why do college students count their chickens....

[Dancing Fire]

before they hatch?

i get this feeling from talking to some of my friend's kids,my niece and nephew

they already thinking about buying this and that luxury items.

they think is easy find a well paid job right after they graduate from college.i told them...life ain't that easy. don't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[monarch64]

I don't know, DF. When I graduated college, I got a job and assumed i was free of my parents for life. And I pretty much was, financially. I remember thinking that it wasn't their job anymore to take care of me, and that's how it worked out, except for our wedding, which they helped with immensely.

I did get a well-paid job after college, but never assumed that my parents would bail me out of anything. They had always baild me out of things when I was in high school, and I didn't expect or want that after I graduated college. I loved being on my own and knowing that I didn't have to rely on them anymore.

 

[Rhapsody]

Deluded self confidence maybe?

They know a friend who got a job making X, or they googled it and founded average salary for the position is X and they assume they wont have any problem finding a job. Or keeping a job. Until you''ve been out in the work force and been laid off (both my boyfriend and I were downsized) you don''t really think about these things happening to you.

My boyfriend and I definitely endulged in some luxury items when we got out of school. but we budgeted for them, bought them in cash (or if it went on a credit card paid it off before the 30 day grace period) and budgeted for house savings, general savings and retirement/401k first.

I find it even more appaling how many people my age, a few years out of college still expect their parents to pay for things. We were visiting some friends of ours, they graduated in 2003, had well over 6 figure combined income, have been married for 2 years and were bitter that her parents didn''t help buy her a new car when she wrecked hers

 

[Diam100]

Let's see a list of some reason's I can come up for amusement:

1) They haven't moved out into real housing reality - a dorm is not real housing.
2) Have not been surprised by their first heating/air conditioner bill.... ouch.
3) Rent, car payment, gas, food & living expenses less salary = not much left.
4) Early in their career & real bucks come a few years later for the lucky few.
5) Haven't experienced the Housing craze.
6) Really furnishing a home costs $$$ and note furniture is not a milk crate in front of a TV (I hope my nephew reads this!)
7) Kid's of their own = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 4/16/2006 5:19:13 AM
Author: Diam100
Let''s see a list of some reason''s I can come up for amusement:

1) They haven''t moved out into real housing reality - a dorm is not real housing.
2) Have not been surprised by their first heating/air conditioner bill.... ouch.
3) Rent, car payment, gas, food & living expenses less salary = not much left.
4) Early in their career & real bucks come a few years later for the lucky few.
5) Haven''t experienced the Housing craze.
6) Really furnishing a home costs $$$ and note furniture is not a milk crate in front of a TV (I hope my nephew reads this!)
7) Kid''s of their own = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I agree with her list - I think it is a learning and growing experience to see how much real life costs. My son is learning quickly though - he can''t believe the cost of his health insurance! He also realizes that in this area his chances of buying a home are slim in the near future. I have told them the stories of what we had to do to get our first house and they act like its a fairy tale. Reality is closing in fast!

DF, not their fault really. We have sheltered them from the realities a little too much I think. My kids both worked during college but we were footing the tuition and housing costs. They had book and fun money to earn. A little different than paying rent, foot, utilities, insurance, etc. Sacrifice is going to be key for them - they just can''t have it all immediately. It sinks in pretty quick!

 

[XChick03]

Well, I''m still in college, grad school anyway. But I most definitely don''t have that kind of attitude. Of course, I moved out and got my own place right after high school. I know what its like to live paycheck-to-paycheck and even with a law degree, I know getting a great job is going to be hard. I just hope that one day I''ll be making enough money as an attorney to support my diamond addiction.

 

[princessv]

I think in college many students are immature. I certainly was one of those. Wanted all the luxury items and did make $$. Boy was my mom angry at me alot of times! It wasn''t until my first year in law school that I lived on my own. I had my own apartment, utility bills, cable, internet, phone bills. All my bills were paid through my student loans. In undergrad, I was on a full scholarship so I didn''t have to pay a dime when it came to tuition, books or rent. Now, looking at the astronomical amounts of $$ I had to take in student loans, not to mention looking at the interest that compounds every 3 months scares the s**t out of me!

I honestly can''t recall the last time I went shopping and actually bought something that I didn''t need ie ''fun clothes or shoes or purses.''

The reason is that it''s hard nowadays to land one of those well paying attorney jobs...so like the title of this thread...I can''t count my chickens until they hatch. Most likely, I''ll be paying off student loans till the day I croak.

 

[glaucomflecken]

Date: 4/16/2006 10:00:28 AM
Author: Princess V
Most likely, I''ll be paying off student loans till the day I croak.

Im right there with you Princess V

 

[Blenheim]

I''m about to graduate from college and have the next five years lined up. I will be making very little, especially by PS standards, on my graduate student salary. I''m not expecting any luxuries for years. I''m not expecting anyone to take care of me, even though my parents have already told me that they''re there for me if I need them financially, emotionally, whatever.

I''ve really thought about my priorities (other than paying rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc), and I really want one thing that could be considered a luxury item -- a cavalier king charles spaniel. Not only are purebred dogs more expensive to begin with, but they have to be fed, taken to the vet, etc. It builds up, and I realize that. I recognize that I may have to do away with little luxuries (cable, Starbucks, meals out), and I''m fine with that.



On deluded self-confidence, as Rhapsody mentions: At my college at least, the first people to start getting jobs were all going into fields like accounting and i-banking. They make more money than people going into a lot of other fields. If you''re really naive and haven''t done your homework as to reasonable offers for your profession in different areas of the country (assuming that you could get a job), it might seem like $50,000+ for a starting salary can be expected.

Diam100: My college is toying with the idea of a longer residency requirement (they currently require two years on-campus) and I hate it for precisely the reasons you mention. I''ve lived off-campus this year, and it was a real wake-up call to see exactly how much all of those bills and expenses cost.

 

[XChick03]

Date: 4/16/2006 10:00:28 AM
Author: Princess V
I honestly can't recall the last time I went shopping and actually bought something that I didn't need ie 'fun clothes or shoes or purses.'

The reason is that it's hard nowadays to land one of those well paying attorney jobs...so like the title of this thread...I can't count my chickens until they hatch. Most likely, I'll be paying off student loans till the day I croak.

Me too.

It takes about 10 years to start making good money as an attorney because you have to work your way up. I'll most likely end up filing someone's papers for 5 years making less than I would at McDonald's.

Though, my FI graduated 2 years ago with a BA is business and he's already making pretty good money, at least for a 26 year old.

 

[gailrmv]

Hey DF,
I think a lot of them get used to mom and dad buying them stuff. I went to a private college with a lot of people who had family money and as a result had this and that luxury item. In college I never asked my parents for money beyond tuition, room and board and I felt very lucky that they paid for those things, because they certainly didn't have to. I figured then and now, they worked hard for their money and why should I be entitled to it! I worked all summer and some during school to earn money for clothes, books, and fun, so I had to be very frugal. Now several years later I can treat myself to the occasional luxury item and it means a lot more to me than if they had all been handed to me whenever I wanted them. I still see friends in their late 20s depending on parents to help them get an apartment, downpayment, car, vacation, etc. I respect people much more who work for, and appreciate, what they have.
ETA: Just wanted to clarify that I meant SOME, but certainly not ALL of the people I went to school with!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/16/2006 4:59:47 AM
Author: Rhapsody
Deluded self confidence maybe?

They know a friend who got a job making X, or they googled it and founded average salary for the position is X and they assume they wont have any problem finding a job. Or keeping a job. Until you''ve been out in the work force and been laid off (both my boyfriend and I were downsized) you don''t really think about these things happening to you.

timing is everything. remember the 90''s? if you graduated in the high tech field,you were pretty much guarantee a well paid job straight out of college. then 10 yrs later (early 2000''s) you graduated with the same degree then you''re in tough luck b/c that''s when high tech corp started to downsize.

 

[decodelighted]

Ever hear the expression "every generation wants to exceed the one that went before." Some college students actually think they are going to ENTER the workforce at the point their PARENTS ARE NOW. Especially if they grew up wealthy without much exposure to middle-lower classes.

I had a mixed bag ... I was the lower middle class kid in a wealth-filled private high school and a wealth-filled private university. I appreciated nice things but was VERY aware of the large, not-so-readily-achievable price tags on luxury items. Chose an "arty" path frought with many $$ troubles ... but am grateful for how clever they made me. And how much prouder I was of the nice-looking home, & fun lifestyle I achieved on stuff dragged in from the street and an encyclopedic knowledge of "freebie events". Necessity is the mother of invention, no? Let ''em count chickens. Good practice for counting pennies later to get a slice of pizza or a Saturday Movie matinee!

 

[MissAva]

Not all of us are like that. Some of us already live on our own, pay our own bills and have to live with the day to day budgeting. It is not fun but it is reality. I am super excited that I have a job waiting for me when I graduate, heck I even posted a thread here about it. Will I be making a ton of money? Nope.

For every vapid self centered college student who thinks money grows on trees there is one who reads MSN money, saves, and doesn’t eat out more then once a month (if that), doesn’t drink, and counts their lucky stars that they were fortunate enough to be attending college in the first place.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I don''t want it all...I just want to be able to eat and not live in a place with rats!

I have a friend who just got hired for google and will be making more than his mother''s salary (she''s their breadwinner) and I do think if you start imagining that all the opportunities open to friends like that will be open to you, you are in for a harsh surpise.
Trust me though, the only thing seeing my friends get starting jobs from 50-80K has done is make me feel hungry in anticipation of the ramen I''ll be eating on my graduate stipend --and drasticallly fearful of my loan payments.

 

[moon river]

Because youth is wasted on the young!!!!

 

[Blenheim]

This doesn''t entirely apply to the original question, but I was walking behind two girls on campus the other day. They were talking about the older sister of one of the girls, who had already graduated. She was working at J Crew (or a similar job), while buying expensive clothes and alcohol and partying a lot. Her daddy was funding it. Her little sister''s attitude was that at least she was saving her dad money over her being in college, because he only had to pay for the life style and not for the tuition on top of it. Some people''s attitudes make me mad.

Anyway, I think I read an article within the past couple of months about how our parents often work really hard to provide us with a good standard of living, and it kind of backfires by not teaching the value of money, etc. A lot of young people to expect things like cable and daily lattes. Sometimes they expect to have the same standard of living as their parents right out of college, which just is not going to happen. I''m kind of scared about the amount of debt that many young people are accumulating and their lack of saving for the future.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/16/2006 6:11:38 PM
Author: Blenheim

Anyway, I think I read an article within the past couple of months about how our parents often work really hard to provide us with a good standard of living, and it kind of backfires by not teaching the value of money, etc. A lot of young people to expect things like cable and daily lattes. Sometimes they expect to have the same standard of living as their parents right out of college, which just is not going to happen. I''m kind of scared about the amount of debt that many young people are accumulating and their lack of saving for the future.

yeah....how can a young couple with $300-350k in student loans be able to save enough money to buy a house,cars,wedding, etc. what''s their secret?.

 

[MissAva]

Date: 4/16/2006 6:46:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/16/2006 6:11:38 PM
Author: Blenheim

Anyway, I think I read an article within the past couple of months about how our parents often work really hard to provide us with a good standard of living, and it kind of backfires by not teaching the value of money, etc. A lot of young people to expect things like cable and daily lattes. Sometimes they expect to have the same standard of living as their parents right out of college, which just is not going to happen. I''m kind of scared about the amount of debt that many young people are accumulating and their lack of saving for the future.

yeah....how can a young couple with $300-350k in student loans be able to save enough money to buy a house,cars,wedding, etc. what''s their secret?.

First off their daddies payed for college so they have no student loans, they alreayd have nice cars (or a few each) again that their parents paid for, the brides parents pay for the wedding, and the money for the down payment comes from both sets of parents so the kids will stay close to home. I saw it when I went home for a visit over the summer. People my age living in three and four million dollar homes.... hell that is not even my goal for the end of life.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/16/2006 7:00:56 PM
Author: Matatora

Date: 4/16/2006 6:46:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/16/2006 6:11:38 PM
Author: Blenheim

Anyway, I think I read an article within the past couple of months about how our parents often work really hard to provide us with a good standard of living, and it kind of backfires by not teaching the value of money, etc. A lot of young people to expect things like cable and daily lattes. Sometimes they expect to have the same standard of living as their parents right out of college, which just is not going to happen. I''m kind of scared about the amount of debt that many young people are accumulating and their lack of saving for the future.

yeah....how can a young couple with $300-350k in student loans be able to save enough money to buy a house,cars,wedding, etc. what''s their secret?.

First off their daddies payed for college so they have no student loans, they alreayd have nice cars (or a few each) again that their parents paid for, the brides parents pay for the wedding, and the money for the down payment comes from both sets of parents so the kids will stay close to home. I saw it when I went home for a visit over the summer. People my age living in three and four million dollar homes.... hell that is not even my goal for the end of life.

Mat
i''m not talking about the spoiled brats.i''m talking about the normal people.

 

[sydneycasandra]

Although many of the points brought forth on this thread are of course very valid, I''d like to add another, very contrasting view.

Perhaps the college students that are talking about this and that luxury that they will be buying after graduation are "fantasizing" about the nice things they will be able to earn, and thus providing themselves with incentives and motivation to finish. I was my primary financial support all throughout college and now med school, and although I do decide to indulge in some luxuries, I am also fully aware of how much it costs to pay my mortgage, utility bills, car repair, etc.

Not that I am "counting my chickens before they hatch" but of course when I see many of my college friends (now a few years out) some with real jobs and nice stuff, I do have to remind myself exactly why it is that I am struggling through med school, deeply in debt, and spend all my free time studying rather than out socializing, drinking, and dining. Mostly, I do this by volunteering at an emergency room which puts me back in touch with the real reason to be a doctor (patients!!!) but once in a while when I see my student loan bills piling up, I do also start to dream about the more "tangible" rewards of working in medicine.

So maybe those college students are just trying to remember why they are doing this in the first place. It''s easier to sit around and dream about a Mercedes than it is to dream about what a well-rounded, educated person you''ll be when you finish your baccalaureate (ha!)

 

[midgirl]

Most of my friends are paying for their own college by working full time during school and 50-60 hours a week in the summer.

I think most college students are not expecting to have mercedes at all, that is too much of a generalization.

Why do people even go to college? They want nice things and they want to be able to go on vacation and have a good life, nothing wrong with talking about it before graduating! My apartment is nicely furnished and I am a college student (if ya couldn''t tell!!) and most of it is handme downs, from goodwill or ikea. My parens helped me buy some of it because they wanted to, so why not let them? I understand the value of a dollar which is why I work my tooshi off in grad school so I can live!!

 

[Rhapsody]

Date: 4/16/2006 4:01:21 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/16/2006 4:59:47 AM

Author: Rhapsody

Deluded self confidence maybe?

They know a friend who got a job making X, or they googled it and founded average salary for the position is X and they assume they wont have any problem finding a job. Or keeping a job. Until you''ve been out in the work force and been laid off (both my boyfriend and I were downsized) you don''t really think about these things happening to you.

timing is everything. remember the 90''s? if you graduated in the high tech field,you were pretty much guarantee a well paid job straight out of college. then 10 yrs later (early 2000''s) you graduated with the same degree then you''re in tough luck b/c that''s when high tech corp started to downsize.

Beyond the timing issue there''s just the case of people assuming they will make what their friends made. I have 2 friends, both in high tech fields graduated from the same top 3 tech school. One started looking for a job before the other and was getting offers for 60-80k jobs. The other friend saw the offers he was getting and assumed he would be making as much and was shocked when the highest offer he got was 30-something. Same school, same program, same grades very different starting salaries. No one knows why.

And I agree with some of the people who mentioned that after all this hard work to get through school some of it is just vocalizing dreams. My boyfriend and I keep lists of what we would buy if we made a certain amount of money. I think the value we have set now is 100k each, which might be in the realm of reality in 10 years or so

So I may talk about the jewelery or car or observatory I would buy when I have the money but I know it''s all just a dream

 

[Angela1977]

Date: 4/16/2006 2:37:29 AM
Author:Dancing Fire
before they hatch?

i get this feeling from talking to some of my friend''s kids,my niece and nephew

they already thinking about buying this and that luxury items.

they think is easy find a well paid job right after they graduate from college.i told them...life ain''t that easy. don''t count your chickens before they hatch.

I thought this was kind of an obvious question. College kids, for the most part, have lived in a very sheltered world. I know a lot of you haven''t, I didn''t myself, but for the most part they do. When they hear "starting salary $35,000", that sounds like a LOT of money. It''s just youth and being naive. Nothing more...just part of growing up. No real mystery...

 

[larussel03]

There is a new book out titled something like why it's the worst time to be young right now. On average college grads have 20,000 in student loans simply because college is too freaking expensive right now. To be completely honest, student loans are not that scary, they're an unfortunate part of many educated young people's lives because parents cannot afford the rediculously high college tuition prices--and I dont think they should have to pay for their children's educations, but that's a separate issue. I'll be paying 120.00 a month for the next 20 years...(unless somehow I get rich and decide to pay it off, but I'd rather invest my extra money into stocks and some savings)

Young people today really need to be taught responsibility young. In college I paid for my own apartment for one year off 700.00 a month and one year off of 1000 a month, and really learned how to stretch that moola (luckily rent was cheap when you split a 2br between 4 people). Then when I graduated and moved out I bought myself a couple luxury items (read: a couple expensive purses, not an expensive car) but didn't go overboard. Now I make pretty good money (really good for my age) and I still put most of my money leftover after bills/rent into savings and give myself an allowance for going out to dinner, clubs, bars and shopping, and it actually works!

I also think another issue is that some people are really impressed with THINGS. While, I do appreciate a cute pair of shoes, or an expensive handbag, I dont feel like I need that to feel better about myself or to fit in or whatever. I was raised to not care for designer things, although I do have an appreciation that I developed on my own of coach and designer jeans haha. But I budget to let myself indulge every once in a while.

Although I do have friends who went crazy--one buys gucci bags almost every month and cant afford to move out of her parent's house and another bought an Audi, RHR and all sorts of rediculously expensive bags, upon graduation and had to sell it a year later. Niether is bratty but I think the latter friend just thought she'd be able to afford it...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/16/2006 10:00:28 AM
Author: Princess V
I think in college many students are immature. I certainly was one of those. Wanted all the luxury items and did make $$. Boy was my mom angry at me alot of times! It wasn''t until my first year in law school that I lived on my own. I had my own apartment, utility bills, cable, internet, phone bills. All my bills were paid through my student loans. In undergrad, I was on a full scholarship so I didn''t have to pay a dime when it came to tuition, books or rent. Now, looking at the astronomical amounts of $$ I had to take in student loans, not to mention looking at the interest that compounds every 3 months scares the s**t out of me!

I honestly can''t recall the last time I went shopping and actually bought something that I didn''t need ie ''fun clothes or shoes or purses.''

The reason is that it''s hard nowadays to land one of those well paying attorney jobs...so like the title of this thread...I can''t count my chickens until they hatch. Most likely, I''ll be paying off student loans till the day I croak.

LOL!!!
how many yrs do you get to pay off a student loan?

 

[indecisive]

There is one plan at my school where you finish paying off loans at the age of 80

 

[princessv]

Date: 4/17/2006 12:53:24 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/16/2006 10:00:28 AM
Author: Princess V
I think in college many students are immature. I certainly was one of those. Wanted all the luxury items and did make $$. Boy was my mom angry at me alot of times! It wasn''t until my first year in law school that I lived on my own. I had my own apartment, utility bills, cable, internet, phone bills. All my bills were paid through my student loans. In undergrad, I was on a full scholarship so I didn''t have to pay a dime when it came to tuition, books or rent. Now, looking at the astronomical amounts of $$ I had to take in student loans, not to mention looking at the interest that compounds every 3 months scares the s**t out of me!

I honestly can''t recall the last time I went shopping and actually bought something that I didn''t need ie ''fun clothes or shoes or purses.''

The reason is that it''s hard nowadays to land one of those well paying attorney jobs...so like the title of this thread...I can''t count my chickens until they hatch. Most likely, I''ll be paying off student loans till the day I croak.

LOL!!!
how many yrs do you get to pay off a student loan?

Littlelysser and I were talking about this actually. When I finally graduate next year, I''ll be in about 130-140k in debt (taking into account interest that has compounded over the years). I''d like to point out that this is just for law school NO loans were from undergraduate. I''m now wishing I would have gone to the only state school, but problem is I have no desire to practice in that state.

Looking at paying my loans off for a period of 30 years (gosh I will be 55 by the time that''s done

if I make around the minimum payments) the monthly rates are something like 1kish (maybe a little less around $900-$1100) Hopefully (and here I''m not trying to count my chickens) I''ll have a decent job where I can afford to make more than the minimum monthly payments because I plan to live at home with the parents

at least for the first one to two years to be able to dig myself out of a significant amount of debt.

I try not to feel envious of the kids at my hoity toity school..I saw one guy filling out his brand new Lexus 350 owner survey (I''m guessing that either daddy decided to buy him that as a graduation gift or daddy paid for his tuition so he''s buying that with a signing bonus from a big firm). It''s not even that I feel envious...I''d would be just EXTREMELY happy with NOTHING but with no student loan debt.

 

[icekid]

I''m another who will be paying school loans for the rest of time. I have some from undergrad, and my med school tuition + living expenses are costing me nearly 50 grand/yr in DEBT! 200 grand for 4 years- a really scary thought. And we never waste money... a lot of the time I can''t even justify a drive home to see our families b/c gas is so expensive.

So we''re definitely not entitled-feeling irresponsible kids. We eat dinner out maybe once/month (no where pricey!) and the only thing I''ve spent money on recently is nice clothes, b/c most patients don''t want to be treated by med students who don''t look professional.

sigh... I am hoping that we can afford to enjoy life someday! Right now I am paying 50 grand/ yr to be miserable

 

[meepcat]

Bah, being a kid and being an adult has blended together even more, with the advent of technology.

How often will a kid choose to read a well-educating book over playing with a PSP unit?

I was spendthrift throughout my late teens to 20s. I burned through so much money, because I was earning it at the same rate. I started in the tech industry when I was 17, so I learned too early about luxury goods (and owned a 2.8i BMW Z3 by the time I was 23). I had a Neiman''s card, a Visa card, and made Saturdays my weekly shopping routine. Then, I decided to move abroad.

Over the few years after making that decision, I had to move my stuff between where I moved out, into a storage locker, to Paris (France), to Frankfurt (Germany), to Burlingame (California), and to where I am now (still in the Bay Area). I have moved 14 times in 10 years. The rate at which I buy has decreased considerably, now that I''ve had to shed a lot of excess baggage and bills.

I learned the hard way, how to get myself into debt, out of debt, and clean-up my credit, and prioritize where luxury could be allowed. Such that, I collect Louis Vuitton handbags (real ones, and yes, they''re damn expensive), but I drive a POS $2000 ''93 Toyota Camry with ripped interior.

With this mentality, I think about our future engagement.. Sure, my ring will cost 4 figures, but since I''m paying for the wedding, I''m determined to plan it for HALF of the cost of the ring (with the rest going to our honeymoon).

We''ll see.