"Why Chinese mothers are superior"

[coffeetown]

That's all true.

My GF is Middle Eastern and her family is the same way. The notion of getting a B was unheard of. Doing drugs, partying, spending the night were simply unheard of in her home. My GF graduated from high school 1 year early, finished her undergrad in 3 years and began attending medical school when she was 20. She is also a bit creative and enjoys painting in her free time.

She does hold some pissed off views about her family, but overall she says she's thankful that they treated her the way she did. She says she knows so many girls who majored in communication or fine arts, and ended up having work crappy jobs or try and marry a rich guy just to get by.

She says that she's not going to be strict as her mom w/ our future children and I am happy about that. We want to have our children play some sports, but overall I trust her on the homework and education front and know that she'll be an excellent mom because of it.

Look at international figures, US children are FAR behind other 1st world nations, and that has a lot to do with our parenting styles.

The notion of letting your kids to whatever you want is a very western concept. The idea of just letting your kids run around and leave the house when they turn 18 is something that's part of our culture. In her family everything is intense. They don't mind their own business but they also support one another a lot more than most American families that I know (including my own) Middle Eastern and Asian children also have lower pregnancy rates, drug use, and a large majority of them go on to attend college and enter the professional field... they are clearly doing something right, although I admit that there are areas they should not be as strict.

 

[coffeetown]

Why no play dates??

I asked my GF, who is Middle Eastern, comes from a family like the one mentioned in the article. She said it's viewed as being indulgent to children. Her mom would allow others to spend the night but she was not allowed to spend the night elsewhere. At all. Friends from school were allowed to come over if all was going well with her school and not more than 1x a week or on weekends. But my GF's parents also allowed her to be a bit creative, she played sports for a few years, painted, and danced ballet. She mentioned her mom never babied her by making her only things that she wanted to eat, her mom didn't let her express herself by wearing really ugly or messy clothing, and her mom also didn't let her just do whatever she wanted while she was growing

She also said "with a huge family like most of us have, who needs to have playdates? there's always a sibling or cousin around the house."

the family is always at the center of everything. They don't encourage individuality. They believe that a child is an extension of the family. If you do things that make you look bad, you are not just doing themselves, you are also shaming yourself.

I'm white and American, but honestly the way that her family is with one another is something that made me fall in love with her. Her family is very nosy, high maintenance, at times filled with drama, etc. etc. but overall they are way more supportive of one another than most American families that I know (including my own) they spend more time with one another, they share more with each other, they work as one in more ways than one... even as adults. The whole notion is something that's crucial and also evolutionary. They don't believe that when you turn 18 you just leave and move away, they think that it takes a village to raise a child. Uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, etc. etc. are all given the responsibility of disciplining all the children in the family... and even the children of family and friends. Individuality is discouraged and viewed as being selfish and shallow, community and communal relationships are seen as vital and always encouraged.

 

[coffeetown]

My guess is, they wouldn't be allowed to feel bad about not going to their friends' parties. They were most likely taught by the parents that "you don't go to these parties because you are better and smarter than your friends".

My GF does not have her Pricescope account, so I am handing the computer off to her (she's sitting next to me)

hi!

I didn't feel bad about not going to sleepover's. By the time I was 13 years old I stopped asking about spending the night, because I knew that was just against our house rules. My parents always told me that if something were to occur (earthquake -- we lived in Southern CA) it would be better if we were all together. I never held it against them, it always made sense to me. I don't think I missed out at all. The first time I spent the night away from both of my parents was when I went to church camp for a week, and I was only allowed to go because two of my cousins also went.

 

[coffeetown]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

GF here, not Coffeetown.

No, if someone has a disability it's different story.

The fact is that many students are able to get away with getting C's and B's because parents just say "oh, he/she is not good math/science" or "we all have different talents" -- those of us who were not raised with that mentality don't believe that. Unless you have a medical disability there's no reason why you can't study, work hard, and do well in science, math, music, and art.

The mentality behind all of this is that If I can get an A, why can't you? If you study long enough, practice, and work at it you will get an A. The only excuse is if you have a handicap, otherwise suck it and up work harder. We also study a lot more differently than American children too, but that's a whole other conversation.

I don't think most of you realize that students in other countries do exceptionally well in all of these subjects, they attend school and study longer hours. You can't just say that they are being robbed or that they are not creative.

I think that American parents just baby their children into adulthood. I like to call it the Peter Pan complex, they are not raising adults, they are raising individuals who literally only make decisions based on what what they as individuals "feel" like doing. I find that to be weird and selfish. You were not born all by yourself, you come from a family who most likely did a lot of things to provide you with the things you needed while growing up, what right do you have to assume that you owe nothing to them and should just pursue your own "desires" and do what you "feel" like??? I don't think that way. All and everything I am is because of my parents and all of my ancestors. I want to live a life of integrity and actions that not only make them proud but also pass on the positive things that they passed to me.

Things don't happen in a vaccum. We're not on this planet alone. We have to stay true to yourself, but for me I don't know who I a without my family. Everything and all that I am is because of them. Why wouldn't I want trust them enough to make decisions for me when I am young? or to set boundaries for me? they are my parents, they love me more than I can ever realize. I trust them with that even now as adult than I trust myself.

I think that American children are raised to be individuals, and in our families we're raised to view ourselves as just one small part of cohesive body or as my BF said "a community"

P.S - when I used the word "you" above I am not directing it at any particular person on this board, just speaking in general terms

 

[ForteKitty]

i think it's too dangerous to have sleepovers now. you really dont know what the other family does behind closed doors. i wouldn't risk my child getting molested.

But hasn't that always been true? I mean, freaky stuff has been happening as long as there have been humans around to do freaky things. The vast majority of times things turn out just fine. I'm not a parent, so maybe this is not the way I would feel in those circumstances, but I'm just so sad to think my kid wouldn't have those same wonderful memories that I did. And my friends came form an assortment of families - there were the free-love hippies, the uptight WASPs, awkward scientists, the lawyer who defended drug dealers and prostitutes, the virtual Cleavers...I learned so much about human dynamics and families from those interactions, plus how to navigate interpersonal social relationships. And had so much fun.

More than anything this really really depresses me. Far more than I would have imagined. I'm glad my parents were fairly permissive.

Although, thinking about it, my sister has young girls and I know they have sleepovers with their friends. So perhaps the world as I would like to see it still exists.

(sorry totally off-topic from the original query)

Maybe it depends on where you live. Most girls really didn't have that many sleepovers when i was growing up anyway, so i didn't miss out on much. I was invited to a summer beach house a few times w/ my friends, and my mom let me go only because she knew the family very well.

i guess i dont really trust people all that much anymore, and kids aren't as innocent either. better safe than sorry.

 

[kenny]

Sounds like a sleepover is what was called a slumber party when I was a kid.

 

[sillyberry]

Sounds like a sleepover is what was called a slumber party when I was a kid.

Interchangeable, IMHO. Although I suppose a sleepover may be more casual than a slumber party, but it's a matter of degree.

It's funny, but I'm super looking forward to my bachelorette party purely because it will be a big sleepover with my bestest friends! But with booze!

(okay, topic detour officially over)

 

[Cehrabehra]

Sounds like a sleepover is what was called a slumber party when I was a kid.

Interchangeable, IMHO. Although I suppose a sleepover may be more casual than a slumber party, but it's a matter of degree.

It's funny, but I'm super looking forward to my bachelorette party purely because it will be a big sleepover with my bestest friends! But with booze!

(okay, topic detour officially over)

to me a sleepover is one friend or maybe two friends, typically just bunked out in the bedroom... a slumber party is an organized event - like 6-12 girls staying over, typically taking over an entire room like the living room.

We had an adult sleepover a few years ago. A couple we are friends with stayed over (heads outta the gutter! no swinging lol) and we stayed up super late watching the matrix trilogy and drinking, finally crashed about 4:30am and got up and made pancakes for the kids at about 9. Her daughter slept with my daughter and my boys were together. Fun for everyone! They lived about 2 miles away lol

 

[MonkeyPie]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

GF here, not Coffeetown.

No, if someone has a disability it's different story.

The mentality behind all of this is that If I can get an A, why can't you? If you study long enough, practice, and work at it you will get an A. The only excuse is if you have a handicap, otherwise suck it and up work harder. We also study a lot more differently than American children too, but that's a whole other conversation.

I think this part is what is ridiculous. So you are not allowed to be bad at something? Everyone has their own strengths - math was NOT one of mine, and I failed miserably at it once I passed long division. And even that was difficult for me. My mom spent a whole summer doing flashcard drills with me for the multiplication tables, and I STILL do not remember them all, to this day. Numbers don't stay in my head, in any shape or form. I forget birthdays, appointments, totals, because they are numbers and my mind doesn't grasp them well. My mom tried to force me to do well in math until she finally realized I SIMPLY WASN'T ABLE. I don't have a disability, there's nothing wrong with me, it's just like how some people can draw and some people can't.

Forcing someone to do something just because YOU (the parental you) think they should be able, is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

 

[zoebartlett]

That's interesting that you think sleepovers are a thing of the past, TGal.

I don't see that here, and I definitely don't think they're dangerous. My students are always coming to school with stories about times when they slept over a friend's house. Sleepovers seem to begin here in first or second grade. One of my students just returned from a long weekend away with her best friend's family (her own family didn't go). She was giddy with excitement about her "girls weekend." I work in a very small, tight-knit community, and maybe that has something to do with it. If I worked in a large, metropolitan area, it might be different. Who knows.

 

[zoebartlett]

Hi Coffeetown's girlfriend!

I suppose it's about what you grew up with. If you've never had something, it's hard to miss it, right? I get that.

What I don't understand though is your point about parents just accepting their children's talents and abilities. This is just my experience: When I was growing up, I always worked very hard in school but math didn't come to me as easily as other subjects. I had an in-school and at home math tutor from elementary school to the end of middle school. I studied and studied, but I remember crying at the table so often because it just wasn't sinking in. I got through it but I squeaked by with a C consistently. I'm sure it was frustrating on some level to my parents (and to me), but I did the best I could and they knew that. No matter how much I studied, I was not going to get an A (or even a B). Again, this is just my perspective and experience.

What I do agree with you about is your comment that parents baby their kids so much these days. I call it coddling. I see it so often at my school (I'm an elementary teacher). It's sad, really.

 

[TravelingGal]

That's interesting that you think sleepovers are a thing of the past, TGal.

I don't see that here, and I definitely don't think they're dangerous. My students are always coming to school with stories about times when they slept over a friend's house. Sleepovers seem to begin here in first or second grade. One of my students just returned from a long weekend away with her best friend's family (her own family didn't go). She was giddy with excitement about her "girls weekend." I work in a very small, tight-knit community, and maybe that has something to do with it. If I worked in a large, metropolitan area, it might be different. Who knows.

maybe it's just here in crazy L.A.!!

 

[coffeetown]

[
I think this part is what is ridiculous. So you are not allowed to be bad at something? Everyone has their own strengths - math was NOT one of mine, and I failed miserably at it once I passed long division. And even that was difficult for me. My mom spent a whole summer doing flashcard drills with me for the multiplication tables, and I STILL do not remember them all, to this day. Numbers don't stay in my head, in any shape or form. I forget birthdays, appointments, totals, because they are numbers and my mind doesn't grasp them well. My mom tried to force me to do well in math until she finally realized I SIMPLY WASN'T ABLE. I don't have a disability, there's nothing wrong with me, it's just like how some people can draw and some people can't.

Forcing someone to do something just because YOU (the parental you) think they should be able, is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

CT's GF again, maybe I should get my own account...

No, I mean you can have a bad day or a bad exam here and there but overall you (again, not directing it at YOU) should be able to get an A unless there is a handicap.

I didn't always get math either, but I spent twice as much time on it, staying up until 9 PM sometimes studying while I was in elementary school. My parents also got me tutors, I went to math camp, watched math tutoring videos, etc. etc.

Now, the main thing that the article misses and it really rubbed me the wrong way was the fact that they don't discuss class issues. Not all mother are stay at home mom's, not all families (especially immigrant families) can afford the privileges that I had while growing up. Not all are able to live an affluent area or have the choice of living in a location simply based on their access to good schools. It really annoyed me that the article didn't bother mentioning that, because plays such a big role in this discussion.

 

[coffeetown]

Hi Coffeetown's girlfriend!

I suppose it's about what you grew up with. If you've never had something, it's hard to miss it, right? I get that.

What I don't understand though is your point about parents just accepting their children's talents and abilities. This is just my experience: When I was growing up, I always worked very hard in school but math didn't come to me as easily as other subjects. I had an in-school and at home math tutor from elementary school to the end of middle school. I studied and studied, but I remember crying at the table so often because it just wasn't sinking in. I got through it but I squeaked by with a C consistently. I'm sure it was frustrating on some level to my parents (and to me), but I did the best I could and they knew that. No matter how much I studied, I was not going to get an A (or even a B). Again, this is just my perspective and experience.

What I do agree with you about is your comment that parents baby their kids so much these days. I call it coddling. I see it so often at my school (I'm an elementary teacher). It's sad, really.

Hi there please see my post below to MonkeyPie in regards to teh same thing.

 

[HopeDream]

View from "the finish line"

I was one of those kids that excelled academically throughout School and University (self-motivated as opposed to parent motivated, but same net result). School was my life - I studied hard and recieved several scholarships each year, and graduating at the top of my class at University.

All the ingredients for a successful career right?

After school ended my area of expertise (environmental management and planning) suffered major unemployment due to the downturn in the economy and there was (and continues to be) no jobs for anyone in that area. I moved to a new city (to find work) and left behind my carefully cultivated network of potential colleagues and job opportunities. No one in the real world cares about my academic track record.

Currently I'm working part-time minimum wage because that's all that's available. I hope to go back to school and do an accounting diploma in the summer.(If I went to grad school I'd be stuck in academia- ugh!)

All the A+s in the world are useless if you can't find a job.

 

[zhuzhu]

View from "the finish line"

I was one of those kids that excelled academically throughout School and University (self-motivated as opposed to parent motivated, but same net result). School was my life - I studied hard and recieved several scholarships each year, and graduating at the top of my class at University.

All the ingredients for a successful career right?

After school ended my area of expertise (environmental management and planning) suffered major unemployment due to the downturn in the economy and there was (and continues to be) no jobs for anyone in that area. I moved to a new city (to find work) and left behind my carefully cultivated network of potential colleagues and job opportunities. No one in the real world cares about my academic track record.

Currently I'm working part-time minimum wage because that's all that's available. I hope to go back to school and do an accounting diploma in the summer.(If I went to grad school I'd be stuck in academia- ugh!)

All the A+s in the world are useless if you can't find a job.

This is when a so-called "Chinese mom" would say "that is why you need to get grades good enough to become doctors or lawyers".

 

[dragonfly411]

View from "the finish line"

I was one of those kids that excelled academically throughout School and University (self-motivated as opposed to parent motivated, but same net result). School was my life - I studied hard and recieved several scholarships each year, and graduating at the top of my class at University.

All the ingredients for a successful career right?

After school ended my area of expertise (environmental management and planning) suffered major unemployment due to the downturn in the economy and there was (and continues to be) no jobs for anyone in that area. I moved to a new city (to find work) and left behind my carefully cultivated network of potential colleagues and job opportunities. No one in the real world cares about my academic track record.

Currently I'm working part-time minimum wage because that's all that's available. I hope to go back to school and do an accounting diploma in the summer.(If I went to grad school I'd be stuck in academia- ugh!)

All the A+s in the world are useless if you can't find a job.

This is why I believe students shouldn't be streamlined to finish one degree and be shuffled out the door. I'd much rather see students who double or even triple up. I'm doing nutrition and food sciences (two programs). Nutrition will require me to do everything pre-med, which is also what the R.N. programs do. I'm close to deciding to get my R.N. (since I have to do all of the same classes anyway for a nutrition/diet program), then transfer to do my Nutrition and do the food sciences which is an Agriculture program. It'll open up so many more opportunities for me.

 

[HopeDream]

Zhuzhu - Good point!

Thought about law school - could get in no problem - Asked around and couldn't find any happy lawyers. Didn't feel like making a 3 year 60k gamble on somthing I only *might* like. Don't want to be a doctor - medical things creep me out.

I guess I'm just too willful to be truly successful

 

[zhuzhu]

Zhuzhu - Good point!

Thought about law school - could get in no problem - Asked around and couldn't find any happy lawyers. Didn't feel like making a 3 year 60k gamble on somthing I only *might* like. Don't want to be a doctor - medical things creep me out.

I guess I'm just too willful to be truly successful

I am so glad that you had the good sense to choose a career path that you believe in.

Trust me, angry lawyers and upset doctors are dangers to our society!

 

[zoebartlett]

Coffeetown's GF -- I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. No amount of studying or pressure from my parents would have made me do better on something I already worked hard at but just couldn't grasp. From MP's post, it sounds like she might agree, and I don't think we're alone. You can still be very successful in life even if you didn't get all As and an enormous amount of pressure from your parents.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

i think it's too dangerous to have sleepovers now. you really dont know what the other family does behind closed doors. i wouldn't risk my child getting molested.

But hasn't that always been true? I mean, freaky stuff has been happening as long as there have been humans around to do freaky things. The vast majority of times things turn out just fine. I'm not a parent, so maybe this is not the way I would feel in those circumstances, but I'm just so sad to think my kid wouldn't have those same wonderful memories that I did. And my friends came form an assortment of families - there were the free-love hippies, the uptight WASPs, awkward scientists, the lawyer who defended drug dealers and prostitutes, the virtual Cleavers...I learned so much about human dynamics and families from those interactions, plus how to navigate interpersonal social relationships. And had so much fun.

More than anything this really really depresses me. Far more than I would have imagined. I'm glad my parents were fairly permissive.

Although, thinking about it, my sister has young girls and I know they have sleepovers with their friends. So perhaps the world as I would like to see it still exists.
(sorry totally off-topic from the original query)

Do boys have sleepovers very often? My older son has had a few and my younger son had a friend spend the night at our house. Every time my older son had done a sleep over, I'd FREAK out and be paranoid, but from what I've found the only two issues have been a) they've played violent video games, and b) not been fed breakfast - that only happened once, though. lol When they've stayed with relatives, the main problem has been violent movies. They were allowed to watch Terminator at one relatives house. Ugh.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Why no play dates??

I asked my GF, who is Middle Eastern, comes from a family like the one mentioned in the article. She said it's viewed as being indulgent to children. Her mom would allow others to spend the night but she was not allowed to spend the night elsewhere. At all. Friends from school were allowed to come over if all was going well with her school and not more than 1x a week or on weekends. But my GF's parents also allowed her to be a bit creative, she played sports for a few years, painted, and danced ballet. She mentioned her mom never babied her by making her only things that she wanted to eat, her mom didn't let her express herself by wearing really ugly or messy clothing, and her mom also didn't let her just do whatever she wanted while she was growing

She also said "with a huge family like most of us have, who needs to have playdates? there's always a sibling or cousin around the house." .

IMO, having playdates ROCK. As a mom, I can say they often are life savers. You know why? If the kids are a great match, they basically babysit each other. In the summer normally I cannot get any yard work done b/c I was constantly keeping my kids from arguing, but when friends came over, voila, they would be self-sufficient FOR HOURS. All I had to do was feed them Otter Pops every 15 minutes and they were totally content. lol

ETA - I do see the cultural angle being said here and do not want to offend with what I just said. My view is that with my family (white living in America), it's worked well to schedule. My dh and kids are pretty much on our own. We have family around but are not close to them and we never hang out. It's just the situation where we all get together at holidays, not just for visits. For *me* I found the best is when a group of moms get together and chat while the kids play on their own. The kids are not coddled when we do this. In fact, unless one of them is hungry or injured, they fend for themselves. When they argue, we pretend like we don't hear them. lol!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

GF here, not Coffeetown.

No, if someone has a disability it's different story.

The mentality behind all of this is that If I can get an A, why can't you? If you study long enough, practice, and work at it you will get an A. The only excuse is if you have a handicap, otherwise suck it and up work harder. We also study a lot more differently than American children too, but that's a whole other conversation.

I think this part is what is ridiculous. So you are not allowed to be bad at something? Everyone has their own strengths - math was NOT one of mine, and I failed miserably at it once I passed long division. And even that was difficult for me. My mom spent a whole summer doing flashcard drills with me for the multiplication tables, and I STILL do not remember them all, to this day. Numbers don't stay in my head, in any shape or form. I forget birthdays, appointments, totals, because they are numbers and my mind doesn't grasp them well. My mom tried to force me to do well in math until she finally realized I SIMPLY WASN'T ABLE. I don't have a disability, there's nothing wrong with me, it's just like how some people can draw and some people can't.

Forcing someone to do something just because YOU (the parental you) think they should be able, is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

MonkeyPie - I very much feel that it's ridiculous that schools expect kids to be good in every subject. Both my kids are good at math and reading, but I can very much SEE, that even though my younger son is doing fine, that his REAL talent is art and writing. I don't know what will happen as he gets older and is exposed to advanced mathematics, but I've tried as hard as possible to explain to him that it's normal to have strengths and weaknesses. That's what holds our society together...each of us contributing in our own way. Hopefully both my kids can find what they love and excel at that. If they don't get As, that's fine. All I really (and desperately hope) is that a) they go to college and b) find a career they love. (eta - I was only able to accomplish a - went to college. I ended up hating the field I studied. Ugh!)

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

GF here, not Coffeetown.

No, if someone has a disability it's different story.

The fact is that many students are able to get away with getting C's and B's because parents just say "oh, he/she is not good math/science" or "we all have different talents" -- those of us who were not raised with that mentality don't believe that. Unless you have a medical disability there's no reason why you can't study, work hard, and do well in science, math, music, and art.

The mentality behind all of this is that If I can get an A, why can't you? If you study long enough, practice, and work at it you will get an A. The only excuse is if you have a handicap, otherwise suck it and up work harder. We also study a lot more differently than American children too, but that's a whole other conversation.

I don't think most of you realize that students in other countries do exceptionally well in all of these subjects, they attend school and study longer hours. You can't just say that they are being robbed or that they are not creative.

I think that American parents just baby their children into adulthood. I like to call it the Peter Pan complex, they are not raising adults, they are raising individuals who literally only make decisions based on what what they as individuals "feel" like doing. I find that to be weird and selfish. You were not born all by yourself, you come from a family who most likely did a lot of things to provide you with the things you needed while growing up, what right do you have to assume that you owe nothing to them and should just pursue your own "desires" and do what you "feel" like??? I don't think that way. All and everything I am is because of my parents and all of my ancestors. I want to live a life of integrity and actions that not only make them proud but also pass on the positive things that they passed to me.

GF to Coffeetown - Okay, in an ideal world, everyone would be born into wonderfully loving families where we feel cohesive and bonded for life, but in reality some of us did not have that environment as kids. What about the ones raised by psychotic guilt tripping mothers from hell who would give them the silent treatment for two weeks at a time? Are those kids "selfish" for looking out for their own best interest and moving out at 18 or should they be selfless and put up with that crap for the rest of their lives? Screw that. I moved out when I was 18 and never once regretted it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

View from "the finish line"

I was one of those kids that excelled academically throughout School and University (self-motivated as opposed to parent motivated, but same net result). School was my life - I studied hard and recieved several scholarships each year, and graduating at the top of my class at University.

All the ingredients for a successful career right?

After school ended my area of expertise (environmental management and planning) suffered major unemployment due to the downturn in the economy and there was (and continues to be) no jobs for anyone in that area. I moved to a new city (to find work) and left behind my carefully cultivated network of potential colleagues and job opportunities. No one in the real world cares about my academic track record.

Currently I'm working part-time minimum wage because that's all that's available. I hope to go back to school and do an accounting diploma in the summer.(If I went to grad school I'd be stuck in academia- ugh!)

All the A+s in the world are useless if you can't find a job.

This is when a so-called "Chinese mom" would say "that is why you need to get grades good enough to become doctors or lawyers".

yep,that's the Chinese way of thinking....ETA;..if you don't come home with straight A's then you're an underachiever in academic.

 

[VRBeauty]

Just thought I'd post a link to a follow-up story run in the Sacramento Bee today, including insights from other adults who were raised by varying degrees of "Chinese Mothers."

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/13/3322354/tiger-moms-memoir-meets-ferocious.html

I particularly like the quotation that closes the article - I suspect there's a lot of truth there:

Chua considers it a luxury to get to make those choices. Lin understands that in terms of her own parents.

"As an immigrant parent, there aren't a lot of tools you can give your children. You're very powerless in the system. You're very powerless when it comes to language," Lin said. "One of the things that you can do is make sure your kids have a good education and make sure they get into a good school, and after that you can finally rest and take a breath."


Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/13/3322354/tiger-moms-memoir-meets-ferocious.html#ixzz1AzO4FrFY

 

[ForteKitty]

This is really sad. I didn't realize suicide rate in Asian American women were so high. http://www.pacificcitizen.org/site/...ssion,_Suicide_Among_Asian_American_Students_

This is where i found out about the above: http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-A...perior-in-an-op-ed-in-the-Wall-Street-Journal

"My big sister was what I used to jealously call “every Asian parents wet dream come true” (excuse the crassness, but it really does sum up the resentment I used to feel towards her). She got straight As. Skipped 5th grade. Perfect SAT score. Varsity swim team. Student council. Advanced level piano. Harvard early admission. An international post with the Boston Consulting Group in Hong Kong before returning to the U.S. for her Harvard MBA. Six figure salary. Oracle. Peoplesoft. Got engaged to a PhD. Bought a home. Got married.

Her life summed up in one paragraph above.

Her death summed up in one paragraph below.

Committed suicide a month after her wedding at the age of 30 after hiding her depression for 2 years. She ran a plastic tube from the tailpipe of her car into the window. Sat there and died of carbon monoxide poisoning in the garage of her new home in San Francisco. Her husband found her after coming home from work. A post-it note stuck on the dashboard as her suicide note saying sorry and that she loved everyone.

Mine is an extreme example of course. But 6 years since her passing, I can tell you that the notion of the “superior Chinese mother” that my mom carried with her also died with my sister on October 28, 2004. If you were to ask my mom today if this style of parenting worked for her, she’ll point to a few boxes of report cards, trophies, piano books, photo albums and Harvard degrees and gladly trade it all to have my sister back."

 

[coffeetown]

GF to Coffeetown - Okay, in an ideal world, everyone would be born into wonderfully loving families where we feel cohesive and bonded for life, but in reality some of us did not have that environment as kids. What about the ones raised by psychotic guilt tripping mothers from hell who would give them the silent treatment for two weeks at a time? Are those kids "selfish" for looking out for their own best interest and moving out at 18 or should they be selfless and put up with that crap for the rest of their lives? Screw that. I moved out when I was 18 and never once regretted it.

Morning, I'm about to leave for rounds @ the hospital but wanted to reply real quick.

The reason you mention is exactly why in a comment above I specifically said that the article misses a bit the point of class/privilege and general understanding that not all children are able to have stay at home mom's, attend schools in affluent areas... where property taxes allow for better classroom environments... etc. etc. I recognize that. I actually dislike the overall rigidness that's expressed in the article but still agree w/ the overall arching point. Does that make any sense?

 

[steph72276]

This is really sad. I didn't realize suicide rate in Asian American women were so high. http://www.pacificcitizen.org/site/...ssion,_Suicide_Among_Asian_American_Students_

This is where i found out about the above: http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-A...perior-in-an-op-ed-in-the-Wall-Street-Journal

"My big sister was what I used to jealously call “every Asian parents wet dream come true” (excuse the crassness, but it really does sum up the resentment I used to feel towards her). She got straight As. Skipped 5th grade. Perfect SAT score. Varsity swim team. Student council. Advanced level piano. Harvard early admission. An international post with the Boston Consulting Group in Hong Kong before returning to the U.S. for her Harvard MBA. Six figure salary. Oracle. Peoplesoft. Got engaged to a PhD. Bought a home. Got married.

Her life summed up in one paragraph above.

Her death summed up in one paragraph below.

Committed suicide a month after her wedding at the age of 30 after hiding her depression for 2 years. She ran a plastic tube from the tailpipe of her car into the window. Sat there and died of carbon monoxide poisoning in the garage of her new home in San Francisco. Her husband found her after coming home from work. A post-it note stuck on the dashboard as her suicide note saying sorry and that she loved everyone.

Mine is an extreme example of course. But 6 years since her passing, I can tell you that the notion of the “superior Chinese mother” that my mom carried with her also died with my sister on October 28, 2004. If you were to ask my mom today if this style of parenting worked for her, she’ll point to a few boxes of report cards, trophies, piano books, photo albums and Harvard degrees and gladly trade it all to have my sister back."

I'm not surprised. With that type of pressure to excel at everything, fail at nothing, and a stigma associated with any mental health issues, it is a recipe for high suicide rates.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

GF to Coffeetown - Okay, in an ideal world, everyone would be born into wonderfully loving families where we feel cohesive and bonded for life, but in reality some of us did not have that environment as kids. What about the ones raised by psychotic guilt tripping mothers from hell who would give them the silent treatment for two weeks at a time? Are those kids "selfish" for looking out for their own best interest and moving out at 18 or should they be selfless and put up with that crap for the rest of their lives? Screw that. I moved out when I was 18 and never once regretted it.

Morning, I'm about to leave for rounds @ the hospital but wanted to reply real quick.

The reason you mention is exactly why in a comment above I specifically said that the article misses a bit the point of class/privilege and general understanding that not all children are able to have stay at home mom's, attend schools in affluent areas... where property taxes allow for better classroom environments... etc. etc. I recognize that. I actually dislike the overall rigidness that's expressed in the article but still agree w/ the overall arching point. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, makes total sense.