why do i want to get married again?

[AceP]

my bf and i got into a marriage conversation yesterday as we were talking about some practical aspects of long term planning regarding careers, moves, etc. i''m, frankly, a little fed up with the fact that we can discuss kids, down payments, blah, blah, but marriage is this taboo topic because it''s his timeline to set. i''m sure many of you feel me on that one. so we''re talking about the possibility of taking a decadent vacation is the next few months, and we''re questioning when we''d possibly take the next one. and i''m like, umm - honeymoon? when will that be? and he says he basically has no timeline in his head for when we would get married. which i pretty much figured and was glad to have confirmation on. and his whole argument - this is not the first time i''ve heard it - is that he''s never been around a happy marriage, he essentially thinks it''s impossible, and he''ll do it because i want to and he cares about me, but it''s not something he''d ever feel a need to seek out. and he''s like, WHY do you want to get married? and i have to admit, i see his point. we live together, we''re already making long term plans, we don''t want kids for awhile, neither of us is religious at all - so why do i care? and the best argument i could come up with on the spot is that marriage is the ultimate commitment. and i would like to stand up and make that commitment to him - and i wish he wanted to make it to me. but please - remind me - why do we want to get married? i need to give him a compelling argument besides that i know it''s kind of old fashioned but i just feel like it...

 

[aprilcait]

I believe you "ultimate commitment" argument was perfectly solid. The base reason, as I see it, for getting married is professing to your friends, loved ones, and partner that this is the person that you will spend the rest of your life with, and that your are making a legal and spiritual commitment to this person because of your love for him/her.

 

[janinegirly]

ace, boy can i relate to this one. my bf said the same things yours did. we also plan/ planned elaborate vacations which i was simultaneously thrilled at (exotic vacations!) and annoyed at (shouldn''t we be save this destination for a honeymoon?!).
First thing you need to do is yes, firm up why it is you want to be married. God knows there''s nothing wrong with it, and you''re just like a majority of women, but seeing how your bf seems to have some "mule like" traits (will drag his feet), you need to be clear, firm and upfront on this otherwise he''ll just take thigns at face value and procrastinate or do nothing (ie no timeline, wondering what''s the big deal).
To remind you, or let you know my reasons on why marriage is important:
-yes, it''s the ultimate form of committment in society today, who would not want that from a partner (this is why the gay community is fighting for it!)
-it allows for the true merging of a couple on all levels: emotional, traditional, legal, financial. This provides the ultimate SECURITY for the woman
-it''s the ultimate sign of romantic devotion: hasn''t been around for thousands of years for nothing!
-how others perceive a gf is different from a wife. Ok, maybe this seems silly, but i don''t think so. I don''t like being just a "gf", it sounds so juvenile and we live together, pretty much exists as a married person, so i want to be viewed in society as I am in actuality.
There are other reasons, sure, but these were some of mine. Notice none of them have to do with kids, religion. It''s not fair that your bf has things as he wants them, so therefore just wants to cruise indefinitely. It''s important to YOU, it should be important to HIM, and he should therefore show action.
Good luck. Here''s to hoping my "mule" shows some action too, it is a very frustrating position to be in.

 

[Cailet]

Date: 10/26/2006 4:55:38 PM
Author: janinegirly


ace, boy can i relate to this one. my bf said the same things yours did. we also plan/ planned elaborate vacations which i was simultaneously thrilled at (exotic vacations!) and annoyed at (shouldn''t we be save this destination for a honeymoon?!).
First thing you need to do is yes, firm up why it is you want to be married. God knows there''s nothing wrong with it, and you''re just like a majority of women, but seeing how your bf seems to have some ''mule like'' traits (will drag his feet), you need to be clear, firm and upfront on this otherwise he''ll just take thigns at face value and procrastinate or do nothing (ie no timeline, wondering what''s the big deal).
To remind you, or let you know my reasons on why marriage is important:
-yes, it''s the ultimate form of committment in society today, who would not want that from a partner (this is why the gay community is fighting for it!)
-it allows for the true merging of a couple on all levels: emotional, traditional, legal, financial. This provides the ultimate SECURITY for the woman
-it''s the ultimate sign of romantic devotion: hasn''t been around for thousands of years for nothing!
-how others perceive a gf is different from a wife. Ok, maybe this seems silly, but i don''t think so. I don''t like being just a ''gf'', it sounds so juvenile and we live together, pretty much exists as a married person, so i want to be viewed in society as I am in actuality.
There are other reasons, sure, but these were some of mine. Notice none of them have to do with kids, religion. It''s not fair that your bf has things as he wants them, so therefore just wants to cruise indefinitely. It''s important to YOU, it should be important to HIM, and he should therefore show action.
Good luck. Here''s to hoping my ''mule'' shows some action too, it is a very frustrating position to be in.

let me just play devil''s advocate here:
with the divorce rate what it is -- the seeming rampant marital problems / cheating spouses (if all the talk shows are to be believed!) -- and the uncertantity of the world in general --

it seems a wee bit old fashioned to state that a marriage is a way to bring security FOR THE WOMAN. Maybe it''s the wanna-be feminist in me that rejects this thought (do I really need a man to be secure??) and maybe I am reading too much into this statement ---- but just my 2 cents.

 

[Mara]

you don't NEED to give him any sort of compelling argument. what you feel is what you feel and it's not right or wrong nor do you have to have some super rational reason for wanting to get married. you feel like it's what you want to do because of what you said, ultimate committment. he doesn't agree.

i wouldn't even bother trying to come up with some compelling argument for him, it is not like he is going to go 'oh yeah you know what, you are right! lets do it'.

you two are in two different camps right now. what IS important at this point is for you to determine: can you live like this with him for the rest of your life and be happy with the way things are? if not, then you need to tell him that you cannot compromise on this and discuss what your options are.

 

[Cailet]

Ok - that being said -- my reasons for wanting marriage:

I do see it as a commitment we need to make to each other.
I see it as the start of being not just "the two of us" but of being a family.
I am religious to a degree so there is a wee bit of the guilt there
His family is VERY religious/traditional and while they have always treated me as if I were a daughter, I know that they do not see me as part of the family until we are married -- and really the same thing on my family''s side to a lessor extent.

And sometimes there are those reasons you can''t explain but you can FEEL. I FEEL that I want to be married to this man and now that I actually feel that there really isn''t any going back to being ok with just being gf/bf

 

[janinegirly]

i don''t necessarily agree, mara (although i almost always agree w/your posts!). my bf does not think marriage is that important. he''s a guy, what''s the benefit, he''s got me living with him, we''re a long term couple,etc. etc. Just like how many of us have "talks" on the future, sometimes we need to express to them why it''s SO important to us (b/c often the guy is on a different wavelength, if he doesn''t have conventional factors pushing him to marry such as religion, societal pressure, family--he won''t necessarily be drawn to it). Sometimes they just need to see the girl''s perspective, and often when it''s someone they care deeply about, it helps them move forward, b/c they want to do it for her (which is very different from being forced). Guy soon and Girl soon are different, and so are guy priorities, girl priorities.

 

[Mara]

janine, of course if people DO have legitimate reasons they feel really strongly about in terms of wanting to get married, by all means communicate that to the guys. but ace is asking US why she should want to get married. she says she NEEDS to be able to tell him why she wants it so badly. but to me if she can't come up with another reason other than ultimate committment then that should be *enough* to express to him. i don't know that she should need all sorts of valid reasons because to me her reason IS very valid, it's because she really wants it and she feels like it's the ultimate committment.

he already said he'd do it for her, so i guess i also wonder well why doesn't he isn't open to discussing a potential marriage timeline. he should be asking her 'okay so well you know my feelings but i know you really want it and i can do it because of that, so when do you want to do it'. why is the ball even in his court? if he doesn't CARE necessarily..i'd be like hey okay so next week? hahha.

bottom line is that if ace or any other gal feels strongly about getting married, then that has to be taken into consideration regardless of the 'reason' given.

 

[Allisonfaye]

I think what you should do is spend some time thinking about why it is important to you.
Is it possible that you think your reasons for wanting marriage are not valid? Whatever reason you want to, IS valid. You don''t want anything unreasonable. It is your value. It is not your BF''s.

I do agree with Mara when she says that for the most part if you say to your BF ''I want to get married because of reason A or reason B'', he is unlikely to go, oh, ok. I see. Let''s get married.

 

[janinegirly]

ah mara i see. I agree with everything you say. her reason is enough and reasons should come from the heart anyway. i just thought maybe she''d drawn a blank and was looking for more reasons from those who can relate, b/c sometimes we have feelings in our heart that we can''t verbalize as well.
i agree he should be more open to the timeline and not so lacidaisacal. she shouldn''t have to plead her case like a lawyer in front of a judge.

 

[Maria D]

Date: 10/26/2006 4:35:03 PM
Author:AceP
and his whole argument - this is not the first time i''ve heard it - is that he''s never been around a happy marriage, he essentially thinks it''s impossible, and he''ll do it because i want to and he cares about me, but it''s not something he''d ever feel a need to seek out. and he''s like, WHY do you want to get married? and i have to admit, i see his point. we live together, we''re already making long term plans, we don''t want kids for awhile, neither of us is religious at all - so why do i care? and the best argument i could come up with on the spot is that marriage is the ultimate commitment.

I don''t think you should worry about being "on the spot" because what you came up with really is best argument for marriage in a society where living together is totally acceptable! In fact, it''s probably the only argument these days.

I agree with Mara that this isn''t a debate where you have to come up with a good enough argument to convince him -- and that an argument isn''t likely to convince him anyway. That you want/care about marriage is enough.

Where you say "i have to admit, i see his point" is interesting to me, just because as someone who did not live together with DH before marriage I find the whole dynamic interesting. In this forum, women seem to go from being OK with living together without being married to not being OK with it. I have to admit, I can see his point too! From the guy''s point of view, everything is going along great; why change things. For the woman (I''m generalizing here, not talking specifically about you), it can become an ordeal because she also feels everything is great -- so great that she wants commitment to permanence. In order to get that, she''s left to nagging or asking for timelines and maybe turning her life upside down (moving out) to enforce them. Yeah, I know I''m sounding preachy. Don''t worry, it''s the last I''m ever going to say here about the evils of living together as a "trial" for marriage!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I like the exchange in that journalism movie with Michele Pfeiffer and Robert Redford (forgot the name, sorry), where he asks why she wants to get married. She says, "I want you around in the mornings." He says, "You''ve already got me around in the mornings." She says, "I''d like to know you''re legally required to be there."

OK, so your boyfriend wants to approach this like a logical exercise, I''m game. Here are some arguments:

*He likes the status quo, but the status quo half depends upon you. If you become frustrated in the relationship or begin looking outside of it for potential marriage partners, there goes his status quo.

*His saying that he''s never known a happy married couple is really ridiculous. That''s like in Two Weeks Notice when Sandra Bullock tells Hugh Grant he''s the most selfish person in the world, and he says, "Now that''s just silly. Have you met everyone in the world?" (You have to believe me -- I don''t usually quote movies, especially twice in one post). He wants to argue rationally about whether or not to get married and his only evidence is subjective and anecdotal? What kind of a modern man of logic extrapolates that because the few cases he has seen seem to have something in common, therefore all the cases in the world must as well?

*Marriage has its benefits . . . the obvious legal ones, but also the unspoken respect given to your relationship by strangers. Maybe that doesn''t mean much, but it can head off all sorts of headaches . . . being hit on, having to explain who you are when visiting your SO at work or in the hospital, etc.

Honestly, I liked your argument: "i know it''s kind of old fashioned but i just feel like it..." Except, it''s not old fashioned. That makes it sound like there''s a stigma against it, which maybe there is to your boyfriend. So your boyfriend, the one who thinks he''s so in tune with the modern world, really just cares what other people think of him? Not so modern after all!

The question can also be turned around. So ask him . . . if we''re already committed, already living together, already talking about the future, then why not reap the societal and legal benefits of a marriage? Divorce would not be all that much messier than breaking up, so why not get married? Honestly, proving to him that his objections to marriage don''t stand is a whole lot easier than suddenly convincing him that marriage should be his #1 priority. I think he''s put the onus of selling marriage on you just to put off having to make a decision about it a bit longer. So turn the tables on him and put the onus on him to convince you that marriage isn''t necessary. And he''s going to need to come up with something better than a vague comment about observing unhappy marriages. You two are not a lab experiment, and your relationship, married or not, will be what you make of it. No marriage certificate will suddenly make a good thing go sour.

 

[aljdewey]

Maybe this will help: http://www.ralphewilliamson.com/CM/Custom/FAQs-Family-Law.asp

These two are especially important:

1. If one spouse becomes ill or incompetent, the other spouse generally has the right to make decisions on the ill spouse''s behalf.

No matter how close the bond or how long the relationship has existed, a cohabitant may lose out to immediate family members when it comes to making decisions for an incapacitated unmarried partner, unless a general power of attorney and health care power of attorney give that authority to the cohabitating partner.

2. When one spouse dies, the other spouse has the legal right to inherit a portion of the deceased spouse''s estate.

When one cohabitant dies, his or her property will pass to whomever is named in the will or, if there is no will, to family members according to the laws of intestate succession. The surviving partner has no claim to the estate unless he or she was named in the deceased partner''s will.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 10/26/2006 10:26:09 PM
Author: phoenixgirl

I like the exchange in that journalism movie with Michele Pfeiffer and Robert Redford (forgot the name, sorry), where he asks why she wants to get married. She says, ''I want you around in the mornings.'' He says, ''You''ve already got me around in the mornings.'' She says, ''I''d like to know you''re legally required to be there.''

OK, so your boyfriend wants to approach this like a logical exercise, I''m game. Here are some arguments:

*He likes the status quo, but the status quo half depends upon you. If you become frustrated in the relationship or begin looking outside of it for potential marriage partners, there goes his status quo.

*His saying that he''s never known a happy married couple is really ridiculous. That''s like in Two Weeks Notice when Sandra Bullock tells Hugh Grant he''s the most selfish person in the world, and he says, ''Now that''s just silly. Have you met everyone in the world?'' (You have to believe me -- I don''t usually quote movies, especially twice in one post). He wants to argue rationally about whether or not to get married and his only evidence is subjective and anecdotal? What kind of a modern man of logic extrapolates that because the few cases he has seen seem to have something in common, therefore all the cases in the world must as well?

*Marriage has its benefits . . . the obvious legal ones, but also the unspoken respect given to your relationship by strangers. Maybe that doesn''t mean much, but it can head off all sorts of headaches . . . being hit on, having to explain who you are when visiting your SO at work or in the hospital, etc.

Honestly, I liked your argument: ''i know it''s kind of old fashioned but i just feel like it...'' Except, it''s not old fashioned. That makes it sound like there''s a stigma against it, which maybe there is to your boyfriend. So your boyfriend, the one who thinks he''s so in tune with the modern world, really just cares what other people think of him? Not so modern after all!

The question can also be turned around. So ask him . . . if we''re already committed, already living together, already talking about the future, then why not reap the societal and legal benefits of a marriage? Divorce would not be all that much messier than breaking up, so why not get married? Honestly, proving to him that his objections to marriage don''t stand is a whole lot easier than suddenly convincing him that marriage should be his #1 priority. I think he''s put the onus of selling marriage on you just to put off having to make a decision about it a bit longer. So turn the tables on him and put the onus on him to convince you that marriage isn''t necessary. And he''s going to need to come up with something better than a vague comment about observing unhappy marriages. You two are not a lab experiment, and your relationship, married or not, will be what you make of it. No marriage certificate will suddenly make a good thing go sour.

I wholeheartedly agree with Phoenixgirl''s points. It shouldn''t be an argumentative thing when a couple is contemplating marriage, to me. Even though you''re living together, you still have leverage, AceP. I''m not talking about ultimatums, here, but I do think that the ball is in your court now, and you have the power to either settle for a relationship that is lacking the sort of committment you require to be happy, or walk away and find the man who will step up to the plate and win the game (the game being you!). Obviously, I know things like this aren''t that simple, but really...it''s not fair of him to let his unfortunate experiences affect your life as well. Everyone makes choices in life, and he has the choice to determine whether his potential marriage will be a happy or unhappy one. For him to say that he''s not in favor of marriage due to past experiences is a cop out in my opinion. We all have the power to learn from experiences and make necessary changes to ourselves and our lives in order to be successful at things, marriage included.

 

[Julian]

Here's the argument from a male perspective... Last night I was thinking about a friend who is dying to get married and asked my DH, "Why do people NEED to get married?"

It was kind of a philosophical question. I mean, I would love, honor & cherish DH either way...married or not. If we were to have kids (maybe soon) that makes a solid reason. But otherwise, I wondered why exactly.

So we kind of had a fun debate about it with me being the Goldie Hawn-Kurt Russell advocate and him being the 'Til Death Do Us Part advocate.

Basically, in guy terms... he said it is the ultimate commitment. They like having a "wife" over a "girlfriend" at some point in their lives. Makes it more like a lifelong partner by your side and everyone takes your relationship more seriously. It is a milestone in life. He DID acknowledge that it was also due to societal markers... so that in society's eyes people would know our level of commitment and love to each other. So it's also to announce to the world that we were man and wife, I guess... showing our love for each other. (But then I would argue, who cares about society?) We are Christian, so marriage was natural. But then again, it is 2006. We didn't live in our parents' homes before getting married -- if you know what I mean.

In the end, I didn't think they were INCREDIBLE reasons. We agreed that all the things that paper gives us we do over and beyond for each other anyway. I guess it's the world we live in!

But there is something very special about vowing before family and friends to honor, cherish and love each other forever. I guess that kind of makes it "official." And before God, it is a rite of passage and a deeper commitment.

 

[nejarb]

Let''s say you and your BF go through your entire life together unmarried and just deal with the complications of this--explaining it to others, not recieving each other''s benefits like health ins, etc, and then find yourselves 85 years old and living in a retirement community together. If he''s a little senile and he starts spending time with one of the other ladies there and you tell him "honey, I''M your girlfriend," he could say "well, she is too."

But if you are married, you can say to him "I''M your wife honey. Remember we got married back in 2007?"

This is teh reason I would give him for getting married. Life happens so fast and that seems like a long time from now, but you''re already on your way so it''s a good place to be when yuo know who you want to go through that life with and you commit to it.

marraige is the ultimate public commitment. If you commit to anything publicly you''re more likely to be serious about it and to keep your commitment.

 

[AceP]

well, pheonixgirl, i can actually really relate to my bf when he says he doesn''t know any happily married couples - i can''t say that i know too many, either! and, that said, i''ve always been a little ambivalent on marriage.

the living together part is tough. it was something that i hesitated to do, maria - i see all of your points. in the end, practical concerns won out - money, primarily. saving money for the future trumped getting my own place because of my idiosyncratic hesitations about living together before marriage.

and - while he has said time and time again that he knows marriage is important to me, so he''ll do it for me, i''d almost rather keep things the way they are than feel like he''s doing something he doesn''t want to do. of course, what i really wish would happen is that he would have an "aha" moment and realize that marriage IS the logical next step. not going to happen, apparently...

 

[janinegirly]

hmm, ace, reading your last post it sounds like you''re not necessarily convinced of your own reasons for wanting marriage and are resigned to the status quo.
living together does make things difficult, b/c the guy gets comfortable. For me, I made it CLEAR before moving in that this was a step towards marriage and a temporary state. My bf acted as if this was so obvious. Well a year later (almost), he is comfortable and not compelled to move things forward. So even if you do the right things before moving in, it doesn''t guarantee anything, so it''s difficult for the girl. Anyway, I''ve since had many talks with the bf and made it clear I cannot accept anything less than marriage. He tells me he''s on board and "working on it". I give it another month, so we''ll see. I guess my point is if your bf uses the "if it''s important to you, it''s important to me" line, then start telling him he needs to show it. I feel like you''re just letting him do everything on his terms.

phoenix girl: love the movie quotes!

 

[Julian]

Ooooh! OK, so I was working out this morning and this popped into my head.

I would imagine it''s like raising a foster child... they know you are their parents, they know you love them. But it is DIFFERENT from becoming adopted. It becomes more official that way. You belong, you have a place in the world and are part of a family for life.

You belong to each other by law and to the world. You know? Sometimes we need that. To have a place in someone''s life that tells the world what you two already know. Sacred vows... it''s a rite of passage that has stood the test of time.

So few things in the world are sacred, precious or revered anymore. Maybe we need something to hold on to, those vows that announce our intentions to honor and cherish one person for one lifetime. It''s just so romantic and beautiful, too. The strength of marriage can anchor generations to come, you know? LOL. Maybe I''ve been watching too much Lifetime TV!

 

[Mara]

i definitely agree that you sound a bit resigned to what you might perceive as your 'fate' ace. it's sad actually...i hate to hear it.

in terms of the whole 'i don't know any happily married couples'...that's like 'well my friend jumped off the bridge'...are you going to do it too? just because? or are you smarter than that. you and he are not other married couples. i know my share of happy and unhappy couples. greg's parents were divorced that was part of his hesitation on wanting to get married. i told him this same thing. we are not our parents. we are not our friends. what we do has nothing to do with anyone else.

some couples say that when they get married, not a thing changes, it feels absolutely the same to them as living together. for us it was radically different...mentally really. just silly things like getting a card at the store for my husband or 'from your wife' was sooo cheesy but we both loved doing it. on our first anniversary we both got the cheesiest 'for my husband' 'for my wife' cards ever and it was great. taking his name was another exciting change. inside our household, not a whole lot changed, mostly just getting bills to my new married name was kind of a big thing, we were like oooh look. but for some people that's no biggie! and not a requirement.

the thing for me is that if i really wanted to be married to my man..and he didn't want to be married to me and instead just said he'd do it because i wanted him to, i'd really have to question my future. is this really the person i want to be with? we have such different views on this particular thing. could that mean we could exist happily for a lifetime? was i comfortable with this bf/gf thing for life? and if not, something would have to give. no way could i just 'resign' myself to it being that way if it was not what i really wanted down in my heart.

i think you need to have that conversation with yourself ace. for me sticking around because you don't want to lose him is not the way to go. figure out what you really want and then go for it, and it make take a bit of compromise on both your parts but it doesn't have to be his way or no way just like it shouldn't be your way or no way either. also yes i don' tthink waiting for him to have that blinding epiphany when he says flat out he really doesn't believe in marriage is in your best interest either. you may just have to marry him knowing that he doesn't want to be married.

good luck.

 

[AceP]

janine - sounds like you and i are in very similar situations. my bf, too, made it clear that he understood that i viewed moving in together as a step toward marriage. that said, we''ve only been living together for a few months and i''m already frustrated at his inertia - so perhaps that''s my fault for capitulating when maybe i should have just dealt with the poverty and gotten my own place for a year. i know he''ll propose eventaully because he knows i require it; he knows i''m fixated on it but i don''t think he gets just how much his lethargy bothers me. i don''t think he understands the level at which it hurts me - what he sees as a philosophical stance, i see as a personal reflection of his feelings. i probably should tell him that.

mara - i do think the unhappy marriage thing is a legit argument. too many people are well-intentioned but just can''t make it. i can understand treading very carefully. that said, at some point, when you love someone and you decide you''re in it for the long haul, i believe you''ve got to take the plunge. half of us will get divorced, and that sucks. no question. but i''d like to believe that if you''ve known someone for a long time, you''re a thinking, responsible adult, and you take marriage seriously, your chances are a bit better. hopefully.

and i''m not sticking around because i don''t want to lose him. i''m sticking around because he''s my best friend and i love him endlessly. and i know he feels that way about me. he will compromise - he will marry me eventually. i just wish the whole thing didn''t make me so damned uneasy. i really wish i didn''t *need* marriage. sometimes i wonder if i would care at all if i didn''t face this constant haranguing from my family, if it would bother me so much...

 

[youngster]

Date: 10/27/2006 10:50:00 AM
Author: Julian
Ooooh! OK, so I was working out this morning and this popped into my head.

I would imagine it''s like raising a foster child... they know you are their parents, they know you love them. But it is DIFFERENT from becoming adopted. It becomes more official that way. You belong, you have a place in the world and are part of a family for life.

You belong to each other by law and to the world. You know? Sometimes we need that. To have a place in someone''s life that tells the world what you two already know. Sacred vows... it''s a rite of passage that has stood the test of time.

So few things in the world are sacred, precious or revered anymore. Maybe we need something to hold on to, those vows that announce our intentions to honor and cherish one person for one lifetime. It''s just so romantic and beautiful, too. The strength of marriage can anchor generations to come, you know? LOL. Maybe I''ve been watching too much Lifetime TV!

That''s very nicely put Julian.

I don''t post too often but I''m really compelled to in this circumstance as I have been helping the friend of a friend go through a difficult, painful break-up with her long-term live-in boyfriend. (I''ve been helping with the financial angle of it. I''m a CPA.) Without getting into the spirtual/mental aspects that others have addressed so well, marriage is important from a financial standpoint as well.

In the case I''m helping with, this friend has been living with her boyfriend for the past eight years or so. She put her career on the back burner, went to work for him at his business, they bought a house together. She always expected that they would eventually get married. However, he would always find reasons to put it off. (Everything is going so well, why rock the boat . . .) Well, a few months ago, he announces that he wants to end the relationship. Truly, out of the blue. Wants her to move out of their house! Has tried to recast their relationship from committed couple to owner/tenant. Basically telling her that she has no equity in the house as he carried the majority of the mortgage and paid for most of the repairs/maintenance. (Which he did.) He also wants her to find a new job. So, as "just the girlfriend", she''s really up a creek. She doesn''t have the same rights as a wife. It will be much much harder for her (if not down right impossible) to claim any of his social security, pension, future income, his other assets, etc. (She does have a family law attorney who is advising her as she may have some legal rights since their relationship has been so long-term and her name is on the title of the house and the mortgage so she will get her share of the equity, no matter what he says.) But, it has been devastating to her, not just emotionally, but financially as well.

Obviously, no one should get married for financial reasons, but they are a factor to seriously seriously consider when considering a long-term live-in only relationship. Especially, once you leave your carefree and often asset-free youth behind. Rights that belong to a wife must be fought for by the live-in girlfriend.

 

[AceP]

youngster - while i certainly agree and see your point, that''s not the case with me. in my current situation, marrying would be a financial detriment, at least for right now. for the moment, not only do i out-earn him significantly, but i have a sizeable 401k and a pretty good chunk saved for a down payment - not to mention a whole lot more financial know-how. he has nothing but a tremendous pile of student loans! and i absolutely would not buy a home without being married. that''s a recipe for disaster.

 

[fire&ice]

To the legal issues that have already been addressed - even if you have a living will, etc that "legally" binds you - it may not be recognized in certain states. Here in the Commonwealth, a marriage amendment is being proposed that has some legal language that could be interpreted as legal unions will not be recognized.

Bottom line - if you desire marriage & your partner does not, either you must accept it AS FACT IT MAY NEVER HAPPEN or leave the union.

 

[youngster]

Hi AceP,
I guess what I''m trying to communicate is the difficulties/challenges regarding financial issues for those in long-term live-in relationships way down the road. Ten, twenty, thirty years out. Not when you are just starting out, in your 20''s or very early 30''s. He may have a big pile of student loan debt now and you may have the solid finances, but what about 20 years from now? He''ll have established a viable career no doubt, paid off his student loans. Maybe you''ll have kids and one of you will stay home or cut back on work to be with them. What are your obligations to one another? What are your obligations to one another in the case of illness or disability? When a couple has been married, there are laws to protect their interests, though I guess those laws can vary by state. It''s a lot more murky when it comes to live-in relationships. Before too many years slip by, I''d be consulting an attorney familiar with these issues in your state.

 

[ImpatientOne]

Mara echoes my thoughts exactly! Mine is a long story, but to cut to the chase, I spent 10 years as a single mom after my divorce and did not date at all. When I finally started dating two and a half years ago, I knew that I would want to be married again some day. I dated a lot of men during that time, and I always made sure to find out what the guy was looking for before it got too serious. I was able to weed out the ones who said they''d be happy never being married again.

To me, marriage is the ultimate committment. At one point I was seeing someone who said he''d like to be married one day, and I actually ended up dating him for a year and a half, but when it was clear to me that he was not interested in marriage, I moved on. He was a wonderful, loving man and I would have had anything my heart desired material-wise, but no marriage. I walked away and I kept looking until I finally found someone who values marriage as much as I do.

At this time I am waiting for a proposal, which he assures me is forthcoming. We have both agreed that neither of us wanted to go into a marriage unless we were certain that our partner was bringing the same level of committment into it.

Marriage is not for everyone. But if it is important to you, and your partner is not so sure, I''d be doing some serious soul searching to decide if this is really the person you want to be sharing your life with and if you can truly be happy without being married...

Just my two cents! Best wishes!

 

[dmbfan]

AceP, I will also play a bit of the devils advocate, and anyone else that might want answer this for me this scenerio.

If I was to tell you this:

I love you and I want to love you the rest of my life. I have very strong feelings against marriage and I know its something that I do not want to do. If there is anything else I could do to prove my commitment to you other than marriage I will do it.

if the other person is against marriage, is it something that can be held against them. If he can prove to you that he loves you, that he would do anything in the world for you, but has strong feelings against marriage, why is he wrong?

I think the question you can ask yourself is wether you want to be with him or if marriage is more important.

once again, I just want to give a guys perspective in some of these situations.

 

[anchor31]

Date: 10/27/2006 6:21:07 PM
Author: dmbfan
AceP, I will also play a bit of the devils advocate, and anyone else that might want answer this for me this scenerio.

If I was to tell you this:

I love you and I want to love you the rest of my life. I have very strong feelings against marriage and I know its something that I do not want to do. If there is anything else I could do to prove my commitment to you other than marriage I will do it.

if the other person is against marriage, is it something that can be held against them. If he can prove to you that he loves you, that he would do anything in the world for you, but has strong feelings against marriage, why is he wrong?

I think the question you can ask yourself is wether you want to be with him or if marriage is more important.

once again, I just want to give a guys perspective in some of these situations.

DMBfan, your arguments are very valid, and I feel compelled to respond.

I don''t have the financial and legal arguments most Americans have, because in Québec, you don''t have to be legally married to have the same rights and priviledges a married spouse has; we have "de facto unions" and "civil unions". In fact, I believe your relationship is officially considered a "de facto union" after three years of living together. No wedding and no vows, but you are "married".

Nevertheless if, when we started to talk about the future last year, my then-boyfriend had told me what you just wrote, I would have left him. He could have loved me more than anything in the world and I him, but no marriage is a deal-breaker for me. Why? Because for me it is a fondamental value, one that I acquired by growing up in a great family full of love, generosity and trust that began in a marriage 32 years ago. Fondamental values like marriage, children and religion are difficult issues and frequent deal-breakers... When I met my FI, he was 21 and he already knew he wanted 3 children. It''s fondamental to his life, just like marriage is to me. Would he be marrying me if I didn''t want children? Of course not; he''d have left me a LONG time ago.

 

[Maria D]

Date: 10/27/2006 7:32:28 PM
Author: anchor31

I don''t have the financial and legal arguments most Americans have, because in Québec, you don''t have to be legally married to have the same rights and priviledges a married spouse has; we have ''de facto unions'' and ''civil unions''. In fact, I believe your relationship is officially considered a ''de facto union'' after three years of living together. No wedding and no vows, but you are ''married''.

When I lived in Canada, common law marriage was frequently a subject of light-hearted debate. Some people described it as what you wrote, that it''s automatic after cohabitating for three years and others said it wasn''t. The joking around was among cohabitating couples -- are we married now? (if they had been living together for over 3 years) or -- we need to get separate apts. before we''re automatically married! But it looks like the "automatic" part is a myth...this is from

http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/choose-quebec/daily-life/family/marriage.html

Common-law marriages
Two people may also form a common-law marriage, also referred to as "free union", meaning they live together without being married. Common-law marriages are recognized regardless of the sex of the partners involved. The Civil Code of Québec does not confer any particular status on common-law couples. By signing a cohabitation contract, preferably before a notary or lawyer, common-law partners may obtain certain guarantees offered by marriage. This legal document sets out the conditions that they agree to respect. Any children born of such a union are protected by law and entitled to the same rights as those of children born to a married couple.
In case of death, the surviving spouse is not considered the legal heir. It is strongly recommended that common-law spouses who wish to bequeath their goods to one another prepare a notarized will. The surviving spouse may also receive life insurance benefits only if he or she has been designated as the beneficiary by the deceased spouse.

 

[anchor31]

Maria - Interesting... I guess that there are some advantages and priviledges that are not automatically acquired then. But they can still be acquired by legal contracts without getting married, I think. Anyway, sorry for the highjack, thanks for pointing that out.