who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting?

[lucyruth]

Hi everyone,
I've never loved the vintage setting my diamond came in... I guess it's the baguettes and the square illusion head. I've always loved hexagonal and octagonal settings. I was all set to change it to something like a 6 prong solitaire, maybe a Mark Morrell kind of setting. But I stumbled across something on eBay and the seller said it would hold a 7mm. I don't have it in hand yet to tell for sure!

My questions are: Who should I consider sending it to in order to see if my stone will fit, and then, I'm REALLY nervous about having the stone reset and want someone who is comfortable and knowledgeable with these kinds of things. I guess the plate would need to be "drilled" out and then stone bead set? I've had so many disasters locally and just want it done well the first time, you know? So all recommendations welcome.

I'll attach pics of stone in current setting and vendor pics of the mount. Hopeful and excited! Hoping the setting is in decent condition for the age; they stated 1920s.

p.s. If you think there's a reason this setting won't work, please do tell. The seller has a return policy. He said the current hole will fit a 4mm round, and advertised the setting as holding up to a 6.5mm, but answered my query about a 7mm in the affirmative.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I'd ask the vendor for a picture of the setting with a mm measuring tool showing me the exact mm of that plate before going any farther. What the heck is that plate in there for? I have never seen anything like that!

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Here's the current setting:

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Oh shoot I should have done that. I went ahead and bought it figuring I could always return. They said the plate is in there because it is "new old stock" and has never been set? I figured the stone opened would be drilled to give the double halo look... but then I'm an optimist about these things lol!

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

That looks exactly like Dreamer's setting!

 

[kenny]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

What the heck is that plate in there for?
I have never seen anything like that!

+1
I'm curious too.

I was thinking the flat plate could be for a rose-cut stone since they have a flat bottom, but then what would that hole in the middle be for?

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

You are right! It does! I had bid on a hexagonal plat setting and lost it to someone at the last minute, so I kind of bought this on the rebound so to speak... And that makes me feel better because DreamerD's solitaire is just lovely! But this will not have quite the same impact size-wise. My stone is just over 7mm and much warmer to boot.

Kenny, I was told by a previous local jeweler that all jewelers put a new plate in a setting like this, and drill out to fit your particular stone?

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

The plate is actually pretty typical for that sort of setting when it has double milgrain and/or an airline ... if you check the photos I have on the fifth page of my refurbishing mess-up thread, you'll see what I mean. Actually, wait ... I'll just link directly:

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/refurb-gone-really-wrong-what-to-do-t185540-90.html

With these sorts of settings, you actually have more leeway than otherwise - just drill the plate to the diameter, and milgrain or engrave the edges if the stone is small, or loose the plate altogether if the stone is big and put the prongs in the outer edges of the octagon (like Dreamer's).

No experience with Adam at Old World Diamonds personally, but he has a stellar rep: likewise, SingleStone in LA. Where are you located, geographically?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Okay, never used antique setting, very nice! I love Dreamer's setting, too!

Still, you need to know the width of that plate to see if it is possible. They said 6.5mm max in the listing,so I would be wary. If this was a prong set ring, you'd have more leeway. But that setting was made to fit up to some max size.

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Ok that's exciting! I'm in nowhere, Georgia, unfortunately.

I'd be fine mailing it off.... if I can communicate what I want with someone who understands vintage settings! I def. want the inner halo (if there is one) millegrained.

OK, DreamerD's stone goes right to the edge of her bezel iirc... The seller is one who has measured before and told me no on other settings... so all I can do now is wait to check with my own eyes.

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Circe! Maybe the one you have is the one I missed out on on eBay?!? Wondering. I thought it was hex but maybe it was octagonal.... I deleted the listing from my watch list as I was so sick to have missed out lol!

Anyway, that's exactly what I'm thinking of, though I'm betting my stone will come to the edges. Nervous that it will hit right where the airline is and then I'll be out of luck without more extensive work.

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

If it does, I think you can have a jeweler take out the existing place and add a little metal circle right where the airline is ... it's a little more work, but it shouldn't be a huge challenge to somebody skilled enough to set it a stone in it as it is.

It's a *really* gorgeous setting. It was looking at Dreamer's that inspired me to hunt for that sort of thing. We're like extended family, sorta!

 

[IE_Princess]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I love the original setting and the new vintage one you found! Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

OMG that is IDENTICAL to my setting! I don't mean sort of similar.... I mean IDENTICAL! Mine does not have engraving all around the shank because it was resized, and in mine the entire center plate was removed to set the largest stone possible, and the area where the shank meets the basket is different than mine, but the fret work on the shank and the patterning on the shank is the same! Wow, that is really cool.

I would send it and my stone to Single Stone even though it will cost more. You need a really good craftsperson who can set the stone with nice little pointy prongs or, if the double bezel is needed then super tiny bead set prongs. PLease please please do not let a random local jeweler touch it!

I can't believe you got that. I'm not going to lie -- and I am so unbiased -- but this setting is simple amazing. You will LOVE it.

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Wow! I am laughing now! How wild, it really IS the same setting! Bizarre! But that thrills me as I loved your setting and circe's too.

Now I am pumped. I'll call the venders y'all recommended, thanks! No worries on someone local messing with it. I've learned my lessons the hard way there.

Dreamer, do you have any idea who made your setting? I'm assuming it's die-struck by the age and construction? Fortunately my new one is supposed to be my ring size, rather fortuitously. I'm curious if the bezels are the same size - they must be!

Thanks everyone for the comments. Now just waiting on the setting. Should arrive this week. Hoping I can sell the original one for a little bit - I kinda splurged (for me!) on the new one. That should help a little with the DH.

And I self consciously have to add that my diamond is NEVER as dark irl as in that photo I took - don't know what's up with all the dark facets in my pic. It's really a bright, bright stone! I just can't seem to take a good photo.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I'm not sure what you mean asking if the bezels are the same size? My diamond is 8mm and the outer bezel measures 8.7mm, so my mount will be likely to have different proportions than yours will have if your mount is made for a diamond around 7mm. For example, I can see that the gallery struts are shorter on yours, which would make sense of the diamond is smaller and set lower. I will be curious to see if yours has the little curly cues under the shoulders like mine has, too. Those are a very delicate elements that could only have been added by hand. Yours also appears to have a wider band at the bottom of the basket and it has engraving, whereas mine is thinner and without engraving. I can't wait to see better photos!

I don't know who made my ring. I have a local jeweler who hand forges their pieces, and they examined my ring and told me it was hand made and an exquisite example of craftsmanship from that era. It was pretty cool to learn about it. They told me each of the six sides of the bezel that form the basket and have fret work would have been cut with a little saw by hand and then soldered together, and the shank made separately and soldered onto the head. Originally I too thought it was die struck, but they say it was hand made. You can see the joins on my ring where the various components were soldered together if you look very closely, especially on the underside. I was told that the solder often wares away at a different rate than the metal, meaning the joins can be seen over time.

Please post a lot of photos when you get it! It is possible our rings were made by the same company, though I would not think there were companies hand making mounts en mass? But I don't really know how these things work. Its also possible that this is a common design motif from the time. Just as today there are many companies with a "harry winston style" halo, years ago there may have been many artisans making octagonal bezels with this type of fret pattern and engraving.

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I didn't notice the height difference but I see it now. Can't wait to compare when I get it in person. Will absolutely post pics! Thanks for the info on the history of yours. Curious if Circe's is constructed similarly too. So I'm thinking if mine was made for a 6.5 I might have to go right to the outer bezel as well. I'll measure and photograph!

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

LucyRuth, I totally had yours on my watch-list - great minds think alike!

The gallery on mine isn't as sharply geometrical as yours and Dreamer's - I think the process for mine was probably something more like the one depicted on Hugo Kohl's blog, like so: http://www.hugokohl.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=crafted

There's a definite family resemblance between a lot of rings from this period - once you start seeing it, it's impossible to unsee. The first time I saw key-pattern filigree, I thought, "How unusual!" Now I feel like I see it everywhere. I'd bet there were sample/pattern books, maybe, though I'd need to research to find out. It's times like this I wish LGK still posted - I remember her mentioning having old magazines from the 20s and 30s that had ads for a lot of these where you could "customize" certain elements.

ETA: I just want to draw attention to one section from Hugo's blog, where he says:

In a complicated piece there can be as many as many as seven different stamped pieces...necessitating 30+ stampings plus assembly to complete a single ring.

Given the similarity between your two rings, to me it would either imply that they were constructed from such stampings, possibly by the same company, or possibly from component parts sold to many companies ... or that they were made by the same craftsman or house. Either way, very exciting!

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

This is blowing my mind. So cool! Try to take pics the same way Dreamer did lucyruth, that way it will be apples to apples. Someday I want to see a pic with both of your hands. Or rings together, Super Friends-style!

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

This is blowing my mind. So cool! Try to take pics the same way Dreamer did lucyruth, that way it will be apples to apples. Someday I want to see a pic with both of your hands. Or rings together, Super Friends-style!

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Thanks for that link! Really interesting! So that is die-struck? Still learning but it sounds like it. I'm going to book mark and read again. Something I've noticed on some of these 1920s era rings is a join or seam down the whole length of the shank.

Check the side view of this ring: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400479726684?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The first time I saw this kind of thing I thought it was wear or a defect, but now I notice it on a lot of these rings. Looks like they joined the halves the whole way around?

Loving all these rings btw! I don't know what the key pattern is. Will have to look at the rings again.

Backwards, my photo skills are soooo bad lol! But I promise to take lots of pics so we can compare! That'll be fun!

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Yes, exactly right! There's also the Van Craeynest approach, where they seem to stamp the ring all in one piece. I'm guessing this is the type that's easier to adapt to different ring sizes, head sizes, etc., so it would have been more economical in the past.

ETA Again: Also, I just love this guy's blog in general. Next time I want a vintage-inspired thing, I think I'll need to place an order with him. Those bracelets are really cool!

http://www.hugokohl.com/blog/

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I think my ring was die struck and then assembled like the link said, Circe. I just compared the two faces of the gallery and they share the same asymmetry in one of the panels! So, looking at one face, the three panels are slightly different from one another. But comparing the two faces, the faces are identical! So I think our rings, ruby, were probably made by the same company after all Or as Circe said, maybe the basket parts were sold by a larger company and the finishing done by different independent jewelers -- that would explain all the subtle differences.

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Well, a small hiccup. Received the wrong ring. Waiting on seller's response. Hopefully he still has mine! Panic setting in!

 

[Bellelgw]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Both settings are lovely! Your stone will look amazing in the new one. Please give me first dibs on your old setting if you decide to sell!

 

[GemFever]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Well, a small hiccup. Received the wrong ring. Waiting on seller's response. Hopefully he still has mine! Panic setting in!

Yikes!! Good luck! What does the wrong ring look like? (just curious )

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Well, a small hiccup. Received the wrong ring. Waiting on seller's response. Hopefully he still has mine! Panic setting in!

Yikes!! Good luck! What does the wrong ring look like? (just curious )

Okay, this cracks me up, because I was about to type more or less the same thing (and verbatim on the "Yikes!") - great minds think alike.

LR, has the seller replied with comforting words yet?

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Getting a little nervous here as I've had no response from the seller! I've sent them three eBay messages, and am trying not to be a pest, but I sure hope they'll acknowledge me soon!

I'm on a tablet so can't post pics, but they sent me this ring:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-1920s-NOS-Platinum-Filigree-1ct-Ring-Setting-Mounting-RARE-RARE-RARE-/400479726684?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item5d3e73ac5c

I'd think they'd answer soon... They are still listing items to sell... Hmm.

And if I do get through this whole process, I will be selling the original setting!

 

[Circe]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

I've dealt with that guy in the past ... he was good about a thing I needed to return, but he did take a while to reply. Since that listing is still up, I'll bet he still has yours - so though it'll take longer, you should still get it. Probably just grabbed the wrong octagonal setting!

 

[lucyruth]

Re: who to ask about antique reset? OEC into vintage setting

Yay, just heard from him and all okay! Just a little delay now with all the shipping back and forth. He just grabbed the wrong setting. So, hoping it'll be in my hands in another week and when he told me it would hold a 7mm he was measuring the right one...