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Whiteflash New Line

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pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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As it has been said that Brian Gavin ''may not'' prefer their New Line ACA to the Classic ACA why has he not reverted to all classic cutting style. He has charge of how the hearts look to his specification so is this not as big a deal to him. It has been said the cutter will strive for a top light performance grade from the lab but the Classic style gets that anyway, is there different degrees of light performance which is communicated back to the manufacurers although the lab report is a zero? I mean do thiey have something like 0, or 0+1, 0+2.

I have read previously all the topics about this, so this is not a thread to get back to there, it is only a question about why the boss if he does not like the New Line is carrying on cutting them.
 
It looks like he has, I havent seen a new line come up here in months.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 5:39:57 AM
Author:Pyramid
I have read previously all the topics about this, so this is not a thread to get back to there, it is only a question about why the boss if he does not like the New Line is carrying on cutting them.
Click to expand...
If you''ve really read everything on it, you wouldn''t have to ask.
2.gif


Just because he may prefer one over the other does not mean he doesn''t find both beautiful. And he is not the one buying them, the public is. Some prefer one over the other, kind of like fine wines. So, he offers both.

I have seen a few, but not a lot lately.
 
What are they like?
 
I see a slight difference in the star facets by the table and the upper halves...., the star facets are a bit bigger and shallower?
 
I have only seen them online and I don't have a preference for more fire. I do see a huge difference in them to my eyes though. I think I actually prefer the New Line because to me I see the edge of the diamond much more flatter and rounder. I wonder what others who Whiteflash have said have seen them and personally prefer them say they like about them. To me looking at the online pictures the New Line reminds me of a flat piece of paper and the Classic reminds me of a crumpled piece of paper because although I see it as round it seems to tip back towards the pavillion a bit more. I love them both but just wondered if Brian Galvin is so precise about the hearts pattern why he is not about the two different styles of cut.

The first stone I saw and thought wow was Sunkist's diamond, I remember thinking it looked so round and then I noticed the same thing with Mara's diamond, although I did think maybe it was the huge size on hers that I was seeing. I am only going from the look online of indoor style photos and not from the fluid movement of colours or the opposite more shards of on/off sparkle the Classic has. Not diamond related but I prefer the edgey modern look on furniture too as opposed to more antique styles with rounded edges, and clean lines in rings as opposed to engraving and antique looking rings, so maybe this is something to do with my preference.
 
Does anyone have a side-by-side picture?
 
Date: 4/27/2007 12:37:22 PM
Author: Harriet
Does anyone have a side-by-side picture?
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pictures wont show the difference to any degree...
The biggest difference is the lack of on/off scint in painted diamonds.
 
Sorry, I don''t understand your second sentence.
 
visually to me the differences are hard to pick out when the diamonds are compared side by side. it is not as though you could look at 8 diamonds and unerringly say 'oh that's classic' and 'oh that's new line' unless you are REALLY well-versed with the visuals.

i would take a classic or a new line definitely. if i had the option of the same exact specs on the stones and one was classic and one was new line....not sure. i might take a new line. i kind of like that more uniform sparkle and the painted girdle edge to edge light return. right now my stone is a blend between the two, it's not an ACA...so best of both worlds IMO!
 
Date: 4/27/2007 12:43:11 PM
Author: Harriet
Sorry, I don''t understand your second sentence.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is the lack of on/off scintillation in painted diamonds.
new line are painted diamonds.
scintillation can only be seen when diamonds or the light is moving so pictures cant show it.
 
I just learnt that my e-ring is the classic. I'll ask if my studs are the new line. If so, I'll be curious about the difference.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 12:47:24 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/27/2007 12:43:11 PM
Author: Harriet
Sorry, I don''t understand your second sentence.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is the lack of on/off scintillation in painted diamonds.
new line are painted diamonds.
scintillation can only be seen when diamonds or the light is moving so pictures cant show it.
Click to expand...
Sorry, another question -- what''s painting?
 
Date: 4/27/2007 12:58:51 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 4/27/2007 12:47:24 PM
Author: strmrdr


Date: 4/27/2007 12:43:11 PM
Author: Harriet
Sorry, I don''t understand your second sentence.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is the lack of on/off scintillation in painted diamonds.
new line are painted diamonds.
scintillation can only be seen when diamonds or the light is moving so pictures cant show it.
Click to expand...
Sorry, another question -- what''s painting?
Click to expand...
Harriet, do a search. There are many threads.

Here is an article that gives an overview.
http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/45/1/Visible-Effects-of-Painting--Digging-on-Superideal-Diamonds.aspx
 
Thanks, John.
 
The only thing that bothers me is this GIA only grading up to -4 degrees painting (from your tutorial John). The diamond I am interested in from looking at reflector images seems to be about -6 degrees (again going on the tutorial). I know AGS does a more objective testing on the optical looks of the stone. I just wish GIA went up to that level too. Does New Line only go up to -6.5 degrees, in your brand it would not go above that would it?

I hear what Storm is saying about you need to see the diamond moving, so that is probably what I have to see yet. I do like the look in pictures of the New Line better though.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 6:15:48 AM
Author: strmrdr
It looks like he has, I havent seen a new line come up here in months.
Click to expand...

Can you say if this is true John?
 
Thlank you John for posting that link in the reply to Harriet. I have had a further read and have found something else out now. This just goes to show that we read all these things and think we know about it, when we do not. Well I always knew I didin''t know about it like a diamond cutter or someone in the trade on that type of level but I compared the reflector Asset image of the stone I want with the chart on John''s web broadcast, also the first chart on that link and I was positive ''in my opinion'' that the green bits at the side of the asset image matched the 6 on that chart. However as I read that link I came across the Ideal scope images of painting and though no the 4 degrees painting looks more like the ideal scope and below that is another Asset image chart and the 4 now looks like the Asset I am comparing. So I was all set to believe it was 6 degrees like the first chart and now I think maybe it is 4. Ofcourse, it could still be 6, only Brian Gavin would probably know for sure, or maybe John, but it goes to show, when we are not trained to know the differences we make mistakes. I would imagine this is the same with clarity grading when we look at a stone and say it must be such and such a grade and yet a grader would probably say we are way off and the same thing with colour.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 1:30:26 PM
Author: Pyramid

The only thing that bothers me is this GIA only grading up to -4 degrees painting (from your tutorial John). The diamond I am interested in from looking at reflector images seems to be about -6 degrees (again going on the tutorial). I know AGS does a more objective testing on the optical looks of the stone. I just wish GIA went up to that level too. Does New Line only go up to -6.5 degrees, in your brand it would not go above that would it?
Click to expand...
No. Brian doesn’t permit them that high.


I hear what Storm is saying about you need to see the diamond moving, so that is probably what I have to see yet. I do like the look in pictures of the New Line better though.
Click to expand...

Strm is right, pictures aren’t enough. Also, there is something to all of this but I caution people who have not seen the two styles not to exaggerate the differences in your minds.

...If you’re wondering why you haven't heard ACA owners debating differences on PS is because this is so subtle.Once in a while someone poses a thread wondering what the differences will be. Once people actually see the ACA styles side by side they realize there’s not so much to debate:Without pointing it out most people don't differentiate between them. Those who do have spent significant time studying diamonds and typically find both styles equal in appeal.

People who own or have compared both types of ACA are best-equipped to comment. From memory, here are some posters you can ask:Mara, Shay37, KTIceRN, Aljdewey, Belle, QueenMum, Appletini, Kenny, ColoredGemstoneNut and DHog.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 8:31:48 AM
Author: DiaGem

I see a slight difference in the star facets by the table and the upper halves...., the star facets are a bit bigger and shallower?
Click to expand...

You may know the technical difference as painting...but saying a diamond is “painted” is like saying “I live in the northern hemisphere.”It’s not saying much.A diamond can be painted on pavilion only, crown only or both. Painting can range from -00.01 to -11.25 degrees.

ACA New Line diamonds are painted on crown only and average -3.75 degrees; some more and some less.It’s a very deliberate territory in the vast “hemisphere” of painting. It brings the angles of the upper girdles closer to each other, allowing light to flow across facet junctions without bring broken up as much as a diamond with classic brillianteering.It can create a broader look to the scintillation depending on lighting, overall configuration and the viewer''s ''cut'' perception.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 1:34:37 PM
Author: Pyramid


Date: 4/27/2007 6:15:48 AM
Author: strmrdr

It looks like he has, I havent seen a new line come up here in months.
Click to expand...
Can you say if this is true John?
Click to expand...
We still produce New Line but they are not as abundant.As Pyramid mentioned, GIA’s cut grading system flatly cuts off all diamonds after -4 degrees painting.Most manufacturers of premium diamonds target GIA parameters so there has been a reduction in the numbers produced, including our cutting partner.On a similar note you may have noticed a rise in the number of diamonds with deeper pavilions & overall depth lately; also in response to GIA’s new system.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 4:49:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 4/27/2007 1:34:37 PM
Author: Pyramid



Date: 4/27/2007 6:15:48 AM
Author: strmrdr

It looks like he has, I havent seen a new line come up here in months.
Click to expand...
Can you say if this is true John?
Click to expand...
We still produce New Line but they are not as abundant.As Pyramid mentioned, GIA’s cut grading system flatly cuts off all diamonds after -4 degrees painting.Most manufacturers of premium diamonds target GIA parameters so there has been a reduction in the numbers produced, including our cutting partner.On a similar note you may have noticed a rise in the number of diamonds with deeper pavilions & overall depth lately; also in response to GIA’s new system.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the 62.9% total depth limit?
 
Date: 4/27/2007 3:07:43 PM
Author: Pyramid
Thlank you John for posting that link in the reply to Harriet. I have had a further read and have found something else out now. This just goes to show that we read all these things and think we know about it, when we do not. Well I always knew I didin't know about it like a diamond cutter or someone in the trade on that type of level but I compared the reflector Asset image of the stone I want with the chart on John's web broadcast, also the first chart on that link and I was positive 'in my opinion' that the green bits at the side of the asset image matched the 6 on that chart. However as I read that link I came across the Ideal scope images of painting and though no the 4 degrees painting looks more like the ideal scope and below that is another Asset image chart and the 4 now looks like the Asset I am comparing. So I was all set to believe it was 6 degrees like the first chart and now I think maybe it is 4. Ofcourse, it could still be 6, only Brian Gavin would probably know for sure, or maybe John, but it goes to show, when we are not trained to know the differences we make mistakes. I would imagine this is the same with clarity grading when we look at a stone and say it must be such and such a grade and yet a grader would probably say we are way off and the same thing with colour.
Click to expand...


Good conclusion. Also, like color perception, it’s hard to know who will detect tangible differences.As with close color grades some perceive the nuance. Unlike color grades, these slight nuances are not seen as ‘better’ or more valuable than the other.

Ellen’s comment about fine wines, far above, was on point.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 4:40:42 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 4/27/2007 8:31:48 AM
Author: DiaGem

I see a slight difference in the star facets by the table and the upper halves...., the star facets are a bit bigger and shallower?
Click to expand...


You may know the technical difference as painting...but saying a diamond is “painted” is like saying “I live in the northern hemisphere.”It’s not saying much.A diamond can be painted on pavilion only, crown only or both. Painting can range from -00.01 to -11.25 degrees.

ACA New Line diamonds are painted on crown only and average -3.75 degrees; some more and some less.It’s a very deliberate territory in the vast “hemisphere” of painting. It brings the angles of the upper girdles closer to each other, allowing light to flow across facet junctions without bring broken up as much as a diamond with classic brillianteering.It can create a broader look to the scintillation depending on lighting, overall configuration and the viewer''s ''cut'' perception.
Click to expand...
Since I dont have almost any experience in round cutting...
I know painting is used for brillianteering the pavilions of lighter fancy colored Diamonds..., eliminating contrast.
But its also an old trick in the cutters calculations of weight retention...

Your explanation sounds very technical..., it does make sense....
 
Date: 4/27/2007 5:02:14 PM
Author: DiaGem

Since I dont have almost any experience in round cutting...
I know painting is used for brillianteering the pavilions of lighter fancy colored Diamonds..., eliminating contrast.
But its also an old trick in the cutters calculations of weight retention...

Your explanation sounds very technical..., it does make sense....
Click to expand...
Thanks DG.

For a technical description: GIA article.

This, from Brian's Journal article.


b]

  1. To try and retain weight at critical points: If a diamond is close to a commercially important weight the painting approach may be used because less material is polished away. On the example below normal indexing would result in a finished diamond weighing 0.99 ct. Painting to 4 degrees - on both crown and pavilion - allows the commercially important 1.00 ct mark to be 'saved.'
  2. To improve a verbal description of girdle thickness or clarity: For example, a very thick girdle may be dug out enough so that it will appear only 'slightly thick' to the grader, or an inclusion could be dug-out in order to improve the clarity grade.
  3. Relative to crown-only painting: To acquire desirable visual properties. A measure of crown-only painting on 'superideal' diamonds can improve the diamond's brightness and increase the amount of visible broadfire dispersion. >>


    In the 1980s Eightstar was the first company to use painting to acquire desirable visual properties. That company made a huge impact on the market as the first 'superideal.' Brian designed his own 'New Line' parameters for ACA in response to escalating demand for the visual properties and all red-black IS image that Eightstar pioneered.
 
Date: 4/27/2007 4:32:51 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 4/27/2007 1:30:26 PM
Author: Pyramid

The only thing that bothers me is this GIA only grading up to -4 degrees painting (from your tutorial John). The diamond I am interested in from looking at reflector images seems to be about -6 degrees (again going on the tutorial). I know AGS does a more objective testing on the optical looks of the stone. I just wish GIA went up to that level too. Does New Line only go up to -6.5 degrees, in your brand it would not go above that would it?
Click to expand...
No. Brian doesn’t permit them that high.
Click to expand...

Sorry John, are you saying he does not permit them over -6.5 degrees or he does not permit them over -4?
 
Date: 4/27/2007 5:16:01 PM
Author: Pyramid

Sorry John, are you saying he does not permit them over -6.5 degrees or he does not permit them over -4?
Click to expand...
They average -3.75 degrees. As a by-product of our process they will not range as high as -6.5. I can't give a precise number because assessment must be based on overall configuration: One diamond may be fine at -4.0 where another is not. Brian personally analyzes every ACA visually.
 
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