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Why can't I find a diamond with the "ideal" specs?

deviate

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
34
Hello, I've been browsing the forums and used pricescope for my diamond search but only 1 or 2 diamonds show up. What am I doing wrong or are my criteria's too strict? Here are the specs I'm using for a search:

AGS Ideal
GIA EX
1.4-1.5
H or I
SI1
Depth - 60 - 62%
Table - 54- 57%
Crown Angle - 34- 35 degrees
Pavilion Angle - 40.6- 41 degrees

I'm also trying to determine how to look at the diamond images to make sure the SI1 is eye clean? Any help in finding something would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
I think by selecting only H and I and SI may be limiting the search. What is your price point?
 
I would like to keep it in the $10K range but I know she has her heart set on 1.5 and I don't want to sacrifice the cut so I was thinking H or I is my best bet.
 
deviate|1376416606|3502195 said:
I use the same search, but added a few things:

AGS Ideal
GIA EX
1.4-1.5
D/E/F/G/H/I
VS1/VS2/SI1
Depth - 60 - 62%
Table - 54- 57%
Crown Angle - 34- 35 degrees
Pavilion Angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
<------ I removed these

I'm also trying to determine how to look at the diamond images to make sure the SI1 is eye clean?
Post the photos on PS and the seasoned vets will help you... you can also call JA and have them check for you. :))

Then just compare those that do not have "obvious" inclusions. If you like them, then run the HCA calculator to weed out a few.
 
deviate|1376417383|3502206 said:
I would like to keep it in the $10K range but I know she has her heart set on 1.5 and I don't want to sacrifice the cut so I was thinking H or I is my best bet.

It would be difficult to find, but I'd try to go the I, SI/1 or clean SI2 route for close to a 1.5 ct. An I will be white (FL would be cool, too). You are so right to not sacrifice cut!! :appl:

I will look a little on JA.
 
Thanks for the help. I was also wondering on the JA website true hearts and arrows vs Ideal. I was told that even if it doesn't have hearts and arrows it could as brilliant along as it has an ideal cut? Is that true?
 
Yes that's true. H&A designation is not a standardized assessment, so different vendors, especially B&M stores, will call something H&A that another may not. Some people say "oh it has arrows and hearts so it must be H&A", whereas others will be very picky about the uniformity of the arrows, the size and alignment of the clefts of the hearts, etc.

Don't limit your search to either "designation" - ideal cut stones (i.e. AGS 0 for example) may not exhibit perfect hearts but still put out a fantastic light show. And vice versa - a stone may have great H&A, but the angles of the srown & pavillion may not play well together and the stone will have leakage of light. BUT - most of the time, if a cutter is that precise in defining the H&A they are also going to watch the angles.

Above all else don't sacrifice on cut quality - perfect H&A is a nice "side effect" of being ideal light performance, but it is not necessary. You won't see the hearts once it is set, and most ideal cut stones have nice arrows, which is what you will see.
 
ecf8503|1376418903|3502227 said:
Yes that's true. H&A designation is not a standardized assessment, so different vendors, especially B&M stores, will call something H&A that another may not. Some people say "oh it has arrows and hearts so it must be H&A", whereas others will be very picky about the uniformity of the arrows, the size and alignment of the clefts of the hearts, etc.

Don't limit your search to either "designation" - ideal cut stones (i.e. AGS 0 for example) may not exhibit perfect hearts but still put out a fantastic light show. And vice versa - a stone may have great H&A, but the angles of the srown & pavillion may not play well together and the stone will have leakage of light. BUT - most of the time, if a cutter is that precise in defining the H&A they are also going to watch the angles.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the statement that H&A are brighter than all excellent cut diamonds. Very few can tell the difference (unaided eye) in a branded H&A and a stone that just missed the cut . H&A is a branded cut. It is cut perfectly, but not worth the premium you pay to have the name. Personally, I'd rather find an unbranded stone that missed H&A status by something really trivial and pay a lot less. It's always been my opinion that it's a shame to pay for something that won't/can't be appreciated. No one will be able to tell by just looking at it with the unaided eye.

I do agree with the bolded, however. :praise:
 
OP, I'd put this stone on hold ASAP!! It's gorgeous!
HCA: 1.4
7.32 x 7.36 (nice spread!)
$10,890

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-242826

Since you can put up to three on hold, I'd hold these:
You may want to ask JA if these are eye clean... The H/VS1 looks like it would be clean, but the H/SI1 is iffy (however, inclusions are not on the table)

Here is the link to all three for comparison:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...56.9&DepthTo=62.0&TableFrom=54.0&TableTo=57.0

EDIT: the other two scored 1.3 & 1.4 on the HCA
 
deviate|1376420166|3502235 said:
Boatluvr|1376419662|3502232 said:

Thanks for the search. I know the image is magnified at 40X but it looks like there's a big inclusion right on the table, do you think it will still be eye clean?

No, I don't think it will be clean. It's a rather large black inclusion right smack dab in the middle. :errrr:
 
deviate|1376417383|3502206 said:
I would like to keep it in the $10K range but I know she has her heart set on 1.5 and I don't want to sacrifice the cut so I was thinking H or I is my best bet.

deviate, don't forget PS members get a 1-5% discount (I think it's more like 1%, but every little bit helps!) on JA. :appl:

Seriously... put those on hold -- especially #242826 (I/VS1) @ $10,890...
 
msop04|1376420427|3502236 said:
ecf8503|1376418903|3502227 said:
Yes that's true. H&A designation is not a standardized assessment, so different vendors, especially B&M stores, will call something H&A that another may not. Some people say "oh it has arrows and hearts so it must be H&A", whereas others will be very picky about the uniformity of the arrows, the size and alignment of the clefts of the hearts, etc.

Don't limit your search to either "designation" - ideal cut stones (i.e. AGS 0 for example) may not exhibit perfect hearts but still put out a fantastic light show. And vice versa - a stone may have great H&A, but the angles of the srown & pavillion may not play well together and the stone will have leakage of light. BUT - most of the time, if a cutter is that precise in defining the H&A they are also going to watch the angles.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the statement that H&A are brighter than all excellent cut diamonds. Very few can tell the difference (unaided eye) in a branded H&A and a stone that just missed the cut . H&A is a branded cut. It is cut perfectly, but not worth the premium you pay to have the name. Personally, I'd rather find an unbranded stone that missed H&A status by something really trivial and pay a lot less. It's always been my opinion that it's a shame to pay for something that won't/can't be appreciated. No one will be able to tell by just looking at it with the unaided eye.

I do agree with the bolded, however. :praise:

I'm sorry if what I wrote was misconstrued - I know that H&A does not equal ideal light performance. That's the whole point I was trying to make.

H&A is not a branded cut, it's merely a description of a pattern. Anyone can call a stone H&A. They can even engrave it on the girdle - but the perfection of the H&A may not not meet all vendor's criteria.
 
msop04|1376421249|3502244 said:
deviate|1376417383|3502206 said:
I would like to keep it in the $10K range but I know she has her heart set on 1.5 and I don't want to sacrifice the cut so I was thinking H or I is my best bet.

deviate, don't forget PS members get a 1-5% discount (I think it's more like 1%, but every little bit helps!) on JA. :appl:

Seriously... put those on hold -- especially #242826 (I/VS1) @ $10,890...

Thanks a lot for the help. I will look at these 3. How do I get the discount? Do I just mention I'm a PS member? Also to put a diamond on hold, do I just do a live chat?
 
msop04|1376420925|3502240 said:
OP, I'd put this stone on hold ASAP!! It's gorgeous!
HCA: 1.4
7.32 x 7.36 (nice spread!)
$10,890

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-242826

Since you can put up to three on hold, I'd hold these:
You may want to ask JA if these are eye clean... The H/VS1 looks like it would be clean, but the H/SI1 is iffy (however, inclusions are not on the table)

Here is the link to all three for comparison:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...56.9&DepthTo=62.0&TableFrom=54.0&TableTo=57.0

EDIT: the other two scored 1.3 & 1.4 on the HCA

I see the girdle is medium to slightly thick on the first one you recommended. Is that of any concern?
 
ecf8503|1376422256|3502253 said:
I'm sorry if what I wrote was misconstrued - I know that H&A does not equal ideal light performance. That's the whole point I was trying to make.

H&A is not a branded cut, it's merely a description of a pattern. Anyone can call a stone H&A. They can even engrave it on the girdle - but the perfection of the H&A may not not meet all vendor's criteria.

Oh, no worries!! I'm so sorry if that came off wrong!! :oops: I didn't want the OP to think that it's worth the premium for the brand name... well, to me it's not. ;))
 
deviate|1376422912|3502263 said:
I see the girdle is medium to slightly thick on the first one you recommended. Is that of any concern?

None at all. :bigsmile:

EDIT: one may worry about chipping if the girdle was extremely thin.... or if the girdle was extremely thick, it can hold carat weight that will make it face up smaller than another stone of the same weight.
 
deviate|1376422616|3502256 said:
Thanks a lot for the help. I will look at these 3. How do I get the discount? Do I just mention I'm a PS member? Also to put a diamond on hold, do I just do a live chat?

I'm pretty sure you just mention it for the discount. As for the hold, I would call and speak with someone, but you could most definitely try the chat -- hopefully, the SA can give you a confirmation that the stone(s) were put on hold.
 
Why are they hard to find? Because the 1.5ct range is what a lot of people target for an upgrade. There is a lot of competition for a stone in the approximate 7.4 - 7.5mm diameter range that's around $10,000 or less. It's the range I occasionally look through, looking for a bargain 1.55 - 1.6ct or so. My local jewelry store says the average e-ring diamond now is .5ct - .75ct, down from about 1ct prior to the 2009 economic downturn, and that the most often sought upgrade or anniversary purchase is 1.5 ct.
 
OP, put that I VS1 msop found on hold right now!!
Doesn't get better than that by any metric :sun:
 
Yssie|1376423930|3502280 said:
OP, put that I VS1 msop found on hold right now!!
Doesn't get better than that by any metric :sun:

There is a vote of confidence I will take to the bank!

Regarding your original question, very very few diamonds are cut in the 1.4 to 1.5 range. That is because there is a huge price increase a 1.5ct and most cutters will do whatever it takes to eke out an extra .10ct and make that bump in per carat price! The largest inventory is just over 1ct, just over 1.2ct, just over 1.5ct... all major price bumps. If you wanted a 1.2ct or a 1.55ct you would have many more options.
 
Thank you so much for the help everyone and msop04 for finding the diamond. I will request to put that on hold. Should I request JA for an idealscope image or there's no point given the dimensions?
 
deviate|1376424628|3502287 said:
Thank you so much for the help everyone and msop04 for finding the diamond. I will request to put that on hold. Should I request JA for an idealscope image or there's no point given the dimensions?

Requesting the IS is free and it won't take more than a couple of days, and your stone will be held during that time no worries. It won't tell you anything you don't already know but I always like more info, even if it's just for the sake of having more info!

Edit: I should've said "it won't tell you anything you don't already know from just the info you already have" - meaning that seeing it in-person is the next step in terms of information-gathering!

Ditto Dreamer and TC re. reasons for the lack of availability... if a couple of promising options hadn't been suggested I would've added that your original parameters are unnecessarily tight, but given what msop dug up there's no reason not to get exactly what you want, tight parameters and all ::)
 
Dreamer_D|1376424289|3502284 said:
Yssie|1376423930|3502280 said:
OP, put that I VS1 msop found on hold right now!!
Doesn't get better than that by any metric :sun:

There is a vote of confidence I will take to the bank!

Regarding your original question, very very few diamonds are cut in the 1.4 to 1.5 range. That is because there is a huge price increase a 1.5ct and most cutters will do whatever it takes to eke out an extra .10ct and make that bump in per carat price! The largest inventory is just over 1ct, just over 1.2ct, just over 1.5ct... all major price bumps. If you wanted a 1.2ct or a 1.55ct you would have many more options.

Gosh, this is so strange to me, but true! My 2.43 cost significantly less than a 2.50 with the exact same specs!! ...sooooo worth it to find a diamond just below the cutoffs!! ;))
 
deviate|1376424628|3502287 said:
Thank you so much for the help everyone and msop04 for finding the diamond. I will request to put that on hold. Should I request JA for an idealscope image or there's no point given the dimensions?

You're so welcome!! I'm excited for you!! :appl:
 
Decent crown height despite small crown angle thanks to table%, but
1. Old report. I personally would want an independent appraisal to confirm no wear and tear during the intervening years, which adds cost and time.
2. I don't like thn girdles + low crown heights esp. if you're planning on an "open" four-prong setting.
3. I thought they'd uploaded the wrong video, then I saw the note: Sample image. Request actual image
 
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