"Why Chinese mothers are superior"

[kenny]

What a wonderful eye-opening discussion this has been for me.
Thanks all!

 

[dragonfly411]

Kenny - Agreed! You've had some awesome ones lately too!!

 

[ForteKitty]

has this interview been posted? http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3041445/vp/41017904/#41017904

 

[kenny]

Thanks FT.

I hope, no I expect, her book will ignite a vibrant discussion that will result in better parenting and better kids.

 

[zhuzhu]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

 

[TravelingGal]

Meredith didn't look very impressed, eh?

I do think Chau has some things right in theory. But IMHO she went too far, which she admits.

I agree with Chau that my mom was often quite horrified at what she saw when it came to "western" parenting. I was not allowed to sleep over at my American's friend's house. And my mom wasn't crazy...it was because my friend's mom was a single parent, only 28 years old in a 3 bedroom apartment where she shared one room with her daughter and rented out the other two rooms with 25 year old men because she preferred the company of men. Obviously, in hindsight, I don't think my mom was thinking like an asian - she was thinking like a mother! But back then, I wondered what the big deal was...these men were old fogies to me and we were just kids. Ah, innocence.

BTW, I think sleep overs are become a thing of years past, much like how we don't let kids really roam around by themselves anymore. Hardly any mothers I know (many of them fairly lax) will not allow their daughters to sleep over. One too many episodes of Oprah on child molestation. I was also discussing this with my friends the other day...I initially thought I'd be OK with having other girls over at our house to sleep over. But in this scary day and age of suing, I think it's possible that one of them could feel uncomfortable for one reason or another; report back to their parents and start a firestorm.

 

[TravelingGal]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

No, I think she does. But I think also she's going to take it personally, to some extent, and not completely acknowledge it outright. She's definitely putting herself out there with this book. The excerpt they pulled from it for the WSJ was marketing genius.

I think it's obvious she holds the "chinese" way of parenting superior to the overall loosey goosey coddling "western" way of parenting. But I think she does see why the general public would think she's over the top. She's not going to back down, because overall, she believes the success of her children are because of her influence.

 

[kenny]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

I'd be careful there.
Getting is a loaded word.
It oozes with judgement and self righteousness.

There is understanding, agreeing with, disagreeing with, sharing a view. . . etc.
But sometimes when I hear someone say, "Soandso doesn't "get it" ", I sense that person feels that there is one universal external and absolute truth that by definition applies to everyone.
Someone having a different perspective challenges that premiss.

Sometimes thinking someone doesn't "get it" is really an indication of intolerance and not respecting diversity.
I hear this "they don't get it" all the time in discussions of politics and religion.

People just vary.

 

[zhuzhu]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

I'd be careful there.
Getting is a loaded word.
It oozes with judgement and self righteousness.

There is understanding, agreeing with, disagreeing with, sharing a view. . . etc.
But sometimes when I hear someone say, "Soandso doesn't "get it" ", I sense that person feels that there is one universal external and absolute truth that by definition applies to everyone.
Someone having a different perspective challenges that premiss.

Sometimes thinking someone doesn't "get it" is really an indication of intolerance and not respecting diversity.
I hear this "they don't get it" all the time in discussions of politics and religion.

People just vary.

People do vary.
And maybe you think a bit too much about what the word implies?

 

[dragonfly411]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

I'd be careful there.
Getting is a loaded word.
It oozes with judgement and self righteousness.

There is understanding, agreeing with, disagreeing with, sharing a view. . . etc.
But sometimes when I hear someone say, "Soandso doesn't "get it" ", I sense that person feels that there is one universal external and absolute truth that by definition applies to everyone.
Someone having a different perspective challenges that premiss.

Sometimes thinking someone doesn't "get it" is really an indication of intolerance and not respecting diversity.
I hear this "they don't get it" all the time in discussions of politics and religion.

People just vary.

I generally associate it with a lack or gain of understanding about something. I don't think the woman understands why others might be critical of her. I think that's what was meant with the post.

 

[kenny]

I think the woman is quite bright and understands everything.
She's made choices that are not popular here and now.

Now she's making money off the outrage and riding the media attention like a surfer riding a wave - as did Madonna and Lady Gaga.

 

[TravelingGal]

I think the woman is quite bright and understands everything.
She's made choices that are not popular here and now.

Now she's making money off the outrage and riding the media attention like a surfer riding a wave - as did Madonna and Lady Gaga.

Yup, cuz it's going to cost a lot of money to send these super kids to Harvard and beyond..............

 

[kenny]

I just don't think she "gets" why some readers criticize her parenting ways.

I'd be careful there.
Getting is a loaded word.
It oozes with judgement and self righteousness.

There is understanding, agreeing with, disagreeing with, sharing a view. . . etc.
But sometimes when I hear someone say, "Soandso doesn't "get it" ", I sense that person feels that there is one universal external and absolute truth that by definition applies to everyone.
Someone having a different perspective challenges that premiss.

Sometimes thinking someone doesn't "get it" is really an indication of intolerance and not respecting diversity.
I hear this "they don't get it" all the time in discussions of politics and religion.

People just vary.

I generally associate it with a lack or gain of understanding about something. I don't think the woman understands why others might be critical of her. I think that's what was meant with the post.

I suspect she does understand and she does "get it".
She just doesn't agree.

I am opposed to the mentality that if someone truly "understood" or "got it" they'd think just like me.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

 

[ForteKitty]

After watching the interview, my own impressions of her softened somewhat. She admits that she was wrong in some of her methods, and says the book isn't a guide to parenting, but her own journey. At least she admits her flaws.

btw, I just heard from a friend (who went absolutely nuts w/ rage when she first read the article) that the kids are pretty well-adjusted and very normal, very confident. Apparently my friend's brother knew them. I can't help but think that some of what she wrote was exaggerated for the gasp factor. and it worked!

 

[slg47]

A fine pianist on a fine piano that is well-voiced, tuned and regulated can rip your heart out.

I find this method of parenting and attitude towards music produces excellent technicians but not true artists.

 

[zhuzhu]

After watching the interview, my own impressions of her softened somewhat. She admits that she was wrong in some of her methods, and says the book isn't a guide to parenting, but her own journey. At least she admits her flaws.

btw, I just heard from a friend (who went absolutely nuts w/ rage when she first read the article) that the kids are pretty well-adjusted and very normal, very confident. Apparently my friend's brother knew them. I can't help but think that some of what she wrote was exaggerated for the gasp factor. and it worked!

I think the type of parenting style she advocates for CAN produce children who have extra large ego and appear especially confident on the surface. The children are taught to be "winners" and "act as if" they are successful in everything they do. The true representation of a confident person is peace that glows from within. I can't say if her children are well-adjusted or not, but it is not very difficult to teach people to ACT as if they are well-adjusted and confident of themselves, ALL THE TIME.

 

[zhuzhu]

A fine pianist on a fine piano that is well-voiced, tuned and regulated can rip your heart out.

I find this method of parenting and attitude towards music produces excellent technicians but not true artists.

I agree 100%. Tue artists require both talent and hard work. For the children who are not "sufficiently talented", parents like her can produce good technical musicians. For the children who ARE talented, this kind of push can sometimes turn children into concert musicians, but equally as likely turn the interest and love for music off for these talented children for good.

 

[TravelingGal]

I want to know what she would have done if her kid had been dyslexic. Oh, the HORROR.

What a stupid cow. Sorry. I totally disagree with the majority of what she's saying. NEVER could calling your child "garbage" be ok.

Since she says she loves her kids, and I don't believe this woman is stupid, I think she would have helped her child through dyslexia just fine.

As far as the garbage stuff goes, yes, it sounds harsh. But come on, MOST parents lose it at some point with their kids and say SOMETHING that isn't nice.

I DO think if you look at parenting only through the eyes of your own culture, it's easy to make these absolute statements that say "never", etc. But you should hear some of the stuff my aunt has said to my cousins growing up. My aunt had a foul mouth and a sharp tongue, and constantly expressed her disappointment (especially when neither got married "on time.") Both my cousins are well adjusted, confident and very close with my aunt, and it is obvious by her actions how much she loves them. They're able to see through the words. I know it's strange, but it seems totally outrageous until you witness it firsthand.

However, I was ALWAYS glad I had my mother and not theirs!!!

 

[ForteKitty]

I think the type of parenting style she advocates for CAN produce children who have extra large ego and appear especially confident on the surface. The children are taught to be "winners" and "act as if" they are successful in everything they do. The true representation of a confident person is peace that glows from within. I can't say if her children are well-adjusted or not, but it is not very difficult to teach people to ACT as if they are well-adjusted and confident of themselves, ALL THE TIME.

No doubt kids who were groomed to act successful can appear confident all the time. We'll never know.

I got curious and wiki'd her. Impressive stats. If she was my mother, i'd feel a whole lot of pressure to be just as successful. To me, that might be even more pressure than just having my mom on my back like a monkey.

Analogy's a bit off, but it kind of reminds me of athletes and kids. Take Michael Jordan, for instance. Superstar athlete dad, and above average b-ball sons... but no matter how good they are, they're still not as good as MJ.

pressure!

 

[zoebartlett]

Just began reading this thread...

I read the article yesterday and I found it really interesting. I'm from a western culture/non-Asian heritage and I didn't have the same experiences growing up as the author's children have had. I've never known anyone who grew up in a household where the parents' expectations were so high. I wonder how the author's children feel when they hear their friends talking about play dates, sleepovers, etc.

Off to continue reading!

 

[zhuzhu]

Just began reading this thread...

I read the article yesterday and I found it really interesting. I'm from a western culture/non-Asian heritage and I didn't have the same experiences growing up as the author's children have had. I've never known anyone who grew up in a household where the parents' expectations were so high. I wonder how the author's children feel when they hear their friends talking about play dates, sleepovers, etc.

Off to continue reading!

My guess is, they wouldn't be allowed to feel bad about not going to their friends' parties. They were most likely taught by the parents that "you don't go to these parties because you are better and smarter than your friends".

 

[zoebartlett]

Just began reading this thread...

I read the article yesterday and I found it really interesting. I'm from a western culture/non-Asian heritage and I didn't have the same experiences growing up as the author's children have had. I've never known anyone who grew up in a household where the parents' expectations were so high. I wonder how the author's children feel when they hear their friends talking about play dates, sleepovers, etc.

Off to continue reading!

My guess is, they wouldn't be allowed to feel bad about not going to their friends' parties. They were most likely taught by the parents that "you don't go to these parties because you are better and smarter than your friends".

Interesting viewpoint!

I can only imagine how I would have done in her family. Oy. I wasn't an A student in middle/high school. I got Bs, and to be honest, Cs were perfectly acceptable in math and science. I worked very hard but those subjects never clicked for me as English and social studies did. I wasn't in honors level classes; I was just below that level in high school. I played the flute for a very, very brief time in middle school before I decided that I didn't like it anymore. I did take piano for about a year or so, but I never learned to read music. We ended up selling the piano and my music lessons were officially over forever. My parents never pushed me. They introduced music and sports to me and after a trial period of different things, they let me decide whether or not to pursue them. My parents did push me and they had high expectations in certain ways. For example, it was never a question of whether I was going to college; it was a matter of where I'd go. I was allowed to have and go on sleepovers. I played with friends pretty much every day. The term 'play date' wasn't really used back then. I have a feeling that I would have been a huge disappointment to the author.

 

[sillyberry]

::snip:: BTW, I think sleep overs are become a thing of years past, much like how we don't let kids really roam around by themselves anymore. Hardly any mothers I know (many of them fairly lax) will not allow their daughters to sleep over. One too many episodes of Oprah on child molestation. I was also discussing this with my friends the other day...I initially thought I'd be OK with having other girls over at our house to sleep over. But in this scary day and age of suing, I think it's possible that one of them could feel uncomfortable for one reason or another; report back to their parents and start a firestorm. ::snip::

Really? How depressing. I can't think of anything more emblematic of my childhood than the weekly sleepovers with my friends. I hate to think they've become a relic.

 

[kenny]

What is a sleepover?

 

[sillyberry]

What is a sleepover?

In my experience, it is where girls get together and sleep over at one girl's house. There may be 2 girls total or there may be 10. Sometimes just because or sometimes in honor of something like a birthday.

There was frequently Barbie playing, hair braiding, popcorn making, scary movie watching, and (once older) incessant talk about boys. Staying up late and raiding the fridge was a must. There also used to be a lot of prank phone calling, but that was before Caller ID and cellphones, so I'm not sure how effective that is anymore!

When I was little, sleepovers started around kindergarten and continued on through high school. For whatever reason girls had sleepovers a lot more often than boys did, although that wasn't uncommon.

 

[Kaleigh]

Why no play dates??

 

[TravelingGal]

Why no play dates??

Maybe because it cuts into music practice and highlights playing as a worthy activity?

 

[ForteKitty]

i think it's too dangerous to have sleepovers now. you really dont know what the other family does behind closed doors. i wouldn't risk my child getting molested.

 

[sillyberry]

i think it's too dangerous to have sleepovers now. you really dont know what the other family does behind closed doors. i wouldn't risk my child getting molested.

But hasn't that always been true? I mean, freaky stuff has been happening as long as there have been humans around to do freaky things. The vast majority of times things turn out just fine. I'm not a parent, so maybe this is not the way I would feel in those circumstances, but I'm just so sad to think my kid wouldn't have those same wonderful memories that I did. And my friends came form an assortment of families - there were the free-love hippies, the uptight WASPs, awkward scientists, the lawyer who defended drug dealers and prostitutes, the virtual Cleavers...I learned so much about human dynamics and families from those interactions, plus how to navigate interpersonal social relationships. And had so much fun.

More than anything this really really depresses me. Far more than I would have imagined. I'm glad my parents were fairly permissive.

Although, thinking about it, my sister has young girls and I know they have sleepovers with their friends. So perhaps the world as I would like to see it still exists.

(sorry totally off-topic from the original query)