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Who pays for Sarin analysis and/or B-scope testing?

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Smarti5051

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
8
If you are a consumer working with an on-line jeweler to find three perfect stones for an e-ring, and you have a budget of $20K, who generally pays to get a Sarin analysis and/or B-scope test done, the consumer or the vendor? I intend to buy all three stones from the same vendor, and when I asked for this information, the vendor indicated it could be obtained, but that I would have to pay the cost for the round-trip insured shipping for each stone I am interested in, as well as the cost of the reports. On one level I could see how that would be fair, but it sure serves as a disincentive to have enough stones checked to make sure that the stones I end up with are well-cut and perform well. The vendor indicated that I would have to pay for each stone I rejected, but that there would be no additional cost for the stones I ultimately wanted.

I am certainly cost conscious. However, the vendor I am going with does not have the cheapest prices on the block, but does pride itself on being service oriented and seems to be universally respected on the boards I have read. I was sort of hoping to not have to pay extra money to get this information, but if that is pretty standard in the industry, than I guess I will do it.

Finally, as an aside, what percentage of "well cut" princess diamonds receive high/very high results on a B-scope analysis? The vendor indicated that the goal would be to select good diamonds to test, so the likelihood of rejects would be small. What percentage of diamonds perform well on these types of tests. For a vendor that knows what to look for, is the good performer rate 50%? 25%? 10%?

Your thoughts on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
 

greengator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
23
Have you tried nice ice (www.niceice.com) or www.goodoldgold.com?
You can see Sarin and B-scope report for every single diamond they have in stock and you don't have to pay a thing for them, isn't that great?
-- Larry
 

homer_j

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2003
Messages
234
It doesn't make sense to me that the consumer should pay for these analyses before buying a diamond. If you don't buy it, does the jeweler get to keep the reports. He shouldn't, you paid for them. But what good are they to you if you don't own the stone. So, the solution. Find someone who is willing to provide this service. There are LOTS of diamonds out there, don't get too hung up on one where it costs you too much money and trouble. Besides, if you go with some of the guys mentioned above you will likely save THOUSANDS of dollars for a better diamond.
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792

----------------
On 6/2/2003 9:46:55 PM greengator wrote:
Have you tried nice ice (www.niceice.com) or www.goodoldgold.com?
You can see Sarin and B-scope report for every single diamond they have in stock and you don't have to pay a thing for them, isn't that great?
-- Larry----------------
Thanks Larry, but a little clarification is necessary... While we provide OGI Mega Scope computerized proportions analysis for the diamonds that we sell, we actually do not offer Brilliance Scope results. For those who aren't familiar with why, please refer to the PS thread \"Impartial Brilliance Scope Results\" wherein we recommend sending the diamonds to an independent GIA Graduate Gemologist like Bill Lieberman or even GemEx themselves for scanning. If you want an impartial Brilliance Scope scan for the diamonds you are considering Smarti, then we recomend doing just that... But as for the Sarin / OGI proportions analysis, that should be provided by the seller free of charge prior to doing so, so that you can determine whether the diamond even has the potential to perform well...
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
As one who frequently performs this service let me give my .02c.

There are many many people who do not want to purchase (especially when they've been spoiled with the info) and who want to see B'scope, Sarin, microscope pics, LightScope, etc. on the diamonds they're going to consider. There are 2 options that person has. They can either ...

a. Find an appraiser, pay round trip shipping and appraisal fees for each stone, pick the ones he likes best and purchase. This can run into quite a bit of money especially if the person they are buying from is not familiar with what specs work and what doesn't within the realm of princess cuts. Having worked with princess cuts and performing optical analysis I know how to cut my odds by the numbers but of course nothing is guaranteed until I test it as the numbers aren't always reliable and while I respect Dave's AGA chart, that has nothing to do with optical analysis (for the most part).

b. You can work with a vendor who'll do the analysis for you but you have to realize that if a vendor is going to provide these services for you and you are looking at stones up to 20k ... to call in 5 stones to test and pay round trip shipping on this amount of money IS NOT CHEAP. Think about this for a moment and put yourself into the vendors shoes for a second. If insured shipping round trip on 20k worth of diamonds cost around $100-$200 a pop ... and he's gotta call in around 5 stones to find the right one ... that can be $500 - $1000 in shipping expenses (round trip). And what if you decide to reneg and pull out of the deal? People are all too willing to spend anothers' money and then not purchase with them. In the past we used to call these in for free for our clients (and up to a point we still do) but we've had people all too willing to have me (at my own expense) spend ridiculous money and time analyzing diamonds for them only to pull out. Guess who loses? It's happened to me once too often and after you've called in 3-5 3ct diamonds at 30-40k a clip ... you can see how that turns out to be a losing deal real fast. In the long run however you will be guaranteed very fine stones (the best on the market) and you'll also save alot by not having to pay an appraiser for each and every stone (since you'd be only covering the shipping). When we're doing searches on stones we now offer our clients 2 options. A brokers price (one that involves the same level of service that most Internet diamonds brokers sell for ... ie. fax of a GIA and/or Sarin report *if* the vendor has one) OR a full service price which involves calling the diamond in and running our battery of tests on it. THOSE are the diamonds we'll back with our full policies as well as all our services.

If you want to base your purchasing decision on the most and best info provided and you're working with a pro who's familiar with the best kind of goods they'll be able to narrow down the searches and save you a lot of money finding the right stone. Just so you know, the *best* kind of princess cuts, the ones that are optical beauties represent much less than 10% of the princess cuts on the market. I'd say it's more around 1-3% depending upon what you're looking for. It is not unfair if the vendor asks you to help with the shipping expenses if you are serious about finding the right kind of goods.

Peace,
Rhino
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
Rhino brings up an interesting point that we're glad to see mentioned... The cost involved with bringing diamonds in for complete evaluation ultimately gets passed on to the consumer... Those of us who provide detailed information on the diamonds that we sell incur a variety of costs to be able to do so... Most of us have at least $100K in gemological equipment, plus the normal myriad of computers (
required to run an efficient office and as Jonathan has pointed out, the mere cost of shipping the diamonds in for evaluation is quite high... If your primary focus is cost, then buy from one of the internet vendors who merely lists diamonds for sale and then has those diamonds drop shipped to their customers direct from their supplier... But if your focus is quality, then ask one of the more quality concious diamond dealers to source the diamond on your behalf and base your decision on their in-depth evaluation of the diamond. While the incentive for many people buying a diamond on-line is because of lower prices, we like to think that most of our customers are buying from us and our competitors (GOG, ACA, WF, SC) because it is difficult to find the quality we sell in a lot of venues... Those who buy diamonds from the internet vendors who sell price (they never see the diamonds that they sell) usually buy based on price alone and we suspect that the money they "save" actually costs them more than they think they have saved in the long run... You might pay a little more by buying your diamond from a company like ours or GOG, ACA, WF and SC initially, but the service and integrity that comes along with your purchase will be worth it in the long run. All of us stand behind our product and have from the inception of our businesses... If the diamonds you are considering are listed by more than one PS vendor, then the odds are that any one of us can source the same diamond for you and provide you with more detailed information than you're getting now... Flip a coin and pick one of us, if you need the BS evaluation then Jonathan should probably be your first choice because he has a BS unit on the premises, but expect to pay a little more for the service he is providing... The expense of having the BS unit on the premises is just under a thousand dollars per month and he has to pay about $45 for each scan! And that doesn't account for the 1 to 2 hours that he is going to spend evaluating each of those stones for you or the cost of having them shipped in...
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Smart;

Excellent points by both Todd/Robin @Niceice
and Jonathan. Having the BrillianceScope and other
gemological equipment/photo-lab on premises is very expensive to own/run and time-consuming.
Spending hours on the phone with clients and via e-mails
discussing diamonds we actually have on hand
affords you a level of service and expertise that
simply cannot be matched by internet vendors that
merely pick up the phone and have their supplier drop-ship directly to you.
Don't get me wrong; we're all very happy to provide
this level of service, but it's not unreasonable to
ask clients evaluating several diamonds to show
a modicum of committment by helping to defray
a very small portion of these expenses. All the more so
when you're working with a vendor who does not have this equipment and must rely on one of us to supply the
BrillianceScope data.
I'm sure you'll agree that with your budget of 20k,
shelling out a small amount in shipping is a worthwhile investment for your peace of mind.

Insofar as Princess Cuts are concerned, Jonathan
is correct. Finding Princess Cuts on the market that
maximize on light output and display minimal light leakage
is akin to finding the proverbial needle...
"Numbers" with this shape might serve you as a very
general guide but cannot give you an accurate
depiction of the stones' performance. The fact is
that two Princess with very similar specs may very
well show significant differences on light
performance.

Wish you the best of luck in your search.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 
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