Why do some settings look better/different than others?

[acv123]

Looking into setting a loose diamond and have been getting some quotes from a few different vendors. I noticed something while looking at some of their past work and was hoping you all could help me figure it out! All images are from reputable, well reviewed vendors and I think all of the settings are beautiful but it seems like some settings appear more lightweight to me (top two images). They almost look tinny. None of these are hand-forged as far as I know and I am familiar with the density of hand forged items and the work that goes into that but I'm wondering why the appearance of cast settings varies so widely. Anyone with expertise or ideas let me know!

Thank you!





VERSUS

 

[edelweissmaedl]

one thing I noticed was the top images have a lot of melee and the bottom images are more metal....so its not a great apples to apples comparison

 

[Octo2005]

Skill level of the jeweler will have a huge impact on the finesse of the finished project.

The later 2 photos (the halo and the collage) I believe are by CVB and she is know for her delicate and detailed pieces. I believe that even though the piece is cast, all of the milgrain is added by hand after.

Whereas, your first two photos are cast pieces and much of the intricate detailing is "muddled"

 

[Octo2005]

If you post a photo of your dream ring, I am sure that someone here can probably help determine who made it or at least recommend a designer that will execute a beautiful ring inspired by your dream ring

 

[acv123]

Thanks @Octo2005 here is what I am thinking--its a mashup of two single stone settings but instead of 4 double claw prongs i'd like to do a simple 6 prong head.

 

[ringo865]

Do you have a profile pic of that inspiration ring?

Im thinking Caysie (CVB) or David Klass (DK) in LA could easily do it (possibly different price points).

 

[tyty333]

Do you have a profile pic of that inspiration ring?

Im thinking Caysie (CVB) or David Klass (DK) in LA could easily do it (possibly different price points).

Ditto...Caysie would be my first choice but if not in budget DK should be able to execute. Caysie is more of an "artist" while
David will execute exactly what you design.

 

[Niel]

Millgrain should be done by hand. Even if the item is CAD. A lot of what you’re seeing is poor finishing work.

 

[Karl_K]

The first ring has the look and of the type that a double mold method is used.
A master ring is created, then a removable moid is formed around it.
Wax is then injected into the mold, then removed from the mold.
Then the wax is encased in a second mold and burned out.
Then that mold is used to cast the ring.

The first mold can be used more than once and the master ring can be used thousands of times.
It is an economical way to create complex rings.
The end result is soft features and blurring of edges because of the double mold, but results in a fully functional ring at a price point several magnitudes lower than doing it all by hand.

Sometimes an original period ring will be used as the master ring which results in even more blurring and softness of the features.

 

[metall]

The first ring has the look and of the type that a double mold method is used.
A master ring is created, then a removable moid is formed around it.
Wax is then injected into the mold, then removed from the mold.
Then the wax is encased in a second mold and burned out.
Then that mold is used to cast the ring.

The first mold can be used more than once and the master ring can be used thousands of times.
It is an economical way to create complex rings.
The end result is soft features and blurring of edges because of the double mold, but results in a fully functional ring at a price point several magnitudes lower than doing it all by hand.

Sometimes an original period ring will be used as the master ring which results in even more blurring and softness of the features.

With the understanding that this is a cheap way to mold a "unique" ring, couldn't a jeweler go back and refine the details?

I'm sure that it is a very laborious and boring task but I feel like even molded pieces could look better/worst based on who finishes a piece.

 

[Karl_K]

With the understanding that this is a cheap way to mold a "unique" ring, couldn't a jeweler go back and refine the details?

I'm sure that it is a very laborious and boring task but I feel like even molded pieces could look better/worst based on who finishes a piece.

Yes and no.
It can only be cleaned up to a point on a complex peice.
Going over everything would take as long as making it from scratch, and if the metal isn't there you can't add the detail.
The majority will just be buffed and shipped.
The goal is to keep them affordable.

Many designer rings are made using the double mold method so it is possible in simpler designs.
They spend a lot of money creating master rings for the molds.

 

[pyramid]

I have seen pictures where they make a ring tree with lots of wax rings and cast it so they have like 50 rings all the same.

Also before this fashion of thin rings, people on here were complaining of rings which were cast being thin at the back. I remember one vendor telling us that moulds were sold onto other manufacturers who made models and then new moulds, so that these cheaper thin rings were coming from a third or fourth mould and each time a ring was produced and polished it lost some metal so the next mould was taken from a new thinner but unworn ring. I think it is fascinating those ring trees and how they come out shining gold after the wax has melted and gold added through the spru which controls the air and liquid gold being poured through. Porosity is also something they have to check for so you can imagine what third mould rings may look like. Probably couldn't do a fine detail and polish on them for opening porous holes to the surface.

 

[pyramid]

Before Karl hit the nail on the head, I was going to say the first two look rhodium plated which can look a bit tinny especially when done on a poor surface like those double moulded rings. Would look better on plain shiny ring.

 

[Karl_K]

I have seen pictures where they make a ring tree with lots of wax rings and cast it so they have like 50 rings all the same.

Yes, many of the master models are an entire tree of rings.
Others the wax rings are fitted to a tree then cast.
It is not really economical to cast just one ring in a shot so multiple waxes are added to a tree.
You also get fewer issues casting a tree than casting single rings.

Just to clarify my earlier post.
Designers will often cast the rings without the small details, just extra metal for them then add them later by hand.

 

[metall]

Just to clarify my earlier post.
Designers will often cast the rings without the small details, just extra metal for them then add them later by hand.

Gotcha! I was reading this the opposite! makes more sense now Thank you!

 

[Karl_K]

Gotcha! I was reading this the opposite! makes more sense now Thank you!

No problem.
I realized, I had switched types without enough explanation.
They are really 2 different types made by the same base method.
One is cast with all the details already in the master ring. and the other is cast without the details and they are added later.
The price and finish levels are in different ballparks.

The first setting is clearly of the first type.

 

[acv123]

Do you have a profile pic of that inspiration ring?

Im thinking Caysie (CVB) or David Klass (DK) in LA could easily do it (possibly different price points).

I'd like the profile to look something like either of these so that you can see the metal between the prongs from above.



Got quotes from both those vendors and DK came in higher. Also went to Ivy and Rose who came in in at under 3k.

 

[acv123]

Millgrain should be done by hand. Even if the item is CAD. A lot of what you’re seeing is poor finishing work.

Thank you! I think the finishing is what I was noticing.

 

[acv123]

The first ring has the look and of the type that a double mold method is used.
A master ring is created, then a removable moid is formed around it.
Wax is then injected into the mold, then removed from the mold.
Then the wax is encased in a second mold and burned out.
Then that mold is used to cast the ring.

The first mold can be used more than once and the master ring can be used thousands of times.
It is an economical way to create complex rings.
The end result is soft features and blurring of edges because of the double mold, but results in a fully functional ring at a price point several magnitudes lower than doing it all by hand.

Sometimes an original period ring will be used as the master ring which results in even more blurring and softness of the features.

Wow thank you for explaining the process. This is exactly what I wanted to know. So it seems like its just been copied over too many times and loses some detail. I don't think it will be an issue for me as I'm not looking into having any millgrain or carved elements but its interesting to know what I'm seeing in those first photos.

 

[acv123]

Yes and no.
It can only be cleaned up to a point on a complex peice.
Going over everything would take as long as making it from scratch, and if the metal isn't there you can't add the detail.
The majority will just be buffed and shipped.
The goal is to keep them affordable.

Many designer rings are made using the double mold method so it is possible in simpler designs.
They spend a lot of money creating master rings for the molds.

So do you think a ring designed from scratch would have these issues? I'm trying to figure out if its an issue with the fabricator/jeweler or the particular ring being made.

 

[acv123]

Before Karl hit the nail on the head, I was going to say the first two look rhodium plated which can look a bit tinny especially when done on a poor surface like those double moulded rings. Would look better on plain shiny ring.

Thank you! I was wondering too if maybe it was just that the yellow gold looked richer than the white gold of the two top rings. Probably also has a lot to do with the smoothness of the band.

 

[Karl_K]

So do you think a ring designed from scratch would have these issues? I'm trying to figure out if its an issue with the fabricator/jeweler or the particular ring being made.

The specific issue of the first ring posted, not likely at all.
It is not a method that works with one of rings.

There are a lot of different ways what you want can be made at different price points and refinement levels.

Off the top of my head:
For something like your first inspiration ring.
cad/wax/cast either as one piece or 2 depending on if 2 colors of gold are used or not.
Totally hand forged in one color or 2.
Cast or hand forged head/top and die struck shank in one or 2 colors.
The one in the photo is 2 cast parts put together.

The second would be either cast or hand forged.
The one in the photo is most likely cast.

A third option is a premade setting or assembling parts from someplace like stullers.

 

[mrs-b]

I'd like the profile to look something like either of these so that you can see the metal between the prongs from above.



Got quotes from both those vendors and DK came in higher. Also went to Ivy and Rose who came in in at under 3k.

DKJ has been employing some much higher quality bench people. In fact, they've employed more than one VERY high quality bench (think 'ex Harrry Winston'), plus two micro pave specialists - also both very good. Consequently, their work has increased in price, and their turn around time has slowed down.

But on the VERY obvious up-side, the work they're turning out is top notch. And more elements of each design are being hand forged.

 

[rockysalamander]

Thanks @Octo2005 here is what I am thinking--its a mashup of two single stone settings but instead of 4 double claw prongs i'd like to do a simple 6 prong head.

That's a great mashup. I second David Klass. You might have a look at Erika Winters designs. She has a lot of 8-prongs and 6-prongs with similar very structured bands. But, I really like the double-prongs for this kinds of ring personally.

 

[acv123]

Ditto...Caysie would be my first choice but if not in budget DK should be able to execute. Caysie is more of an "artist" while
David will execute exactly what you design.

Contrary to what I'd read on most threads CVB is in budget and DK is out! Sounds like most everyone has had a positive experience and outcome working with CVB.

 

[Octo2005]

Not sure where you are in your process, but I saw this and it reminded me of your inspiration pic. It is a preloved LM that includes a 1.01 cushion. Very reasonably priced for the completed piece as a hand forged piece can >$5000 for just the setting.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1...-mege-french-cut-diamond-solitaire-gia-e-vs2/

 

[acv123]

That's a great mashup. I second David Klass. You might have a look at Erika Winters designs. She has a lot of 8-prongs and 6-prongs with similar very structured bands. But, I really like the double-prongs for this kinds of ring personally.

Yes I've seen her work before in person and loved it. Someday I'll post all the great things I tried on at Greenwich Street Jewelers in NY. The gallery rails on that first ring are so pretty!

 

[acv123]

Not sure where you are in your process, but I saw this and it reminded me of your inspiration pic. It is a preloved LM that includes a 1.01 cushion. Very reasonably priced for the completed piece as a hand forged piece can >$5000 for just the setting.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1...-mege-french-cut-diamond-solitaire-gia-e-vs2/

Thats beautiful! I already have a 2ct OMC stone so not in the market for a completed ring but if I were starting from scratch I would definitely look into this one. Is hand forged markedly better than cast? I'm thinking I'll be going with CVB and I think she only does cast..?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I can tell you is that CVB does beautiful work. She's a gifted ring designer and the diversity of her pieces shows it. Her bench is excellent. The only downside is that sometimes it takes longer than expected as she stays very busy. But with each piece I have had her make, I know I will receive an heirloom at the end, so it's well worth waiting for! I do not worry about cast versus handforged because some designs are better made in one than the other.

 

[acv123]

All I can tell you is that CVB does beautiful work. She's a gifted ring designer and the diversity of her pieces shows it. Her bench is excellent. The only downside is that sometimes it takes longer than expected as she stays very busy. But with each piece I have had her make, I know I will receive an heirloom at the end, so it's well worth waiting for! I do not worry about cast versus handforged because some designs are better made in one than the other.

Thank you for that testimonial! I'm moving forward with Caysie and it helps to know you've had multiple positive experiences with her.

Shoutout and thanks to everyone else who commented on this thread! Will start a new one with info about the stone and setting ideas Thanks again and Happy Happy New Year!