Which would you choose? Good price?

[dimatibagbenjamin]

Hi, folks! Found a local jeweler who's offering three options per specifications (no full report at the moment). As mentioned in the title, wondering which you would choose and thoughts on the price?

USD14469 - 1.5ct, F, VS1, L/W Ratio 1.00, table>depth - specifications, ASET, inclusions, pictures and videos of the diamond
USD13,566 - 1.5ct, H, IF, L/W Ratio 1.01 - specifications, ASET, pictures of the diamond
USD15,439 - 1.55ct, F, VS1, L/W Ratio 1.03, table>depth - specifications, ASET, inclusions, pictures of the diamond

Particularly interested in your thoughts on the ASET, too! Thank you!

 

[kenny]

None of those 3.

Why? GIA does not grade the cut (light performance) of Princess cuts.
AGS does, and carries Princess cuts with the best light performance possible, AGS 0.

FWIW better color and clarity do nothing to improve light performance, cut does.
Most diamonds are not cut for light performance because doing so grinds away more of the rough diamond, resulting in lower carat weight.
Very few shoppers understand cut and light performance, but everyone understands carat weight.
Hence the industry makes more money and shoppers get diamonds with inferior light performance.
It's so sad, and unnecessary.

What I'm posting is the solution to this problem.
Fortunately for us a few companies, including the one below, are bucking the trend.

One vendor I know of that carries them is www.whiteflash.com under there A Cut Above brand.

I found 16 there, and 3 fit into your specs:

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

Thank you for the response! I've actually been looking at Whiteflash and have 2 of the 3 you've recommended bookmarked for the same reason (Cut reasons). The reason I can't easily buy from Whiteflash is because of where i'm at.

That's precisely why i'm having even more difficulty with the Princess cut. Question though - won't the ASET, proportion of LxW, Table, and Depth give hints as to how okay (or not okay) the cut is, even without the strict grading?

 

[kenny]

Thank you for the response! I've actually been looking at Whiteflash and have 2 of the 3 you've recommended bookmarked for the same reason (Cut reasons). The reason I can't easily buy from Whiteflash is because of where i'm at.

That's precisely why i'm having even more difficulty with the Princess cut. Question though - won't the ASET, proportion of LxW, Table, and Depth give hints as to how okay (or not okay) the cut is, even without the strict grading?

No, because there are many rows or layers of facets on Princess.
Each row must be positioned precisely, be the correct width, and polished at the perfect angle to optimize light performance.
Plus, to maximize weight of a given piece of rough diamond, a cutter could have put the girdle too high (too close to table) or too low (too far from table) to deliver optimum light performance.
But "LxW, Table, and Depth" offer no clue to any of this.
Princess is a complex cut.

I don't know the details behind "The reason I can't easily buy from Whiteflash is because of where i'm at."
But if it is costs you incur like VAT tax, customs etc., look closely and compare all the benefits of buying from WF, trade up % return policy, customer service, and price for probably the best cut of a princess you are going to find compared to buying locally (to which those costs have already been factored in BTW)
Read the WF website closely.

If you can't buy from WF try to find a vendor where you live that can order a Princess cut graded by AGS to be Triple Zero.

If you absolutely can't buy an AGS 0 pricess I'd save screen captures of as many ASETS of Whiteflash's AGS 0 Princesses and keep those to compare GIA-graded Princes cut ASETs to.

Also I'll mention, once one of us old timers recommend specific stones they often get bought up by lurkers.

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

Thanks very much for the education, Kenny! All well noted and will make sure to keep these in mind accordingly. I was going to ask if i could get your thoughts on certain prospects i have!

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Hi, folks! Found a local jeweler who's offering three options per specifications (no full report at the moment). As mentioned in the title, wondering which you would choose and thoughts on the price?

USD14469 - 1.5ct, F, VS1, L/W Ratio 1.00, table>depth - specifications, ASET, inclusions, pictures and videos of the diamond
USD13,566 - 1.5ct, H, IF, L/W Ratio 1.01 - specifications, ASET, pictures of the diamond
USD15,439 - 1.55ct, F, VS1, L/W Ratio 1.03, table>depth - specifications, ASET, inclusions, pictures of the diamond

Particularly interested in your thoughts on the ASET, too! Thank you!

They look almost identical to me, with dimensions, depth percentage, table all about the same. Under 70% table is more ideal, but they are all very good, IMO. Color is your preference, but H is still very good. Otherwise, can you take the extra money and put it towards your mount? The money you save on the stone could pay for the mounting. Shop carefully for that as well! Good luck!

 

[Lisa Murphy]

They look almost identical to me, with dimensions, depth percentage, table all about the same. Under 70% table is more ideal, but they are all very good, IMO. Color is your preference, but H is still very good. Otherwise, can you take the extra money and put it towards your mount? The money you save on the stone could pay for the mounting. Shop carefully for that as well! Good luck!

P.S. Make sure the diamond has a laser inscription that matches your GIA report. Don't buy without verifying this.

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

Lisa, thank you very much for the advise. I'll be taking that into consideration - and, yes, i can bring the color up and spend more money. As for the table being less than 70%. Is it true as well that table should ideally be less than depth? And would there be an ideal, closer to ideal ratio between table and depth (or just as long as they're below certain %'s)?

 

[distracts]

P.S. Make sure the diamond has a laser inscription that matches your GIA report. Don't buy without verifying this.

Not all diamonds are laser inscribed - this is an optional add-on service GIA offers. Do not spread misinformation that all diamonds will be inscribed.

 

[kenny]

IMO the best way to verify the diamond matches the report is to learn how to personally identify and verify inclusions in the diamond match those on its report.

Buy a loupe.
The $35 Belomo is very fine and competes with loupes costing hundreds of dollars.
Learn how to use it.
If you really learn how to use it you'll see much smaller details than will be seen by the novice.

BelOMO 10x Triplet Loupe Magnifier - the best Jewelry loupe

The BelOMO 10x loupe magnifier is often compared to one of the Bausch&Lomb magnifiers - Hastings Triplet Loupe in terms of quality and reputation for accuracy, however it is necessary to mention that the BelOMO magnifier has a larger viewing area – 0,67''

belomostore.com

 

[kenny]

Thanks very much for the education, Kenny! All well noted and will make sure to keep these in mind accordingly. I was going to ask if i could get your thoughts on certain prospects i have!

Sorry, I'm not qualified to answer that question.
The complexity of the princess cut with all those rows is way over my head.
Hopefully a cut expert here will respond, like @Karl_K

That incomprehensible complexity is exactly why I go with a branded cut I trust to be super-ideal, like an ACA from WF, and trust and depend on the best gem lab for princes cuts, AGS.
10 to 15 thousand dollars is a lot to spend on a diamond that could preform better.
It would forever bother me every time I look at it.

Again I recommend you try to work out the difficulties you feel prevents you from of buying from WF.
Perhaps if you post them someone here has found a way that addresses those concerns.

 

[Karl_K]

The ones you have been offered based on ASET and the other info are above average but as Kenny noted not top of the line.
They were well executed but lack the little tweaks to set them apart from the second chair.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Not all diamonds are laser inscribed - this is an optional add-on service GIA offers. Do not spread misinformation that all diamonds will be inscribed.

I was trying to let the buyer know that it is important to verify this information! Tradespeople can take advantage of buyers this way, so the laser inscription is really the only way the buyer can know if their diamond matches the report. : )

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Lisa, thank you very much for the advise. I'll be taking that into consideration - and, yes, i can bring the color up and spend more money. As for the table being less than 70%. Is it true as well that table should ideally be less than depth? And would there be an ideal, closer to ideal ratio between table and depth (or just as long as they're below certain %'s)?

I am just an old lady who's been around for awhile. I am not an expert like some of these guys, but I can tell you that all three of the stones you are considering I would have a very hard time to tell them apart, even under magnification. I can also say that I would be thrilled to have any of them! That being said, please be careful! Watch out for the things I have mentioned, don't forget to budget for the mounting. Buying your ring is an exciting event but you don't want it to be something that prevents you from doing other things as well. (Honeymoon? House?) Always keep in mind the big picture, and then you will have a great future and no regrets! All the best!

 

[kenny]

Member @Karl_K

I was trying to let the buyer know that it is important to verify this information! Tradespeople can take advantage of buyers this way, so the laser inscription is really the only way the buyer can know if their diamond matches the report. : )

Well, actually, in theory anyone can send a diamond to GIA, even you or me.
I have, and I'm not in the industry.
We can request GIA inscribes anything onto the girdle.
Heck, they'd probably even laser inscribe John lubs Janet in big letters right on the table if you paid them their fee.

Being able to identify a diamond's inclusions yourself is best, unless you buy an internally flawless or flawless diamond.
When you have this ability you don't have to trust anyone.

 

[Karl_K]

Member @Karl_K


Well, actually, in theory anyone can send a diamond to GIA, even you or me.
I have, and I'm not in the industry.
We can request GIA inscribes anything onto the girdle.
Heck, they'd probably even laser inscribe John lubs Janet in big letters right on the table if you paid them their fee.

Being able to identify a diamond's inclusions yourself is best, unless you buy an internally flawless or flawless diamond.
When you have this ability you don't have to trust anyone.

Both have a place.
A lot of reports no longer have a plot so reading the inscription is the best way to get the initial verification. GIA requires the number be inscribed with those reports.
If I saw a report on a "new" diamond that did not mention an inscription in this day and age plot or not I would be very skeptical.

Then once you have the inscription verified then a loupe and an inclusion or better yet an inclusion pattern is a lot easier and faster than finding the inscription and in some ways even safer.
Duplicating an inscription can be done, duplicating an inclusion pattern not so much.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Yes, but most people don't have the skills necessary to be able to do this. The only practical option a buyer has is to ask for the GIA report and laser inscription when they make a major diamond purchase.

 

[Karl_K]

Yes, but most people don't have the skills necessary to be able to do this. The only practical option a buyer has is to ask for the GIA report and laser inscription when they make a major diamond purchase.

AGS is another lab on par with GIA and better for cut grading rounds.
For mmd igi and gcal are acceptable to me.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Buyers! GIA is the gold standard for the industry. No one will question your GIA cert and you should look for it as a trusted documentation of your purchase. It also enhances value considerably if you decide to sell.

 

[distracts]

I was trying to let the buyer know that it is important to verify this information! Tradespeople can take advantage of buyers this way, so the laser inscription is really the only way the buyer can know if their diamond matches the report. : )

No, it's not, especially since not all diamonds graded by GIA are laser-inscribed. Checking the inscription is one thing you can do, if the diamond has an inscription. Matching the inclusions to the inclusion plot is the way to go, just as Kenny said.

Yes, but most people don't have the skills necessary to be able to do this. The only practical option a buyer has is to ask for the GIA report and laser inscription when they make a major diamond purchase.

This is why independent appraisers exist - you can pay a hundred dollars or whatever, sit in the room with a person with a microscope and other tools, and they can tell you if your diamond matches the report. I do this for all my purchases over a certain dollar amount to make sure things check out.

 

[Karl_K]

Yes, but most people don't have the skills necessary to be able to do this. The only practical option a buyer has is to ask for the GIA report and laser inscription when they make a major diamond purchase.

Not true, most anyone can learn to identify their vs or lower clarity diamond with a loupe and some into the vvs range.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

True, but the buyer can't usually take something to an appraiser until after the purchase. By then, it may be too late if there is a problem. Most retailers have a pretty narrow window for returns if they are allowed at all.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

Not true, most anyone can learn to identify their vs or lower clarity diamond with a loupe and some into the vvs range.

You are right, but for the price of the stones folks are talking about here, I wouldn't consider a purchase without a cert.

 

[Karl_K]

I forgot to add when using a loupe to id your stone it does not have to be from the top.
Your not grading, you are finding a feature to identify your stone to you.

 

[Karl_K]

You are right, but for the price of the stones folks are talking about here, I wouldn't consider a purchase without a cert.

That is not what we are talking about.
We are talking about initialy matching the stone to the report then being able to easily id your diamond for example you have it cleaned. Its handed back check it for your identifying feature right there with a loupe.

 

[Lisa Murphy]

But with really good ones it may be hard to spot those "features." And then there's the problem of the simulants...Then it gets really tricky! Buyers, again, if its a major purchase (for me that's anything over $500) get those certs!

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

Lisa, you sound like a lovely lady - thank you for the message. I enjoyed reading it.



Thank you, too, Distracts and Karl_K for your thoughts.



Kenny, good news! Per your advice, i checked around and i might just be able to go the WF route! I’ll also look at the inscription as well as the inclusions to match the report per your recommendation. Luckily, i have a number of loupes available for a hobby of mine.

That said, I was hoping to get your thoughts on these i’m looking at:

Diamond | 1.605 ct E VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Princess Super Ideal Cut Diamond AGS Certified | 4123838

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.605 carat E color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4123838

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.605 ct E VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Princess Super Ideal Cut Diamond AGS Certified | 4123838

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.605 carat E color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4123838

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.511 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Princess Super Ideal Cut Diamond AGS Certified | 4460740

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.511 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4460740

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.517 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Princess Super Ideal Cut Diamond AGS Certified | 3765174

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.517 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 3765174

www.whiteflash.com

i’m getting a better understanding when it comes to the figures and the details on the diamond and its certificate but when it comes to looking at these diamonds through the screen, it gets rather difficult. Or if you have any other ones you would recommend instead, would appreciate it!

Thank you.

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

*sorry, the second link is supposed to be this one:

Diamond | 1.757 ct H VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Princess Super Ideal Cut Diamond AGS Certified | 4429333

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.757 carat H color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4429333

www.whiteflash.com

 

[dimatibagbenjamin]

And just to add to the above, this is one i'm rather liking https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4152298.htm

However, the feathers seem to be located around the edges of the diamond - and they say to be wary of feathers in that location due to potential chippings? Especially since it's the area where pressure will be placed upon when setting in a ring. Or would this be something that shouldn't deter from this diamond? Thank you, folks!

 

[tyty333]

Here they are in a "Compare. Sometimes it's easier when you can see them all together.

Diamond comparison | Compare Diamonds to choose and buy the best one

Whiteflash gives you an excellent opportunity to compare diamonds to make a great deal. With diamond’s parameters provided, you can compare any detail.

www.whiteflash.com

I'll comment in a second.