamond in person. We're all on the same page as far as that goes.




My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.




There's a vast difference between trying to become an "expert" and trying to become an "informed" consumer.




Bottom line: David, if *you* are happy trusting someone else to make decisions with your money, that's great, and you should continue to make your purchases that way.



For those of us who are less comfortable with the blind trust notion, I think we'll continue to inform ourselves to our comfort level and make *our* purchases that way. Different strokes for different folks.

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[fire&ice]

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On 3/22/2004 5:59:41 PM LawGem wrote:


Oh dear. I see now that these threads (here and elsewhere) have been cross-linked. Time to lock this one, methinks.


Let's not drag flamewars from other boards onto PS, okay?
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I have to disagree. It is insulting what is being bantered about on the other forum. It is insulting to my intelligence as well.

1. Dealers only buy by their eye. That is absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps the final decision is made by the eye - as it should be. I certainly know my jeweler looks at the relationship between many of the numbers before he decides to take the next step. Why waste anyone's time? Yeah, that 68% depth stone looks great - send it in!

2. Consumers shouldn't worry about the numbers & just trust the vendor's eyes. Last time I looked, the consumer is the one who is purchasing. The consumer is the one who decides what pleases them. A consumer is not trying to become a "diamond expert" by researching and forming *their* opinion on what makes a beautiful diamond. It's called being an *informed* consumer. Not a "confused" one.

3. Things can be debated without the use of deragatory name calling.

 

[Mara]

No one is warring. People are making themselves seen and heard. I find this all very interesting. In more ways than one.

 

[valeria101]

Old school... new school...

A little info IS dangerous. Not trusting the seller - a no go.

There must be a way customers can get a 'feel' of their diamonds when buying online, and the HCA is just one such communication tool. It does not work on fancy colors and non rounds. There are other ways to present those. Anything online is a tool of building trust, ultimately: tutorials, certificates, little toys like the HCA... So are those great websites with professional pictures - like the AWESOME new one you have just put up David

Congratulations!

Sure this subject has a life of it's own. As far as I know, all major labs are somehow grading or preparing to grade cut, GIA included. It's a great life

with more numbers, more sales and more work for customers to understand what on Earth they are buying

Now, how wrong am I ?

 

[valeria101]

BTW, David, on your new site there is a very, very deep colored pink stone. Obviously a serious gem by any standard

Can we know a bit about it ? Really unusual !

 

[mike04456]

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On 3/22/2004 6:13:54 PM fire&ice wrote:





3. Things can be debated without the use of deragatory name calling.

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Well, derogatory name-calling is exactly what's going on "elsewhere," and people are now coming over here to continue the arguments.

I have no problem whatsoever with a discussion of the merits of the HCA; I would just like to do it without it becoming a cross-forum flamewar. Leonid has asked that we not bring disputes from other forums on PS, after all.

 

[Mara]

LawBond...as long as things here on PScope are civil...I personally don't care a whit what goes on on the other sites. They aren't my concern. I suggest we keep the lines of communication open so that all can be heard.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

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On 3/22/2004 5:44:40 PM fire&ice wrote:

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On 3/22/2004 5:34:34 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:








Hi Everyone!


My advice to consumers: Don't waste time trying to become a diamond expert. This is really a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.



Use the time selecting the right vendor- such a vendor should discuss all these questions in detail, and assure you of a fair and safe transaction.






HAPPY SPRING!!!
----------------

Welcome back David - but I beg to differ. We are not trying to become experts. We are consumers trying to make an informed decision. I have seen too many consumers put their faith in a dealer/vendor & got screwed.

Thanks for the welcome!

Your statement above seems to prove my point- NO Matter how good the numbers of a diamond might seem- CHOOSE THE WRONG SELLER, AND YOU COULD GET SCREWED

They relied too heavily on the dealers opinion w/o trying to form their own objective opinion. Instead of thinking up their *own* priorities, they let the dealer run rough shod. In the beginning it could be hunky dory. But, when the money rolls in - human nature & the *need* to make more money enters into the picture. In fact, one such relationship where millions have traded hands is having it's say in NY Supreme Court.

This again comes down to bad sellers. Can a consumer be so very sure they are knowledgable enough to make this important and costly decision without the benefit of a helpful seller?....Well, after 30 years as a diamond grader, I still call on friends in the field to make sure I'm making the correct decisions.

My comment came from my desire to see people treated fairly. If someone reads forums and decides they are an expert, I feel they are easy prey for sellers with no integrity.

I'm not suggesting people do NOT research- just keep it in perspective.

A "tool" like the HCA gives people a false sense of security.



Yah right - trust me - you'll love it. Now here's a red flag! If a dealer treats you in such a way, find the door ( or use the back button on your browser)

Not to incite a flame - but I take insult to the fact that I interpret you viewing that the consumer doesn't need to worry their pretty little head. Facts, impressions & research just confuse us. I can assure you. It does *not* confuse me.

I take great pains to educate the folks that choose to shop with us. Our website has a lot of useful info. Plus, I participate in forums designed to educate the consumer.

fire&ice, I'm sure you would not get confused easily- but I've found that a dishonerable seller might even confuse a diamond professional.

How about this? The forums give a very good starting point- but ultimately, picking the correct place to buy is the most important decision.

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[glitterata]

Add me to the list of people insulted by the notion that mere consumers should trust the jeweler and not worry their pretty little heads about the details of their potential purchases.

Sure, the HCA isn't the last word. But nobody said it was. What folks here DO say is that it's a good first cut--a good way to narrow the field.

I can see how sellers who own stones that perform badly on the HCA wouldn't want consumers using it to eliminate their stones. I'll even be generous here, and assume that some of their badly-performing stones also look nice. Fine. But that's not a reason for CONSUMERS to avoid the HCA. If the tool weeds out most of the horribly performing stones, who cares (from a consumer's point of view) if it also throws out a few stones that look nice?

Consumers aren't looking to identify every single nice-looking stone in the whole world. We're just looking for ONE nice stone. (Or maybe two, if we're in the market for earrings.) If the HCA can help us narrow down the field so we identify some likely winners to look at more closely--good!

And if that means that we end up not doing business with people who insult our intelligence, so much the better.

 

[mike04456]

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On 3/22/2004 6:25:13 PM Mara wrote:







LawBond...as long as things here on PScope are civil...I personally don't care a whit what goes on on the other sites. They aren't my concern. I suggest we keep the lines of communication open so that all can be heard.

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Well, so far so good.

It's just that the title of this thread seems like waving a red flag in front of a bull to me...

 

[mike04456]

Now, with those provisos, a couple of things.




Sarin machines are used by every major lab including GIA and AGS. Among other things, they use them to "fingerprint" a diamond for identification should it ever be resubmitted in hopes of getting a better grade. They are also used worldwide by diamond manufacturers and wholesalers. The company has been around for 15 years--not exactly a fly-by-night operation waiting for someone to cry "the emperor has no clothes."




Like any machine, a Sarin is only as good as its operator. Being unable to get consistent results with one probably says more about the person using it than the machine itself. After all, if it were that unreliable, why would the company be so successful? Why would anyone buy their products?




If "predicting diamond performance by the numbers" is total bunk, then GIA, AGS, MSU, and a lot of other people and organizations have wasted a great deal of time and money on nothing. Would so many intelligent and well-educated people really go on making such egregious errors?




There is still a ways to go here--but the emperor is indeed clothed.

 

[mountainrocks]

First, I have no dog in this fight. I have a square diamond so the HCA wasn't a factor. I think that most of the disagreement here is healthy, it's a lot of interesting, educated people who love diamonds and really want consumers to get great diamonds for a fair price. It's fine that there are disagreements about how that goal can best be accomplished.

Here's one question that I have: Are there examples of beautiful round diamonds that get high scores (say over 5) on the HCA? If so, can someone post pictures/specs of those diamonds? If the HCA is as bad as its detractors say it is, it seems that there should be scads of stones that get bad scores but still look great.

 

[valeria101]

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On 3/22/2004 7:08:15 PM mountainrocks wrote:



Here's one question that I have: Are there examples of beautiful round diamonds that get high scores (say over 5) on the HCA? If so, can someone post pictures/specs of those diamonds? If the HCA is as bad as its detractors say it is, it seems that there should be scads of stones that get bad scores but still look great.

----------------

It's been a long jurney with Universities and Labs involved to get to a decent definition of what diamond good looks mean in terms of phisical measurements. And, of course, there will always be something left aside any measurement for the eye of the beholder to enjoy.

Any diamond looks good in some way and for some people. There are quite a few rings made with uncut diamonds... Any extreme choice will have a follower.

BTW "good" HCA score is above 2, by makers' definition. A score of 5 already barks - also, by HCA makers' definition.

The system itself was made and put up there because other online representations of diamonds are even more imperfect (pictures, just numbers...) and the better ones would either be too technical (say, Sarin reports alone) or not free (DiamCalc).

Hope something short of a full-blown sensitivity analysis of the HCA will end this thread

Do you REALLY want one?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

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On 3/22/2004 6:43:17 PM glitterata wrote:

















Add me to the list of people insulted by the notion that mere consumers should trust the jeweler and not worry their pretty little heads about the details of their potential purchases.

Add me to the list of people feeling that consumers are never "mere"- they are people, to be treated with respect. Add me to the list of people who feel consumers should be given FULL disclosure - whatever the seller knows, should be presented to the consumer.

Add me to the list of folks who find value in an open discussion about diamonds- thier merits and drawbacks- and how to purchase them

Sure, the HCA isn't the last word. But nobody said it was. What folks here DO say is that it's a good first cut--a good way to narrow the field.

I can see how sellers who own stones that perform badly on the HCA wouldn't want consumers using it to eliminate their stones. I'll even be generous here, and assume that some of their badly-performing stones also look nice. Fine. But that's not a reason for CONSUMERS to avoid the HCA. If the tool weeds out most of the horribly performing stones, who cares (from a consumer's point of view) if it also throws out a few stones that look nice?

If you think dealers might shy away from HCA because they own stones which don't score well, you'd first have to find a dealer who uses it at all- I know of no dealers using this "tool"

Consumers aren't looking to identify every single nice-looking stone in the whole world. We're just looking for ONE nice stone. (Or maybe two, if we're in the market for earrings.) If the HCA can help us narrow down the field so we identify some likely winners to look at more closely--good!

Of course folks are only interested in the diamond THEY will be owning.

My contention is that HCA gives NO useful info.

And if that means that we end up not doing business with people who insult our intelligence, so much the better.
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Sarin reports are very useful to those in the trade.

They are used for identification, measurements- I've seen cutters use them to get exactly the proportions they wanted to acheive.

But what would YOU do with a Sarin report? It's pretty much useless to a consumer unless they see the stone that goes with it.

If the numbers are bad ( take an RBC with 67% depth) you really won't need a machine ( or an expert) to see that.

On the other hand- if the machine tells you it's the best diamond in the world but you don't like it, what then?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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On 3/22/2004 6:43:17 PM glitterata wrote:

Add me to the list of people insulted by the notion that mere consumers should trust the jeweler and not worry their pretty little heads about the details of their potential purchases.

-------

HA, me too! Isn't the whole point of this web site AND DT to educate OURSELVES so we don't have to rely upon the BS that many jewelers feed us, especially when working with morons who try to sell overpriced crap in the mall!?!

Funny that this comment is by a HCA pesimistic person primarily active on DT

Michelle

 

[mike04456]

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On 3/22/2004 7:30:42 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:

On the other hand- if the machine tells you it's the best diamond in the world but you don't like it, what then?

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I am not privy to how the HCA works and have not tested it against anything, so I hold no opinion on whether it works. But let's at least stop mischaracterizing it as having been presented as some Holy Grail of Diamond Shopping. This is the disclaimer that appears with every result:

Even though HCA grades cut more effectively than systems like the AGS, it does not yet factor in symmetry and minor facets. Having found a diamond that scores well, you should employ an expert appraiser to examine the stone. If you decide not to, then at least compare the diamond to others and/or view it through an ideal-scope.

A score below 2 (Excellent) means you have eliminated known poor performers (more than 95% of all diamonds). Your own personal preference may be for a diamond with an HCA score of 1.5 more rather than one with a lower score of say 0.5.

Note what it does not say: The diamond is not guaranteed to be attractive--it just eliminates most bad ones. The HCA is not perfect--there are things it does not consider. And even if the results are good, you should retain expert assistance to confirm the results.

I find those qualifications perfectly reasonable.

And this is why I compare this argument to debates over evolution--opposing sides so often mischaracterize what the other side supposedly believes that it's often very difficult to determine what, exactly, is being discussed. /idealbb/images/smilies/nono.gif

 

[fire&ice]

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On 3/22/2004 6:36:27 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:

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On 3/22/2004 5:44:40 PM fire&ice wrote:





CHOOSE THE WRONG SELLER, AND YOU COULD GET SCREWED

They relied too heavily on the dealers opinion w/o trying to form their own objective opinion. Instead of thinking up their *own* priorities, they let the dealer run rough shod. In the beginning it could be hunky dory. But, when the money rolls in - human nature & the *need* to make more money enters into the picture. In fact, one such relationship where millions have traded hands is having it's say in NY Supreme Court.

This again comes down to bad sellers.

Yes, we can be in agreement about the sellers. We are not in agreement w/ the sellers methods - ON EITHER SIDE of this debate. And, the responsibility of the consumer to do their homework.

Bad seller in the case of the the multi million dollar complaint. Um Boy, I'm not even going to go there. The seller was dangled a multi-million dollar carrot in front & a *buyer* who should have done due dillegence during the whole process. It's not the seller's fault...per say....but a spin...an irresponsible, uninformed consumer.

My point, David, they didn't choose the wrong seller. They were the *wrong* consumer. Never did the proper homework.

You can sing your praises all day long. Maybe they are warranted. But, if I did business with you - 1. I'd check you out & 2. I'd have my ducks in a row through research - on what I wanted. 3. I would run from a vendor that thought my research was confusing me. ...because honestly - It doesn't.

Bottom line - the numbers *do* mean something.

 

[glitterata]

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On 3/22/2004 7:30:42 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:

----------------

On 3/22/2004 6:43:17 PM glitterata wrote:




















Sure, the HCA isn't the last word. But nobody said it was. What folks here DO say is that it's a good first cut--a good way to narrow the field.


I can see how sellers who own stones that perform badly on the HCA wouldn't want consumers using it to eliminate their stones. I'll even be generous here, and assume that some of their badly-performing stones also look nice. Fine. But that's not a reason for CONSUMERS to avoid the HCA. If the tool weeds out most of the horribly performing stones, who cares (from a consumer's point of view) if it also throws out a few stones that look nice?

If you think dealers might shy away from HCA because they own stones which don't score well, you'd first have to find a dealer who uses it at all- I know of no dealers using this 'tool'


No, I don't think dealers might shy away from HCA because they own stones that don't score well. I think dealers might tell CONSUMERS to shy away from the HCA because they--the dealers in question--might own such stones.



My contention is that HCA gives NO useful info.



Really? No useful information? None at all? Then maybe you can answer Mountainrocks' question and give us a few dozen examples of badly-scoring, gorgeous rocks.


----------------

If the numbers are bad ( take an RBC with 67% depth) you really won't need a machine ( or an expert) to see that.

If the numbers are bad, you don't have to bother looking at the stone. That's the point of the HCA--to help people decide which stones not to bother looking at.

On the other hand- if the machine tells you it's the best diamond in the world but you don't like it, what then?

Then you don't buy it, of course. As everyone keeps saying, the HCA is useful to help narrow down which stones to look at more carefully.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 3/22/2004 7:08:15 PM mountainrocks wrote:




Here's one question that I have: Are there examples of beautiful round diamonds that get high scores (say over 5) on the HCA? If so, can someone post pictures/specs of those diamonds? If the HCA is as bad as its detractors say it is, it seems that there should be scads of stones that get bad scores but still look great.

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Don't hold your breath.......it won't happen. The HCA may eliminate too harshly from time to time, but I've yet to see anyone in 18 months post a beautiful stone here that the HCA said would bark.

Further......if it did work that way, I doubt you'd hear as much opposition.....because then it would benefit the vendor instead of the consumer.

 

[aljdewey]

David, this is really getting tiresome.




Read this very, very carefully: NO ONE is suggesting that the HCA can "decide" what diamond your eye will like. Comprende?




It can help narrow the field, but it is NOT NOT NOT supposed to be a substitute for seeing a diamond.




Can we PLEASE all get on the same page with that? You keep arguing and arguing a point that NO ONE is disagreeing with - that the HCA can't guarantee your eye will like a diamond. We *all* get that.

 

[hoorray]

I think it is sometimes reasonable to "trust your jeweler" to pick a fine stone (better to have them pick a few fine stones for you to choose the final one), if you have a trusted jeweler to do that. Trusted is the key word here and implies experience with them. But how many first time jewelry buyers have a trusted jeweler, or know how to find one at the ripe old age of 22? And on that note, how many people come here to say "they have this stone that a trusted friend or relative tells them is a great deal for a great stone" and it really isn't.

All of these tools are just tools to help people go through the buying process sight unseen. That's the other part to this. If you had 10 stones and all their specs in front of you, with the help of a trusted expert you could make a safe and great choice. With online buying, you need some tools to limit the field -- even if you eliminate some opportunities.

 

[noobie]

Boy this thing has grown a life of it’s own.If I had of known the kind of ruckus this has stirred up, I would have never started this thread.But, since I did…

I’ve learned quite a bit pertaining to the original questions, about buying diamonds on-line and people’s views on the subjects.I have to agree with the majority opinion here regarding vendor’s expert opinion as an overriding factor in picking a diamond.I need to look as much data as is available, sarin, firescope, magnified photos, certificates as well as the vendor’s opinion and make my final judgment.

Getting back to my original questions:

Cut Nut: If I understand the article you posted correctly, it states that 9% of the light passes through the pavilion of a diamond. Is that typical of ideally cut diamonds and how much light leaks from non-ideal stones?You mentioned that there are diamonds that perform well on the HCA, yet are poor in real life.Is there any way that a consumer can tell this, short of looking at it? (Please for others, don’t tell me to have the trusted vendor look at it)Also, I’ve been thinking about some of the responses and am wondering if there is some degree of confidence in the HCA scores based on the symmetry rating of the diamond. Since averages are used it would just seem logical that an ideal or excellent symmetry stone would have an HCA score that was more reflective of how the diamond would perform in real life.

Leonid: When I first came this forum a few weeks ago I was impressed at the helpful and friendly nature of this place.If you feel that this discussion degenerates in any way, I respectfully ask you to remove it.I don’t want to be responsible for starting something that is not in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

OK- maybe I am dense.


What exactly is the point?


The assistance of an "expert appraiser" is reccomended. So you'd need to find an"expert appraiser" who uses or reccomends the HCA.- there's not a lot of those.




Now, everyone remember, this is a conspiracy. I work for Debeeeers and I'm singlehandedly trying to brainwash the world ( heheheh)




The truth is, I'm very passionate about diamonds- they've been my life and livelyhood.


I apologize to those who felt insulted because I gave my opinion. We actually all agree- because the HCA itself reccomends you find the proper expert.




When someone calls me asking for advice, I give it to the best of my ability.


Sure I want to sell diamonds, that's what I do for a living.




Of course the numbers mean something.


Before I see a diamond I might ask about the table and depth to get some idea. Yes, there are combinations which are bound to look horrible. But I've seen very nice stones with 80% depth.




If a radiant is cut well, and it's got an 80% depth, it might look very nice- I've seen stones with 80% depth that were quite attractive in terms of sparkle and life- albeit small for it's weight.




But say the buyer understands that they can actually own a 1.00 for the price of an .90, or even a .80's price, well that might make someone very happy. It look like an .80 costs like an .80, but it actually weighs 1.00carat- for some people that's a very important consideration.




I'm not in this thread for any other reason than I am saying what I believe. I honestly do not find value in the HCA.


Clearly, based on this argument, others find merit with it.


Can we simply agree to disagree about this particular subject?




I sincerly wish EVEYONE here on PS only the best.