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*WHICH STONE* is better?

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
Hi, Could you offer some inputs on these two stones plz? :wall: Thank you.

1. HCA: 1.5

1.45ct, 7.23 * 7.27 * 4.50mm,
G color, VVS1, No fluorescence, excellent cut, excellent polish and very good symmetry
Total Depth Percentage: 62.1 %,
Table Size: 56%,
Crown Height: 15.6%,
Crown Angle 35.2,
Star Length: 50%,
Pavilion Depth: 42.8%,
Pavilion AngleL 40.7,
Lower Half Length: 80%,
Girdle Thickness: Medium,
Girdle Finish: Faceted,
Culet: None.

2. HCA: 0.7
1.52ct, 7.48 * 7.51 * 4.50mm,
G color, VVS2, No fluorescence, excellent cut, excellent polish and excellent symmetry
Total Depth Percentage: 60.0 %,
Table Size: 57%,
Crown Height: 14.5%,
Crown Angle 33.8,
Star Length: 53%,
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%,
Pavilion AngleL 40.7,
Lower Half Length: 80%,
Girdle Thickness: Thin to Medium,
Girdle Finish: Faceted,
Culet: None.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Who graded them?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Buy the second.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
They are both good stones on paper. #2 wins because
1. it is significantly larger by 0.24mm, considering the mere 0.07ct difference in carat weight, due to the lower depth of #2. Yes, this difference in diameter is noticeable.
2. VVS2 is already an overkill and completely eye-clean. VVS1 is a super overkill. There is no need to pay any premium for VVS1, unless if you have other reason. VS1 is as high as I would go, which is also eye-clean.
3. #2 scores excellent in symmetry.

#1 may have more fire/dispersion due to the steeper crown angle of 35.2. This is to be determined by side by side comparison.

If the price difference is not significant, #2 gets my vote as well, based on the information given here.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
FP summed it up perfectly. I would advise VS1 clarity. Always clean and safe and will lower costs with no visual impact.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468694707|4056125 said:
They are both good stones on paper. #2 wins because
1. it is significantly larger by 0.24mm, considering the mere 0.07ct difference in carat weight, due to the lower depth of #2. Yes, this difference in diameter is noticeable.
2. VVS2 is already an overkill and completely eye-clean. VVS1 is a super overkill. There is no need to pay any premium for VVS1, unless if you have other reason. VS1 is as high as I would go, which is also eye-clean.
3. #2 scores excellent in symmetry.

#1 may have more fire/dispersion due to the steeper crown angle of 35.2. This is to be determined by side by side comparison.

If the price difference is not significant, #2 gets my vote as well, based on the information given here.

Thank you flyingpig. You are absolutely RIGHT. #1's table size seems a lot bigger and #2 seems to have more fire.
Thank YOU!
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
Thank you for the replies guys!

Got two more questions:

What does it mean to have VG symmetry VS excellent?
The price difference is 4k and her current finger size is 3.75. Would you still recommend going with #1?

Thank YOU very much. :appl:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
rocky121|1468733333|4056260 said:
Thank you for the replies guys!

Got two more questions:

What does it mean to have VG symmetry VS excellent?
The price difference is 4k and her current finger size is 3.75. Would you still recommend going with #1?

Thank YOU very much. :appl:
Unfortunately, no diamond lab report indicates the exact reason for deduction in symmetry or if the deduction in symmetry impacts light performance/visual appearance with naked eyes.
I am not too sure if this is helpful, but is still a good read if you want to learn.
http://diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/polish_and_symmetry.pdf

Gypsy and I both prefer #2, not #1.
Which one costs 4k more than the other? I assume it is #2. I am not too sure if I still like #2 if it costs 4k more.

I personally don't really recommend going with either stone. #2 seems better than #1 between these two (before the pricing was mentioned). It does not mean that #2 is without a flaw. As mentioned, the slightly low crown angle of 33.8 and the slightly large lower girdle length of 80% may or may not produce enough contrast and dispersion (which affect fire/sparkle) to your liking. I am really nitpicking at this point. But if I were to pay Tiffany tax and spend 25k+, the diamond, at least, needs to be perfect with the most ideal proportions.

If you HAVE TO HAVE a Tiffany ring, I would drop the clarity to VS2/VS1, and stay under 1.5c to avoid 1.5c premium. That may save you a few thousands dollar. Gotta ask your lady about this.

Anything over 7.00mm will be significant presence and big enough for 3.75 finger size, IMHO.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468736247|4056263 said:
rocky121|1468733333|4056260 said:
Thank you for the replies guys!

Got two more questions:

What does it mean to have VG symmetry VS excellent?
The price difference is 4k and her current finger size is 3.75. Would you still recommend going with #1?

Thank YOU very much. :appl:
Unfortunately, no diamond lab report indicates the exact reason for deduction in symmetry or if the deduction in symmetry impacts light performance/visual appearance with naked eyes.
I am not too sure if this is helpful, but is still a good read if you want to learn.
http://diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/polish_and_symmetry.pdf

Gypsy and I both prefer #2, not #1.
Which one costs 4k more than the other? I assume it is #2.

I personally don't really recommend going with either stone. #2 seems better than #1 between these two. It does not mean that #2 is without a flaw. As mentioned, a slightly low crown angle of 33.8 and a slightly large lower girdle length of 80% may or may not produce enough contrast and dispersion (which affect fire/sparkle) to your liking. If I were to pay Tiffany tax and spend 25k+, the diamond, at least, needs to be perfect with the most ideal proportions.

If you HAVE TO HAVE a Tiffany ring, I would drop the clarity to VS2/VS1, and stay under 1.5c to avoid 1.5c premium. That may save you a few thousands dollar. Gotta ask your lady about this.

Anything over 7.00mm will be significant presence and big enough for 3.75 finger size, IMHO.

Thank you flyingpig! I got the number order wrong. My apologies. What I mean to say is,
#2 costs 4k more than #1 and we think #2 is a little too big for her 3.75 finger size. Given that information, would you still recommend #2 between these two?

Since there is no appearance difference with naked eyes in terms of symmetry between two stones, why would you recommend #2?
I appreciate your opinion.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
rocky121|1468738121|4056265 said:
What are the disadvantages on stone #1 besides the VVS1 clarity/ VG symmetry?
There is no disadvantages going with VVS1, as long as you don't pay unreasonable premium, or you accept to pay the premium after doing full research on clarity.

There is no disadvantages going with VG Symmetry as long as you verify there is no negative impact on light performance and visual appearance. In fact, it may be a reasonable strategy to save some money. It is also a psychological thing. We just like Triple Ex stones and have it documented on the lab report...bragging rights I guess.. :naughty: :naughty:
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468739440|4056267 said:
rocky121|1468738121|4056265 said:
What are the disadvantages on stone #1 besides the VVS1 clarity/ VG symmetry?
There is no disadvantages going with VVS1, as long as you don't pay unreasonable premium, or you accept to pay the premium after doing full research on clarity.

There is no disadvantages going with VG Symmetry as long as you verify there is no negative impact on light performance and visual appearance. It is also a psychological thing.
Are there any other disadvantages with stone #1? I truly appreciate your help. :appl:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
rocky121|1468739891|4056268 said:
flyingpig|1468739440|4056267 said:
rocky121|1468738121|4056265 said:
What are the disadvantages on stone #1 besides the VVS1 clarity/ VG symmetry?
There is no disadvantages going with VVS1, as long as you don't pay unreasonable premium, or you accept to pay the premium after doing full research on clarity.

There is no disadvantages going with VG Symmetry as long as you verify there is no negative impact on light performance and visual appearance. It is also a psychological thing.
Are there any other disadvantages with stone #1? I truly appreciate your help. :appl:
I don't see any. 62.1/56/35.2/40.7 is a great combo according to HCA and AGS proportion chart. It would be nice if you can view the stone thru a IS scope to see any light leakage.
My original input did not factor in the 4k price difference.

Lastly, I will just throw in something comparable with the best cut,
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3642151.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3698983.htm

I just would like to inform you what other vendors can offer you.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
Hahaha. Luckily, She thinks it is too big on her. She said it first.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468740164|4056270 said:
rocky121|1468739891|4056268 said:
flyingpig|1468739440|4056267 said:
rocky121|1468738121|4056265 said:
What are the disadvantages on stone #1 besides the VVS1 clarity/ VG symmetry?
There is no disadvantages going with VVS1, as long as you don't pay unreasonable premium, or you accept to pay the premium after doing full research on clarity.

There is no disadvantages going with VG Symmetry as long as you verify there is no negative impact on light performance and visual appearance. It is also a psychological thing.
Are there any other disadvantages with stone #1? I truly appreciate your help. :appl:
I don't see any. 62.1/56/35.2/40.7 is a great combo according to HCA and AGS proportion chart. It would be nice if you can view the stone thru a IS scope to see any light leakage.
My original input did not factor in the 4k price difference.

Lastly, I will just throw in something comparable with the best cut,
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3642151.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3698983.htm

I just would like to inform you what other vendors can offer you.
Thank you! We might consider other vendors if it wasn't the engagement ring. We probably will go with #1 and we will give some updates after receiving the item. I appreciate all your help.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
It is an interesting topic.
My lady's finger size is 3.5. She and I were shopping together, tried multiple rings, and agreed that anything larger than 1.0c was too big on her. So we went with 0.9c.
Later, I mentioned to her that I would double the size in 5 years. She did not say "NO" :naughty:
A diamond can never be too big.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468741555|4056275 said:
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
It is an interesting topic.
My lady's finger size is 3.5. She and I were shopping together, tried multiple rings, and agreed that anything larger than 1.0c was too big on her. So we went with 0.9c.
Later, I mentioned to her that I would double the size in 5 years. She did not say "NO" :naughty:
A diamond can never be too big.
Haha, does that mean we need an upgrade in 5 years? :wall:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
rocky121|1468741874|4056278 said:
flyingpig|1468741555|4056275 said:
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
It is an interesting topic.
My lady's finger size is 3.5. She and I were shopping together, tried multiple rings, and agreed that anything larger than 1.0c was too big on her. So we went with 0.9c.
Later, I mentioned to her that I would double the size in 5 years. She did not say "NO" :naughty:
A diamond can never be too big.
Haha, does that mean we need an upgrade in 5 years? :wall:
lol.. that's why I started small..

Anyways..
Actually, potential future upgrade should also be a consideration.
To my understanding, Tiffany's upgrade policy is that the new ring must be at least 2x of the original ring. I got no problem with this policy when I start at 5k and need to spend another 5k to make it 10k. However, in your case, this is very inflexible considering you are starting at 25k+ or even 30k??
With WF, the new diamond just needs to be equal or greater value.

Again, good luck with your purchase. I hope you make the most well informed decision.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
flyingpig|1468741555|4056275 said:
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
It is an interesting topic.
My lady's finger size is 3.5. She and I were shopping together, tried multiple rings, and agreed that anything larger than 1.0c was too big on her. So we went with 0.9c.
Later, I mentioned to her that I would double the size in 5 years. She did not say "NO" :naughty:
A diamond can never be too big.
Over here in the UK it can be. Large diamonds are made fun of, and not by jealous people, thought of a ostentatious and MOST IF NOT NEARLY ALL people would rather spend the money elsewhere. It has been spoken about here before, but people here do not spend much time on the engagement ring or really talk about it much after the engagement. There is more emphasis on the couple being engaged and that they get on well, will get a home and the ring is really only talked about in later years, like a mother to her teenage children talking about it in a sentimental way that they have had the ring all this time sort of thing.
In Norway engagement rings don't really exist, same in Germany I believe, they get the wedding ring, wear it on their hand and swop hands on marriage. Norway right to left and Germany left to right hand on marriage. Most jewellers have rings in the quarter, third carat range with maybe quarter of that stock in half carat and may have about 3 rings in the over half carat range which just sits there and no one hardly buys.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468742792|4056280 said:
rocky121|1468741874|4056278 said:
flyingpig|1468741555|4056275 said:
Gypsy|1468741018|4056271 said:
Stone two is not too big for her finger at all, we have people on here with 3 carat stones on size three fingers and it looks great.
It is an interesting topic.
My lady's finger size is 3.5. She and I were shopping together, tried multiple rings, and agreed that anything larger than 1.0c was too big on her. So we went with 0.9c.
Later, I mentioned to her that I would double the size in 5 years. She did not say "NO" :naughty:
A diamond can never be too big.
Haha, does that mean we need an upgrade in 5 years? :wall:
lol.. that's why I started small..

Anyways..
Actually, potential future upgrade should also be a consideration.
To my understanding, Tiffany's upgrade policy is that the new ring must be at least 2x of the original ring. I got no problem with this policy when I start at 5k and need to spend another 5k to make it 10k. However, in your case, this is very inflexible considering you are starting at 25k+ or even 30k??
With WF, the new diamond just needs to be equal or greater value.

Again, good luck with your purchase. I hope you make the most well informed decision.
FP, I decided to check out the stones one more time. Here is my plan: For stone #1 (1.45ct) I will use the i-scope(http://ideal-scope.com/product/expert-scope-with-cz/) to check for light leakage. I am not sure how to check for the contrast/dispersion/fire/sparkle on Stone #2 though. It does seem #1 has more fire with my naked eyes.
Also, it seems like the price difference might be 2.5k due to a little discount offered by the manager(not certain yet). What do you think?
Again, thank you!
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,547
If you are going to get a IS, get a ASET scope instead. It reveals more information on light return. Some members actually have their own IS/ASET scope, and it is a good strategy IMO when you spend such large sum on a diamond.

The arrows represent contrast. You can inspect the size, shape and clarity of the arrows, although either stone should be not have any contrast problem based on the proportions.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to measure fire/sparkle/dispersion, other than you take the diamond to an appraisal and have it 3D scanned and analysized with a software. I am not too sure if this can be done to a mounted stone. You may have to rely on visual inspection. Try to view each diamond under different lighting conditions, from different angles, and from different distances, and see what pleases you the most. I use the indoor store light, daylight if there is a window, and smartphone flash light. I am not surprised that #1 has more fire and sparkle, considering 35.2/40.7 combo.

This is why many PS members choose premier vendors such WF, GOG, Brian Gavin. All this inspection and homework are done for you, and all questions are answered, and there is no uncertainty (I respect you and your partner's decision to go with Tiffany. You both like Tiffany, and you should get Tiffany. Just giving you more information)

If both stones happened to have no light leakage issue upon inspecting with the IS/ASET and you see more fire in #1, the question is "does 0.24mm and 0.07ct increase worth 2.5k while you lose some fire?" It is something that only the wearer can answer.
 

rocky121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
15
flyingpig|1468796720|4056499 said:
If you are going to get a IS, get a ASET scope instead. It reveals more information on light return. Some members actually have their own IS/ASET scope, and it is a good strategy IMO when you spend such large sum on a diamond.

The arrows represent contrast. You can inspect the size, shape and clarity of the arrows, although either stone should be not have any contrast problem based on the proportions.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to measure fire/sparkle/dispersion, other than you take the diamond to an appraisal and have it 3D scanned and analysized with a software. I am not too sure if this can be done to a mounted stone. You may have to rely on visual inspection. Try to view each diamond under different lighting conditions, from different angles, and from different distances, and see what pleases you the most. I use the indoor store light, daylight if there is a window, and smartphone flash light. I am not surprised that #1 has more fire and sparkle, considering 35.2/40.7 combo.

This is why many PS members choose premier vendors such WF, GOG, Brian Gavin. All this inspection and homework are done for you, and all questions are answered, and there is no uncertainty (I respect you and your partner's decision to go with Tiffany. You both like Tiffany, and you should get Tiffany. Just giving you more information)

If both stones happened to have no light leakage issue upon inspecting with the IS/ASET and you see more fire in #1, the question is "does 0.24mm and 0.07ct increase worth 2.5k while you lose some fire?" It is something that only the wearer can answer.
Thank you! :D
 
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