Whiteflash
- Thread starter pyramid
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2011
- Messages
- 10,051
sarahb|1378155386|3513667 said:
As I posted in your the previous thread... it's most likely due to an input error in original pricing. Every now and then it happens, and they will fix it ASAP. Since it's staying that price, I would imagine that would be the reason. It would be highly unlikely that the price would jump like that for any other reason.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
- Messages
- 58,547
Obviously you need to email or call to ask this question. I feel sure they aren't going to comment on pricing on a particular stone here.
I just posted this on the other thread, but that stone is priced quite high. If you want to buy it, I would suggest asking if the price is correct and are they willing to negotiate. It appears that many H&A stones can run 10-20% higher than GIA Excellent stones from the few I looked at. That stone's price change could be the error instead of the original price. A GIA XXX the same size is listed at $50k, so I think the price of the ACA must be incorrect.
I just posted this on the other thread, but that stone is priced quite high. If you want to buy it, I would suggest asking if the price is correct and are they willing to negotiate. It appears that many H&A stones can run 10-20% higher than GIA Excellent stones from the few I looked at. That stone's price change could be the error instead of the original price. A GIA XXX the same size is listed at $50k, so I think the price of the ACA must be incorrect.
No I am not buying.
I have found video of this diamond on you tube from 11 July 2011 and it was $72,117 then so seems it has been an error when it was lower a few months ago or it was lowered for some reason but is now back up to around the price it was in 2011.
I have found video of this diamond on you tube from 11 July 2011 and it was $72,117 then so seems it has been an error when it was lower a few months ago or it was lowered for some reason but is now back up to around the price it was in 2011.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
- Messages
- 58,547
Prices went up a LOT in 2011. Some prices have softened since then. It is possible the price was lowered and then raised again on purpose. Diamond prices do fluctuate over time.
Yes I wondered about the price increases, as the diamond went up just as the price increase was mentioned
on Rockytalk on that chart but it was something like a 1 increase so I knew that could not be it. Unless they have only
updated from a previous increase or maybe the increase takes effect right away I don't know.
on Rockytalk on that chart but it was something like a 1 increase so I knew that could not be it. Unless they have only
updated from a previous increase or maybe the increase takes effect right away I don't know.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,763
Hi All,
Price changes are naturally of interest to this community. And dramatic ones, such as the case in this thread, catch a lot of attention and generate questions. So, let me explain how this can come about.
The diamond referenced is this one:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2681950.htm
The diamond market has been unusually volatile for the past several years, undergoing significant movements both up and down. With hundreds of diamonds in stock it can be quite a chore to keep everything priced logically and in line with current market.
It’s not really possible to know with absolute certainty where the market is at any given time, because price increases (and decreases) affect different sizes/colors/clarities in different ways. And exceptional makes are even harder to get precise indicators on.
This particular diamond is quite rare. The combination of its size and quality and the fact that it is an AGS triple ideal make it a diamond that is in very short supply in the market. The fact that it meets the additional criteria for A CUT ABOVE® makes it that much rarer.
Our core day-to-day business revolves around diamonds in the .70-1.25ct range G-J VS-Si1 range. We typically do not have to re-price those diamonds very often as they move through our pipeline at a pretty good clip. But diamonds like the one discussed here can sometimes be in stock for longer periods during which market movements necessitate price adjustments.
In this case the diamond was originally priced at $78,464 in (2011). It was subsequently repriced several times in 2012 going as low as $62,729. This May it was repriced to current market price. Depending on much the market is moving and how often re-pricing is done, the incremental differences can be small (closely following the market) or large (major correction). It seems that the last adjustment was rather large as a result of not have been repriced for a while.
Rational pricing for an ongoing business must be based upon replacement cost. You cannot sell at prices higher than the current market will allow, and if you sell at prices based upon cost at a low market, you will not be able to replace the diamond when it sells with enough left over to pay the overheads. Sometimes the market will not even allow you to break even. In fact, if the diamond had sold at its low, we would have lost several thousand dollars. It is a constant squeeze and balancing act. And it ain’t perfect!
So in this case our current selling price is about 7% lower than when it originally came into inventory and about 17% higher than at its low.
I hope this helps shed a little light on that imperfect part of the business that drives merchants a little crazy, and presents opportunities for consumers to lock in some especially good prices from time to time.
Price changes are naturally of interest to this community. And dramatic ones, such as the case in this thread, catch a lot of attention and generate questions. So, let me explain how this can come about.
The diamond referenced is this one:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2681950.htm
The diamond market has been unusually volatile for the past several years, undergoing significant movements both up and down. With hundreds of diamonds in stock it can be quite a chore to keep everything priced logically and in line with current market.
It’s not really possible to know with absolute certainty where the market is at any given time, because price increases (and decreases) affect different sizes/colors/clarities in different ways. And exceptional makes are even harder to get precise indicators on.
This particular diamond is quite rare. The combination of its size and quality and the fact that it is an AGS triple ideal make it a diamond that is in very short supply in the market. The fact that it meets the additional criteria for A CUT ABOVE® makes it that much rarer.
Our core day-to-day business revolves around diamonds in the .70-1.25ct range G-J VS-Si1 range. We typically do not have to re-price those diamonds very often as they move through our pipeline at a pretty good clip. But diamonds like the one discussed here can sometimes be in stock for longer periods during which market movements necessitate price adjustments.
In this case the diamond was originally priced at $78,464 in (2011). It was subsequently repriced several times in 2012 going as low as $62,729. This May it was repriced to current market price. Depending on much the market is moving and how often re-pricing is done, the incremental differences can be small (closely following the market) or large (major correction). It seems that the last adjustment was rather large as a result of not have been repriced for a while.
Rational pricing for an ongoing business must be based upon replacement cost. You cannot sell at prices higher than the current market will allow, and if you sell at prices based upon cost at a low market, you will not be able to replace the diamond when it sells with enough left over to pay the overheads. Sometimes the market will not even allow you to break even. In fact, if the diamond had sold at its low, we would have lost several thousand dollars. It is a constant squeeze and balancing act. And it ain’t perfect!
So in this case our current selling price is about 7% lower than when it originally came into inventory and about 17% higher than at its low.
I hope this helps shed a little light on that imperfect part of the business that drives merchants a little crazy, and presents opportunities for consumers to lock in some especially good prices from time to time.
Thank you Bryan for a very full explanation of this. Can you say why this diamond also very high and from 2011
did not go up in value by as much, I think it was only increased by 1 or 2 thousand dollars?
Does the increase go on a specific set combination of color clarity size by an exact percentage, e.g. F VVS1 2.00 is different from E IF 2 carat or only F Color is increased by this amount and IF is increased by another amount or does it depend on your inventory what
you need to increase it to as you said in your final paragraphs?
did not go up in value by as much, I think it was only increased by 1 or 2 thousand dollars?
Does the increase go on a specific set combination of color clarity size by an exact percentage, e.g. F VVS1 2.00 is different from E IF 2 carat or only F Color is increased by this amount and IF is increased by another amount or does it depend on your inventory what
you need to increase it to as you said in your final paragraphs?
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,763
Yes Pyramid, all those things factor into establishing a selling price. Cost, competition, current demand among your target audience, market movements in specific sizes and qualities, and your own inventory levels and cash flow needs. It's a little like being in the kitchen making soup and tasting and adjusting along the way!
It is very important to get the pricing right, so it's best to keep stirring and not walk away from the stove for very long. Because diamonds are so specifically graded on so many levels, consumers expect pricing to be logical. The one that is a grade better color should be more, the one that is .02ct less should be slightly lower. If logic is lacking in the pricing structure it makes it difficult for consumers to make decisions with confidence.
It is quite challenging for us as we have production agreements with our suppliers and we have new stones coming off the wheel and into our inventory on continual basis. Costs are often different from shipment to shipment for the same qualities as the market moves, creating potential dissonance in pricing vis a vis current stock. We don't like to change prices unless we have to, and sometimes we don't do it in as timely a fashion as we should. It is to some extent self-correcting in that underpriced diamonds tend to dissappear from the soup on their own!
Off topic, I remember early in my gemology training the classic diamond crystal (octohedron) being described as two pyramids cemented together at their base.
It is very important to get the pricing right, so it's best to keep stirring and not walk away from the stove for very long. Because diamonds are so specifically graded on so many levels, consumers expect pricing to be logical. The one that is a grade better color should be more, the one that is .02ct less should be slightly lower. If logic is lacking in the pricing structure it makes it difficult for consumers to make decisions with confidence.
It is quite challenging for us as we have production agreements with our suppliers and we have new stones coming off the wheel and into our inventory on continual basis. Costs are often different from shipment to shipment for the same qualities as the market moves, creating potential dissonance in pricing vis a vis current stock. We don't like to change prices unless we have to, and sometimes we don't do it in as timely a fashion as we should. It is to some extent self-correcting in that underpriced diamonds tend to dissappear from the soup on their own!
Off topic, I remember early in my gemology training the classic diamond crystal (octohedron) being described as two pyramids cemented together at their base.
Thank you Bryan. Yes that is why I chose the name Pyramid, think I read it on the internet that a diamond shape was like two
pyramids.
I bought the 2.565 E VS1 A cut above from Whiteflash in May this year (my initials are JH), is it possible to get the price details in the same way you wrote on the stone above i.e. what price it was when first listed etc and how it has gone up and down over the time
by percentage. Are you able to add anything from records too about the feather inclusion or anything on the diamond.
pyramids.
I bought the 2.565 E VS1 A cut above from Whiteflash in May this year (my initials are JH), is it possible to get the price details in the same way you wrote on the stone above i.e. what price it was when first listed etc and how it has gone up and down over the time
by percentage. Are you able to add anything from records too about the feather inclusion or anything on the diamond.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,763
Wesli, you are right- we don't know what the future holds for prices, but we feel we have entered a period of relative price stability. At least compared to the last several years! I would say if you are in the market today, you should act according to your present desires and not predicate your decision on prices going up or down.
Pyramid, regarding info about the diamond you purchased, please contact your Whiteflash diamond consultant. He or she will be able to provide any information that might be available.
Pyramid, regarding info about the diamond you purchased, please contact your Whiteflash diamond consultant. He or she will be able to provide any information that might be available.
Did You Miss the April 2024 Jewels of the Weeks?
Did You Miss the April 2024 Jewels of the Weeks? - 04/26
Did You Miss The Throwback Thursdays For April 2024?
Did You Miss The Throwback Thursdays For April 2024? - 04/25
300x240.png)