Who/How do diamonds get their 4 C grades?

[John Ksionska]

Carat is a given, but what about Cut, Clarity, and Color?

When you look at a GIA cert form, how did a diamond get for example a "I VS2 excellent" grade compared to and "F SI1 excellent" grade? Is it just the people at GIA that determined that so wholesalers can price it accordingly?

Also when a diamond is appraised is it normal to get different grades?

For example I recently purchased a diamond with the help of ID Jewerly (with lots of help here!!!), the stone was from James Allen GIA cert with a 1.03 I VS2 Excellent Ideal Hearts and Arrows (I know this is JA thing) and the apprasial said F/G SI1

Thanks in advance!!! I should have the ring tomorrow and will be posting lots of update pics from my other forms where everyone was very helpful.

 

[tyty333]

How did you get the appraisal? Did you receive the stone lose and take it to an independent appraiser?

Or did someone with ID Jewelry appraise it?

Info on GIA grading
http://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/grading-diamond-4cs/

 

[John Ksionska]

Yekuiel sent it over with my shipping information from ID Jewerly

I am going to take it to an independent as well. I am guessing like buying a house, appraisals are often much higher than paid price. Is that a correct assumption? I figured that that Clarity and Color would be within 1 grade of GIA (up or down) on most appraisals.

Thank you for the GIA information, that answers my question. I understood the grading scale but was curious on how it actually happens. I know it is subject to the person but still good to know.

 

[WinkHPD]

When I was a student at GIA in 1975 the GIA labs (there were only two then, LA and NY) were still issuing split color and clarity grades when stones were on the border line. Along came the investment craze in the late seventies and the boiler room vendors could not handle the lack of a single grade as one grade could mean thousands of dollars price difference in diamonds of a carat or more.

By February of 1980 a one carat D-IF was sold between dealers in the Diamond Dealer's Club in New York for $65,000 per carat. Then the Feds changed the margin rules to stop the Hunt brothers from taking over the silver market, causing a crash from over $50 per ounce to (I can not remember the exact number) around ten dollars an ounce with the market pegged limit down for several days until it got there. Millions of small investors who thought they had it made lost their homes. I had one investor who wanted to buy bullion curse me out when I refused to sell him silver at $35 per ounce. He came back a couple of days later when it was at $50 per ounce and told me he was going to sue me for lost profits. Less than a week later he came back into the store and apologized and thanked me for saving him a lot of money.

Diamonds crashed along with the metals. By May I remember that a one carat D-IF was selling for about $9,000 per carat.

Sorry, babbling again. We do not know enough about who did your appraisal and his/her qualifications to comment on his use of the split F/G grade.

I am curious why you say the diamond was from James Allen when you purchased it from another vendor?

Wink

 

[John Ksionska]

When I was a student at GIA in 1975 the GIA labs (there were only two then, LA and NY) were still issuing split color and clarity grades when stones were on the border line. Along came the investment craze in the late seventies and the boiler room vendors could not handle the lack of a single grade as one grade could mean thousands of dollars price difference in diamonds of a carat or more.

By February of 1980 a one carat D-IF was sold between dealers in the Diamond Dealer's Club in New York for $65,000 per carat. Then the Feds changed the margin rules to stop the Hunt brothers from taking over the silver market, causing a crash from over $50 per ounce to (I can not remember the exact number) around ten dollars an ounce with the market pegged limit down for several days until it got there. Millions of small investors who thought they had it made lost their homes. I had one investor who wanted to buy bullion curse me out when I refused to sell him silver at $35 per ounce. He came back a couple of days later when it was at $50 per ounce and told me he was going to sue me for lost profits. Less than a week later he came back into the store and apologized and thanked me for saving him a lot of money.

Diamonds crashed along with the metals. By May I remember that a one carat D-IF was selling for about $9,000 per carat.

Sorry, babbling again. We do not know enough about who did your appraisal and his/her qualifications to comment on his use of the split F/G grade.

I am curious why you say the diamond was from James Allen when you purchased it from another vendor?

Wink

Wow thats a very interesting story, thank you for sharing. Feel Free to babble away haha

So I called ID and spoke with Yekutiel about my budget and what I wanted. He said he had a few stones that matched and sent me a link to a JA stone that he thought was a great fit. After he got the stone in hand and inspected it, that was the winner (after much back and forth of course) That is why I say I went through ID but got a JA stone, make sense?

As for the appraisal sent over:
States at the top, all the normal legal jargon then here is what it says in the description:

"14KT White Gold Round Cut Diamond
Engagement Ring
Weight 1.03ct
Colorless "I"
Clarity Grade "VS2"
GIA # 2185136734
Halo Diamond Pave 0.55ctw
Gabriel & Co # ER7261W44JJ
Color "F/G" Clarity "SI"
Handmade Setting"

At the bottom:

"Signed: Tami Davidov GIA"

Does that help, if not I can take a screen shot and upload the appraisal form I was given.

Thanks!

 

[WinkHPD]

As a member of the trade, it would not be appropriate for me to discuss your actual diamond or the appraiser. Perhaps this information you have provided will allow someone else to comment.

The diamond may have been listed on JA, but it is highly likely that it was never in their possession. It may well have been with the original cutter until it was requested to be sent to ID. This is very common today with virtual inventory. You can often find the same diamond listed all over the place for an amazing variety of prices.

Wink

 

[tyty333]

The F/G SI clarity is for the stones in the setting not your center stone which is correctly stated as I/VS2 a long with the GIA report number.

 

[John Ksionska]

The F/G SI clarity is for the stones in the setting not your center stone which is correctly stated as I/VS2 a long with the GIA report number.

Wow now that you mention it, that makes so much sense because its right below the setting. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[tyty333]

Your welcome!

Post pics when you get it!

 

[John Ksionska]

As a member of the trade, it would not be appropriate for me to discuss your actual diamond or the appraiser. Perhaps this information you have provided will allow someone else to comment.

The diamond may have been listed on JA, but it is highly likely that it was never in their possession. It may well have been with the original cutter until it was requested to be sent to ID. This is very common today with virtual inventory. You can often find the same diamond listed all over the place for an amazing variety of prices.

Wink

Completely understand, quick question regarding appraisals. I am 100% confident in the stone I purchased and the man I dealt with so getting it reappraised won't be necessary. However I was curious if diamond appraisals are like home appraisals in the sense that they are always quite higher than what was paid or what the person thinks it would sell for. Is this accurate or with diamonds do you get a real feel for what it would truly be worth in an appraisal?

I saw your comments on another thread about your experience and going by your comment of "being a member of the trade" this is the reason I ask.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[denverappraiser]

Why do you want an appraisal?

The usual primary purpose of an insurance type appraisal on newly purchased things is to serve as the purchase order for the replacement in the case of a loss. It’s the specs like the weights, counts, dimensions, grades, sizes, karats, photographs, and so on that will be used to replace the piece if needed. Unless there’s more that you didn’t include, this document is missing several important details.

It also serves as a quality control step for buyers. It’s a disinterested set of eyes to confirm that things are set straight, set securely, undamaged, and that the mounting is defect free and properly done. Again, this document doesn’t seem to serve this purpose.

Lastly it provides a funding mechanism for the above replacement. That’s the value conclusion. This should be a number where the company can replace with ‘like kind and quality’, or words to that effect, in the case of a loss. Yes, appraisers routinely inflate this although there’s certainly no rule and it’s not really doing you any favors. This is a slightly unusual definition of value and it may or may not be what you mean by 'truly worth'. You've compared to home appraisals and I point out that this is NOT the definition of value used there, nor are they likely using what you would call 'true worth' either.

 

[WinkHPD]

Denver Appraiser gives you good information.

I have been constantly informed by appraisal organizations that I should not appraise the items that I sell as it is a built in conflict of interest. I disagree with them on this, as I know better than anyone else what it will cost to replace a Crafted by Infinity Diamond and to make the mounting that we put it in, assuming of course that we also made the mounting.

Thus, I issue a Valuation for Insurance Purposes with the jewelry that we sell. I agree completely with Denver Appraiser that an inflated valuation is no favor to you. I will value your item at what we valued it for when we sold it and what we would be willing to sell it for, either to you or the insurance company in the future.

The one rare exception to this policy is when we are selling an item that we might be selling below a current valuation, such as an estate piece that we are selling on consignment for less than we could make a similar piece for. In those cases we will issue a higher valuation, and in the limiting conditions we will add a paragraph as to why this piece is being valued at more than we sold it for.

In doing this, we serve the owner and also for possible future replacement or sale as all parties are properly informed as to the reason why this item is being valued for more than it was sold for.

As Denver Appraiser states, an appraisal should contain information, lots of information so that all parties relying on the appraisal have what they need to make decisions. In my opinion, good photos are an important piece of information that should also be in every appraisal.

Wink