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Why does hearts and arrows matter?

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tortoisetim

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
3
It seems to me that some people make hearts and arrows out to be a bigger deal than it should be. A well cut stone is a well cut stone, and your going to get the same sparkle and fire whether the facets line up precisely at the girdle or are off a bit. A jeweller of mine was showing me hearts and arrows on a diamond and explaining that some people pay a premium to have that. I asked him to show me as best he could two diamonds with similar cut quality, one being h&a, the other not. He found two comparable stones. I couldn''t tell the difference in terms of brilliance and fire. It just doesn''t matter.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
The same can be said for the difference between a D and an E, or between a IF and a VS2.

Some people like to pay more to know that they got the "best" for one or more of the diamond grading factors.

I tend you agree with you, but there are quite a few people out there who think differently . . .
 

MichelleCarmen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
15,880
Hi,

I tend to agree with you. My eng. ring is *just* an ideal cut and it's AMAZING! Prettier and more fiery than any other ring I've seen in person! But, the deal is I bought it off line and was able to check it out before shelling out money. If and when I buy a diamond online, I would almost definetly buy a H&A since I'd want another amazing stone and wouldn't want to risk it being a dud (not to say not buying a H&A would automatically mean a lame stone, it's just that I do think it's a bit riskier buying w/out seeing first


Michelle
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
Hi,
I definitely agree that there is an element of personal taste to this issue. When I first started looking, I thought I didn't want to pay extra for that. However, I ended up getting a SuperbCert with a good h&a pattern and 1) it was a great price for the size and quality regardless of h&a and 2) I find that I love seeing the arrows when I look into the stone. So h&a might not automatically mean overpaying, and there is a noticeable visual effect that can be seen with the naked eye--one that some people enjoy. (Not sure if the arrows effect shows up in non h&a stones though...)

-Anna Magdalena
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
That is the reason some people buy Fords and others buy BMW's. Some buy at K-mart and others at Saks 5th Ave.

If you compare a 1ct F VS1 very good very good to a .97 G VS2 good good you will not see the difference. If you compare that same 1ct F VS1 to a 1.07 E VVS2 excellent excellent you still may not see the difference. But for sure if you compare the .97 G VS2 gd gd to the 1.07 E VVS2 you will see the difference.

Your money, your call! I make recommendations but I don't tell you what to buy.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
----------------
On 4/14/2003 5:48:55 PM dimonbob wrote:

That is the reason some people buy Fords and others buy BMW's. Some buy at K-mart and others at Saks 5th Ave.

----------------

It is also the reason why some people want the little blue box from Tiffany.
 

Heyjud

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
243
The little blue box dosen't guarantee
That the diamond inside
Is cut perfectly

But hearts and arrows are always true
Besides----
You don't wear
That box of blue !
 

new new

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
12
will the heart and arrow be seen with naked eyes easily or some H&A viewer tools are needed? under all kinds of lights or some kinds of lights?
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
----------------
On 4/14/2003 11:52:15 PM new new wrote:

will the heart and arrow be seen with naked eyes easily or some H&A viewer tools are needed? under all kinds of lights or some kinds of lights?
----------------

Once the stone is set you cannot see the hearts. Whether you can see the arrows depends on the size of the stone.
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
Most non-H&A stones are not comparable in cut. However, you are right that if you can find a well cute stone that is not H&A, that will not carry the H&A premium. Still, you don't want this to happen with your "ideal" cut stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_61ct_g_si2_ideal.htm

I'd rather have this stone than the stone above: http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_05ct_h_si1_ags4.htm

But you can see in the above stone that there is a degree of symmetry and a type of arrows present. Totally crap symmetry is unlikely to produce a well cut stone and is likely to result in an arrows effect if present, so searching for a well cut non H&A (and we're not talking slightly imperfect so not sold as one http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_026ct_g_si2_ags0.htm, we're talking like the first stone above) based on the information available via the internet doesn't make much sense.

But you are right, I don't really care if my stone exhibits a crisp H&A pattern when looked at through a special viewer, I just care about the "wow" effect. But I think it is a mark of precision in achieving that wow effect, though not always a guarantee.
 

new new

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
12
well, I saw the pic posted by diamond buyers here, they are all H&A ideal cut, but I don't see the arrows. only from the sellers web site pitures, I can see the arrows.
so does this mean only under certain light and condition, the arrows can be seen by naked eyes? how easy are they to be seen?
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
In my mind, H&As are not an end in itself, but a certain guarantee of a well-cut stone. Granted, there are non-H&As that perform better than some H&As, but at least with a H&A I know there's a certain measure of internal symmetry that will give me a certain level of light performance.
 

Heyjud

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
243
I agree with Rough Rock
Hearts and Arrows guarantee
The diamond is well cut to glow
With perfect symmetry

I've seen them and they do perform
That no one can deny
They're cut so well - that you can tell
When you look with your naked eye!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
----------------
On 4/15/2003 1:33:42 AM phoenixgirl wrote:

Most non-H&A stones are not comparable in cut. However, you are right that if you can find a well cute stone that is not H&A, that will not carry the H&A premium. Still, you don't want this to happen with your "ideal" cut stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_61ct_g_si2_ideal.htm

I'd rather have this stone than the stone above: http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_05ct_h_si1_ags4.htm

But you can see in the above stone that there is a degree of symmetry and a type of arrows present. Totally crap symmetry is unlikely to produce a well cut stone and is likely to result in an arrows effect if present, so searching for a well cut non H&A (and we're not talking slightly imperfect so not sold as one http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_026ct_g_si2_ags0.htm, we're talking like the first stone above) based on the information available via the internet doesn't make much sense.

But you are right, I don't really care if my stone exhibits a crisp H&A pattern when looked at through a special viewer, I just care about the "wow" effect. But I think it is a mark of precision in achieving that wow effect, though not always a guarantee.
----------------
Oh I love it when people do their homework!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
I'd like to add my .02c here if I may.

Like everyone else I too was very skeptical when I heard of Hearts & Arrows. I thought ... oh my another meaningless gimmick! That's all we need right?

Let me tell you why H&A is important to the aesthetic beauty of a diamond.

I'm going to focus primarily focus on the arrows or face up position since all diamonds are mounted face up.

When you witness the optical phenomena of the "arrows" what you are viewing or witnessing are the function of the pavilion main facets which are directing light (or in the case of the H&A viewer the flat white viewer) that is coming directly from above, reflecting within the diamond and reflecting that light straight out through the crown. When the pavilion and crown facets are cut to the proper angles to give this optical effect THE REAL WORLD RESULTS of this means blinding fire! The pavilion main facets, IN A HEARTS AND ARROWS DIAMOND will give the most beautiful display of colored light that EVERY LAYMEN that comes into our store can see this EASILY. It doesn't take a genius to tell which is the most beautiful diamond when taking the Pepsi challenge.

Phoenixgirl had rightly pointed out some example on our website of diamonds that are not sold as Hearts & Arrows diamond yet the pattern is present (though not as perfect as the others on our site).

The point I would like to make is that what is observed critically in the viewers is a beauty that is appreciated MORE without the viewers. There is more to this as well. I've been primarily focusing on how these diamonds look in direct light (intense fire, and when the minor facets have been cut to certain dimensions INTENSE SCINTILLATION TOO!), but the other added benefit to H&A diamonds are their appearance in low light or soft light conditions.

This is a perfect symmetry that is beheld with the eyes. The softer or more diffuse the light source is the easier it is to see it. Attached is a pic that shows this under no special scopes. While all diamonds share a degree of beauty, these are some features and benefits that H&A owners enjoy that no other diamond purchaser does.

Peace,
Rhino

havsnonid.gif
 

caratgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
634
You know, when I first started to look for a new diamond, I didn't want to pay the premium for a H&A diamond, but then I lucked into a non-branded H&A that is just gorgeous (1.90 F VS2) from Brad & Jan at Diamond Brokers of Florida (my husband was convinced that I would just browse forever - I sure showed him! Of course, now we also have a new Harley for him). I can definitely say that it was worth it. Instead of seeing just random chunky flashes of color sparking from the diamond, I see entire arrows of color flash, starting in the center all the way to the edge. You really can see distinct arrows. I do like that look better, but I still think that it is a matter of personal opinion. I just happen to be fixated on diamonds, so I figured I better get a nice one or I would obsess forever!
 

SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
same reason why some people buy BMW's and why some people buy M3's



 
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