Why are similar diamonds with simlar characteristics different prices?
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Best advice I have is to go back to the homepage and read the diamond tutorial in its entirety. We''re all about helping here, but when one poses general questions such as yours it''s easier on all involved if you really do your homework first and attempt to self-educate, then come back with specific questions relating to particular stones. HTH!
My answer to this question is that the price of a diamond also relies on qualities that are often not listed. eg extra fine cut and or polish.
Also consider that each category has a range within that category. eg. SI2 is notorious for including a lot of variance within the definition, some also refer to an additional subset, being SI3. So two diamonds with the same stats might still be at opposite ends of the range that they have been graded as.
You also have to consider the source of the grades!!!!!
And definately read up as much as you can as per advice given.....its the only way!!!!!
Also consider that each category has a range within that category. eg. SI2 is notorious for including a lot of variance within the definition, some also refer to an additional subset, being SI3. So two diamonds with the same stats might still be at opposite ends of the range that they have been graded as.
You also have to consider the source of the grades!!!!!
And definately read up as much as you can as per advice given.....its the only way!!!!!
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There are two major issues at play. The first and usually the largest is when you get into ‘exact’ same parameters. Cut, in particular, will vary quite a bit within the range of stones that appear on the tables with some of the same general parameters and theres quite a bit of important information that isn't contained on the lab reports. The other parameters are subject to issues of grading accuracy as well. One graders idea of a G color may be another graders idea of a J. The differences can be considerable. This makes it very difficult to compare stones based on purely the paperwork, especially if they weren’t graded by the same source. The market tends to make up for some of this. Misgraded stones or ones with cut problems tend to be priced lower than otherwise similar stones and the ones with ‘extra’ bells and whistles tend to be priced higher. The way you tell the difference is through the good advice of your dealer. Ask ‘em. If they can’t or won’t tell you, or you simply don’t believe them, consider getting it appraised by our own expert before committing to the dealer. If you think they’re lying to you, start shopping for a different dealer.
The other difference is in the dealers themselves. There are a fair number of cases where they are offering the exact same stone at different prices. Some are offering better service, like they will order in the stone for you and walk you through a personal inspection in their showroom or will offer perks like tradeup programs or access to their designers while others will simply have their suppliers dropship you a box in the mail. Some are just trying to get paid better. There’s an article about this in the journal section here.
How much of this value added service you want depends on your own shopping style and to an extent on what you're buying. Some want a lot while others prefer to do the whole process themselves.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
The other difference is in the dealers themselves. There are a fair number of cases where they are offering the exact same stone at different prices. Some are offering better service, like they will order in the stone for you and walk you through a personal inspection in their showroom or will offer perks like tradeup programs or access to their designers while others will simply have their suppliers dropship you a box in the mail. Some are just trying to get paid better. There’s an article about this in the journal section here.
How much of this value added service you want depends on your own shopping style and to an extent on what you're buying. Some want a lot while others prefer to do the whole process themselves.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
I guess I ''m still not 100% clear....say for example I do a random search on bluenile for 2.01RBC/idea cut/ex/ex/f/vs2/N fluorescence.
I get 4 certed with GIA, of course with different depth/tables/girdle etc. But one would think that the prices would be similar, yet can vary from $27220, to $29762. That''s a significant difference of over $2500, almost 10% difference.
You can do the exact same for WF website or any other and there will be differences that are similar. Is it only that the dealer feels one is a better stone than the other, even though both have received similar specs by the GIA?
Thanks.
I get 4 certed with GIA, of course with different depth/tables/girdle etc. But one would think that the prices would be similar, yet can vary from $27220, to $29762. That''s a significant difference of over $2500, almost 10% difference.
You can do the exact same for WF website or any other and there will be differences that are similar. Is it only that the dealer feels one is a better stone than the other, even though both have received similar specs by the GIA?
Thanks.
Independent Gal
Ideal_Rock
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Well, one thing to keep in mind with Blue Nile is that they are a front room for dozens and dozens of different dealers. So the price variations there can also reflect different dealers' ideas of a good profit margin, overhead costs, etc. Just as two B&M stores won't be selling at EXACTLY the same price, so BN's vendors don't too. That's one of the things I love about Blue Nile, actually. Sometimes you can find great deals that way.
It does mean you get your 'eyeballing help' 2nd hand though (as in, if you're buying an SI1 and want to know if it's eye clean, then BN calls the vendor, and then calls you back... more room for fuzz!) but their generous return policy offsets THAT risk.
ETA: other things that affect the cost: face-up size, girdle, how 'excellent' is 'excellent' with the cut, the nature and location of the inclusions.... But my advice with BN would be, find all the stones that meet the most stringent cut specs and your other parameters. Then buy the cheapest one and enjoy!
It does mean you get your 'eyeballing help' 2nd hand though (as in, if you're buying an SI1 and want to know if it's eye clean, then BN calls the vendor, and then calls you back... more room for fuzz!) but their generous return policy offsets THAT risk.
ETA: other things that affect the cost: face-up size, girdle, how 'excellent' is 'excellent' with the cut, the nature and location of the inclusions.... But my advice with BN would be, find all the stones that meet the most stringent cut specs and your other parameters. Then buy the cheapest one and enjoy!
Also, this answer comes to my mind as a consequence to your question.
There are no bargains due to slip ups or arbitrage. If two stones have the same stats and are different prices, you can be certain that there is a difference between the stones. If a diamond presents as much cheaper than `similar` ones, it will be because there is something wrong with it. Ultimately the consumer will make a choice regarding what he is prepared to pay, and what he is prepared to sacrifice out of the 4 c`s.
It is interesting that some of the aspects that we pay extra for cannot be seen with the naked eye, and alternatively, some of the things that discount a diamond are not noticable by the naked eye. In an optimal situation, you would trade off as much as possible in the things you cant see ie choose eye clean when set, and pay extra for things that you can. ie size, cut, color!
It is a very interesting process!
There are no bargains due to slip ups or arbitrage. If two stones have the same stats and are different prices, you can be certain that there is a difference between the stones. If a diamond presents as much cheaper than `similar` ones, it will be because there is something wrong with it. Ultimately the consumer will make a choice regarding what he is prepared to pay, and what he is prepared to sacrifice out of the 4 c`s.
It is interesting that some of the aspects that we pay extra for cannot be seen with the naked eye, and alternatively, some of the things that discount a diamond are not noticable by the naked eye. In an optimal situation, you would trade off as much as possible in the things you cant see ie choose eye clean when set, and pay extra for things that you can. ie size, cut, color!
It is a very interesting process!
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For starters, GIA doesn’t use the term ‘ideal cut’. This is something BN added as a translation of GIA’s ‘excellent’ cut grade. Excellent means that a stone is in the top 20% on GIA’s scale. Some would argue that the range is even bigger than that because the bottom grades of fair and poor are extremely rare in recently cut stones so it’s really more like the top 33%. Why is it surprising that these are priced differently? Try narrowing down your target to AGS graded ideals and you’ll have a narrower focus within the pricing of a particular dealer because their parameters for their top grade are much more specific.
The color and clarity grades are not carved in stone. These are done by humans and a ‘certificate’ does not change the stone, only the pedigree. All other things being equal, a GIA/F that the pros think should have been graded a G will trade for less than a GIA/F that the pros think should have been an E.
Blue Nile is primarily a drop shipper. This means that they are selling stones that they’ve never seen. Their supplier writes the description and feeds the data to their website, they mark it up a bit to cover their service and it gets shipped directly to you by the supplier when you buy it. This is a fairly efficient system and leads to attractive prices but it means that you are relying on an unknown party to describe the stone. If there’s something about it that doesn’t appear on the ‘cert’, you have no way of knowing until you show it to your own expert. Since the majority of shoppers skip this step because they think it saves them money, the dropship venue tends to attract certain stones that would be difficult to sell otherwise.
Imagine that you’re shopping for a used car and all you have is a list of 10,000 cars with make, year, model, mileage, price and a dealer-supplied comment about condition on a 5 step scale that ranges from scrap to awesome. This is kind of what the blue book does and it’s enough to get you into the neighborhood of knowing what is worth considering but you’ll find quite a price range for supposedly identical cars. The span will be far more than 10%. The cheapest probably isn’t the best, even if the description supplied is accurate.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
The color and clarity grades are not carved in stone. These are done by humans and a ‘certificate’ does not change the stone, only the pedigree. All other things being equal, a GIA/F that the pros think should have been graded a G will trade for less than a GIA/F that the pros think should have been an E.
Blue Nile is primarily a drop shipper. This means that they are selling stones that they’ve never seen. Their supplier writes the description and feeds the data to their website, they mark it up a bit to cover their service and it gets shipped directly to you by the supplier when you buy it. This is a fairly efficient system and leads to attractive prices but it means that you are relying on an unknown party to describe the stone. If there’s something about it that doesn’t appear on the ‘cert’, you have no way of knowing until you show it to your own expert. Since the majority of shoppers skip this step because they think it saves them money, the dropship venue tends to attract certain stones that would be difficult to sell otherwise.
Imagine that you’re shopping for a used car and all you have is a list of 10,000 cars with make, year, model, mileage, price and a dealer-supplied comment about condition on a 5 step scale that ranges from scrap to awesome. This is kind of what the blue book does and it’s enough to get you into the neighborhood of knowing what is worth considering but you’ll find quite a price range for supposedly identical cars. The span will be far more than 10%. The cheapest probably isn’t the best, even if the description supplied is accurate.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
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Don''t assume that what is described about a diamond covers a complete description. There are many nuances which are hardly ever discussed which have an effect on value and salability. Don''t assume that all descriptions are perfectly accurate, either. The systems has subjective elements which effect asking price. Don''t assume each diamond, regarldess of similarity cost the same to produce. Each piece of rough is judged on its own for cost and potential value. This has a marked effect on what is asked for the finished stone.
The fact that there is no lower or upper limit on mark-up also has been mentioned. Competition for business leads to different levels of service and different asking prices. Sometimes the prices vary for no apparent reason. Other times, the price varies for obvious reasons combined with hidden reasons.
Not all white T-shirts sell for the same price. There are many reasons why. Many of the same apply to diamonds, too.
The fact that there is no lower or upper limit on mark-up also has been mentioned. Competition for business leads to different levels of service and different asking prices. Sometimes the prices vary for no apparent reason. Other times, the price varies for obvious reasons combined with hidden reasons.
Not all white T-shirts sell for the same price. There are many reasons why. Many of the same apply to diamonds, too.
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