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Why are most princess cuts GIA certified and not AGS?

spurnoff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
21
I've been searching online for princess cuts and I'm finding that the vast majority of Princess cuts are GIA certified when AGS are the only ones that grade the cut of a princess cut diamond. Sites like whiteflash seem to only provide AGS certification for their A Cut Above range from what I can see. Why is this as it's making my search for a well cut diamond somewhat difficult?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,546
1. Customers are more familiar with GIA than AGS.
2. Well-cut princess diamonds are rare. Many are cut to maximize the weight retention. Therefore, most are just MEH and glassy. There is no benefit for sellers to have poorly cut stones graded by AGS and have it documented on the report. It is better to hide such information.
3. AGS service may be more expensive???
 

diamondseeker2006

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Only top cut diamonds are sent to AGS because it is worth getting an ideal cut grade. Stones that won't make ideal cut wouldn't be sent there because there would be no benefit to get a grade lower than ideal. Only a small fraction of diamonds are sent to AGS, but they are generally among the top cut diamonds. There are great GIA graded stones, but as you said, you have to work harder to find them. I find AGS Ideal cut grading to be extremely helpful in identifying a great princess cut. I'd use those as visual references even if you decide to search through GIA graded diamonds.
 

spurnoff

Rough_Rock
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Jul 9, 2016
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21
Thanks for the replies. It seems you're shooting in the dark searching for a princess cut that are GIA rated. Is the cut score calculator from enchanted diamonds a good guide for GIA graded princess cuts https://enchanteddiamonds.com/cut-score-calculator ?

It seems these premium diamonds with AGS certification and Ideal scope, ASET are a bit out of my budget as my partner doesn't want to go below 1crt.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 28, 2014
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3,809
If you need help finding princess cuts, post a new thread with your budget and desired specs and people can help you on sites like James Allen and Enchanted that have pictures/videos choose a GIA certified diamond because they know what to look for. Those sites can sometimes also provide ideal scope images if the stone is in the US.

Another option would be to connect with Yekutiel at IDJ. He can source beautiful stones on budgets and has the imaging setup, too. Tell him you're a Pricescoper and that you want a knockout stone with great light return. You'd be in good hands!!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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No, Enchanted's cut scores are not helpful for anything but rounds. I would stick with James Allen to look at GIA stones. Once you narrow it down to the best 3 stones, you can request ASET images.
 

spurnoff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
21
diamondseeker2006|1468809931|4056564 said:
No, Enchanted's cut scores are not helpful for anything but rounds. I would stick with James Allen to look at GIA stones. Once you narrow it down to the best 3 stones, you can request ASET images.
Thanks Diamondseeker, I was not aware James Allen offered that service.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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spurnoff|1468814856|4056588 said:
diamondseeker2006|1468809931|4056564 said:
No, Enchanted's cut scores are not helpful for anything but rounds. I would stick with James Allen to look at GIA stones. Once you narrow it down to the best 3 stones, you can request ASET images.
Thanks Diamondseeker, I was not aware James Allen offered that service.
You're welcome! If the diamonds are located in certain locations (countries), they can't access the images. But a lot of their stones, they can. They limit it to three per customer, so it is always wise to post your prospects here and get some help narrowing them down before ordering the images.
 

kenny

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spurnoff|1468802920|4056531 said:
I've been searching online for princess cuts and I'm finding that the vast majority of Princess cuts are GIA certified when AGS are the only ones that grade the cut of a princess cut diamond. Sites like whiteflash seem to only provide AGS certification for their A Cut Above range from what I can see. Why is this as it's making my search for a well cut diamond somewhat difficult?
The reason most princess cuts are graded by GIA is they are not well cut, and the GIA reports (to the delight of sellers) keep this dirty little secret.
An AGS report would reveal it.

Now that you know this, shop only for those graded by AGS.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
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22,681
It may be easier to post your budget and specs you would like to meet, and let some PSers point out some well cut stones.
I'd be happy to look for you. Keep in mind that there are a few different looks with respect to princess cuts. The number
of chevrons on the pavilion dictates the size of the facets. More chevrons, smaller, but more flashes. Less chevrons, bigger
flashes. My preference is for 2 or 3 chevrons, and smaller, angled tables (not square) but each stone must be critiqued individually
and on it's own merit.

Edit ...James Allen does carry some AGS Princess cuts. They will not be vetted like WF's stones though.
 

Rockdiamond

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spurnoff|1468802920|4056531 said:
I've been searching online for princess cuts and I'm finding that the vast majority of Princess cuts are GIA certified when AGS are the only ones that grade the cut of a princess cut diamond. Sites like whiteflash seem to only provide AGS certification for their A Cut Above range from what I can see. Why is this as it's making my search for a well cut diamond somewhat difficult?
HI Spurnoff,
Great questions- oh and congrats on diamond shopping- fun!!

There's a lot of potential reasons why you won't find a lot of AGSL graded princess cuts.
For one thing, GIA is far more popular in the market, in general. GIA is more well known to far more consumers.
But another really important issue is the type of cut that is required to earn AGSL 0 cut grade. Generally smaller table, higher crown- which can be quite lovely.
If someone loves that design, the AGSL cut grade is a very reliable way to shop.
BUT- princess cuts have more potential variation than round diamonds, and there's other cut designs that are quite popular, and beautiful. Many of most popular princess cut designs won't grade to AGSL top cut grade.
Based on GIA popularity, and the fact that AGSL is known specifically for cut grades, if a cutter isn't going for AGSL 0 cut grade ( that's AGSL top cut grade) it makes no sense to use AGSL.

About any website offering a cut grade on fancy shaped diamonds- the website would have to make up their own cut grade- and in many cases, there's no science behind it.
This is a practice which goes against gemological norms- and in my opinion, against consumer education.
In many cases, sites offering cut grades on Fancy Shaped diamonds have never even seen the diamonds they are grading.

If you can look at both GIA, as well as AGSL graded stones, that would be ideal.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
There are well cut GIA princesses. I picked on for my aunt actually.

Diamond cutting houses want to make money. GIA is well known and very broadly traded.

If you work with a vendor that can provide an ASET image, there's no reason you can't get a GIA stone.
 
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