WHICH STONE DO I NEED?

[iLander]

Hello, long-time lurker, finally need some real help, so signed on.

Here''s the question: remember those rings you got from bubble gum machines when you were a kid? They were basically a single, colored plastic, stone in a solitaire setting. They were big round stones, around 7-8 mm and they were the bomb for a seven-year-old.

Now that I''m grown up, I''d like to recreate that thrill in real gold with a real stone, a red one.

So which type of stone do I need? Garnet is too brown and ruby too expensive. The stone has to "glow", because, if you remember, the bubble gum machine rings were foil-backed with tin (or whatever) and it gave them an extra push. I want the red to sing from across the room. No purple tones, brown tones or extinction, is the optimum. A true red, like those silly (but fab) little rings.

Spessy? Rubelite? Spinel? Sunstone? Tourmaline (is there a true red in there)? What?

I''d like to wrap this whole thing up for a few hundred, I can pop it into a Tripps solitaire setting myself.

If you can reply with pix and/or links, that would be great. THANK YOU!!

 

[Barrett]

well pure red rubellites are extremely rare..Vincent pardieu said he has yet to see a pure red spinel and he has looked at lots and lots of spinels..off hand only pure reds I can think of are rubies

 

[marcy]

Spinel, ruby or garnet would be my choice for a red stone. IMO the most saturated, pure red stone is a ruby.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Mahenge are more pink, but they glow in a way that I think would work really well for what you are looking for.
Zicrons come in a number of reds, it might be worth a try.

Otherwise, I think you are looking at synthetic to get what you want.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Honestly, you are not going to get pure, stoplight red for a couple of hundred, no matter what the size. True red is the rarest colour in the gem world and one of the most coveted, so prices reflect that.

By the way, there is no need to scream (all caps) - we are all very willing to help!

 

[T L]

I agree with LadyD. Pure red is rare in nature and has a price tag to reflect it. If you want a pure red stone for a few hundred dollars, unfortunately the only gem I can think of is synthetic ruby. Sorry.

 

[iLander]

Oh, sorry! Didn''t mean to scream, I just use all caps a lot because it''s quicker to type than upper and lower case.

What about a spessartite? I''ve seen some online that look pretty red. Also, why is it sometimes called Spessartine? Or is that just a typo?

If ruby is the only answer, how can anyone possibly find a reputable dealer with a quality stone (nothing other than heat) and afford it?

BTW I resisted the urge to put all caps on "and" in that last line .

 

[iLander]

That''s an idea, red zircon. Lots of sparkle too! What about dark areas and extinction? Is that an issue with Zircon? I have a 5 mm purplish (kind of a lilac) zircon that doesn''t seem to have any of those issues, but I''ve never seen a red one in real life.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/23/2010 5:04:01 PM
Author: iLander


Oh, sorry! Didn''t mean to scream, I just use all caps a lot because it''s quicker to type than upper and lower case.

What about a spessartite? I''ve seen some online that look pretty red. Also, why is it sometimes called Spessartine? Or is that just a typo?

If ruby is the only answer, how can anyone possibly find a reputable dealer with a quality stone (nothing other than heat) and afford it?

BTW I resisted the urge to put all caps on ''and'' in that last line .

It''s supposed to be -ine in Europe and -ite in the USA. Certainly my tutor talks about spessartine, but I still use spessartite... it''s a PITA actually as most use -ite eg. tsavorite, tanzanite which are -ite in Europe as well.

If I wanted to do this without getting a mortgage, I would get someone to cut me a hollow cab from a red garnet - that way you get the colour, the size and an affordable stone. It''s a trick that was often done in the past to lighten up darker stones and I think they can look great...

 

[delayedreaction]

What about a fracture filled ruby? Sure it''s part glass, but then it wouldn''t cost you more than 50 bucks or so.

 

[iLander]

All good suggestions, but I prefer a 100% natural stone. Heat treatment is where I draw the line. I''m old-fashioned that way, I guess.

Surely there is a red stone that looks good?

Is Zircon too brittle for a ring? Does Spessartite have a lot of extinction? Will garnet work if it''s cut right? What type of ganet? Not almandine, obviously, anything else? What is the deal with Spinel, what are the secondary hues in it? I''ve never seen a sunstone IRL, what are they like?

It would need to be a faceted stone to give me the gum machine look, so please let''s hear your thoughts.

 

[DistinctionJewelry]

I''ve seen high quality, well cut pyrope garnet in a pure red with no brown and only minimal extinction. It''s not common, but it''s out there.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 5/23/2010 8:34:09 PM
Author: DistinctionJewelry
I''ve seen high quality, well cut pyrope garnet in a pure red with no brown and only minimal extinction. It''s not common, but it''s out there.

Fine red chrome pyropes exist but good ones are mainly 5 mm. and under. Larger sizes quickly grow dark and they tend to be included. What''s the largest size clean and bright stone you''ve seen?

Richard M.

 

[VapidLapid]

http://www.planetarygems.com/Rubypage.htm

 

[Rockit]

I agree, red in any stone is rare and coveted. I'm not sure what you'll be able to find for just a few hundred dollars that is glowy, ruby red in color, AND natural. That's a tall order, for sure.

Without price as a consideration, I think the choices are (as already mentioned) ruby, spinel, rubellite tourmaline and garnet. You might be able to find a red beryl (bixbite, sometimes marketed as red emerald); however, these stones are incredibly rare, pricey, and most likely quite small.

Of the group, the most reasonably priced should be garnet, however, finding a RED specimen, without pink, purple or orange modifiers, will be mighty difficult, and then, it WILL cost you. Of course, if you can live with red with one of these modifiers, you may find some lovely, bright, and durable stones.

One last thought: have you considered a ruby cabochon instead of a faceted stone? I think you could find something that would give you your color fix while not busting your piggy bank.

 

[iLander]

I have some emails out to some cutters and maybe they can help by looking through their stock. If it''s cut right, a lot of stones wil probably work. I guess I don''t need the flourescence of a ruby, sparkly will have to do. The concept is big and blingy, trying to be a kid again.

I''m thinking I might go with a red spessy, I''ve seen some with minimal brown, and a little bit of orange is okay. I can get a 7-8 mm round for about $200-$300 I think. Does anyone have any experience with a red spessartite? Does it hold it''s color in all lighting conditions?

 

[iLander]

P.S. I''m going to look into that red beryl, never thought of that one!

 

[ma re]

Red, glowy, natural and 7-8 mm is a really tough task for your budget, and I''d say the options are ruby, spinel, tourmaline and bixbite - but all would probably cost quite a bit more. Anything other than these is either not really red, or doesen''t glow. But since you mention now that glow is not a must, that gives you many extra possibilities.

Also don''t forget that the color of the metal might influence the color of the stone, and it''s good to talk to your jeweller about that. Maybe it would be a good idea to play with some stones (if the jeweller has some loose, or if you can borrow) and try to see how they look next to various metals. Yellow gold makes purplish-red stones more red, and other metals have their own influences too, but it''s also a matter of the gold alloy, cause there are many and they can come in different shades of color. Going two-tone or something similar can also make a difference, as well as a setting technique used. If you''d say go for a bezel, you should remember that it will most likely darken the stone quite a bit, which I think is a good idea in your case. I say that because lately we''ve seen quite a few light red stones here on PS, which I''d personally all bezel to make them more red (cause if you darken a pinkish-red stone, it''ll seem much more red). You can also think about getting several smaller stones and setting them in a variation of an invisible setting (hope you know what that is). It will be obvious it''s not one stone, but will give you the impresion of one larger stone and you might like that. If you''d go for 4 smaller stones set next to each other, each would need to be 3.5 - 4 mm, and that might give you a chance to get some stones you otherwise couldn''t have cause such small, calibrated stones don''t cost too much.

Anyway, good luck with your search, and if it turns out like a hard job, you can always find some millionaire to marry you and buy you real rubies

 

[Rockit]

If you are not stuck on finding "ruby" red, a fiery "ketchup" red spessartite may work for you. I love mine. BTW, I''d venture to say that you will not find red beryl in the large size/price that you desire.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/23/2010 5:04:01 PM
Author: iLander
If ruby is the only answer, how can anyone possibly find a reputable dealer with a quality stone (nothing other than heat) and afford it?

SAVING THEIR MONEY

 

[chrono]

Red beryl or bixbite is actually very expensive, soft and do not come in large sizes. I’m afraid for what you want, something has to give. There is no such thing as a pure red stone of 7 mm that is untreated which will cost in the low hundreds. If you can accept some modifiers, yes, it might be possible in a reddish orange spessartite. Do note that a spessartite garnet is also not an everyday wear ring but is best as an occasional wear ring that should be worn with care.

 

[iLander]

Thanks, Chrono, I think that is the direction I''ll have to go in.

BTW: what is that stone that you''re using as you avatar? That''s stunning! My guess is spinel . . .

 

[chrono]

Thank you. Yes, it is a 5 carat pinkish red spinel from the Mahenge area, hence known as a Mahenge spinel.

 

[iLander]

Okay got some feedback from gem cutters, who I think would know best, on the stone color:

Most natural stones, including rubies, will show an orange or
purplish secondary hue depending on the type of light you''re in. Usually, iron is the culprit for the orange tones
and that''s why iron is not included when they make synthetic rubies. For the size stone you''re looking for, red
tourmaline and garnet are probably your best hope, but you will probably get an orangish or purplish secondary
hue.

The only pure red stones that I am aware of that really glow are
either rubies and some red spinels. Unfortunately, good untreated
natural material is very expensive and hard-to-find. I know because
my wife is still waiting for a ruby from me! I cut a very small (4mm)
one a couple of years ago, and the color was phenomenal. I wish I had
kept it because now I realize how rare that color is. A 7mm in this
color would be extremely valuable.

A couple of other options are Mahenge spinel from Tanzania or Maringu
rubies from Kenya, but both of these tend to be more purplish in
color. I also have a Burmese spinel, but it''s a darker red and it
does not have the glow that you are looking for. In addition, I have
some Nigerian spessartites that cut a hot orangey-red stone, although
it does have some brownish undertones.

So, this leads me to conclude that, unless I hit it lucky with a red stone with only orange undertones, I''m stuck. I guess I will search for that.

Any ideas where to look? Please mention only dealers that you have experience with.

 

[chrono]

iLander,
The gem cutters who replied to you reinforce what everyone is trying to tell you; something has to give in your requirements. So you are looking for a orangish red stone now? I thought you are going the route of the reddish orange spessartite?

 

[PrecisionGem]

If I were you, and given your are going to pop into an inexpensive setting, I''d go for material called "Laser Gem" or CZ. You are not going to find the color you want, in the size you want for under $10,000

 

[Rockit]

I''m sorry, I just don''t see that the vendors told you anything that wasn''t already explained right here. In that light, I think that people who have tried to help you, including vendors you''ve contacted, ALL "know best." And, what collectively the group has indicated – some more pointedly than others – is that you are looking for a natural, pure red stone that does not exist in your extremely limited price range. Even with modifying colors, such a reddish stone is not going to be easy-as-pie to find. That''s not to say that there are not beautiful gems out there that will meet your criteria IF you let go of either "red" or "natural."

Perhaps, at this point, you might spend some time reading the colored stone threads, visiting online vendors, and researching a bit before "deciding" which color and material will best meet your modified desires. THEN begin your shopping in earnest. If it has to be a natural gem, I''d start looking at the garnet group focusing on almandite (almandine), pyrope, or spessartite (spessartine).

 

[iLander]

I just thought it would be fun for everyone to hear the response to my email inquiries. It wasn''t to imply that this forum isn''t helpful. Geez, tough room!

Yes, I intend to narrow down my search soon. I am still looking for a red stone, orangish undertones. I think the garnet family is a good start, judging by the response.

I will not resort to synthetic stones, I will compromise color first.

In my search efforts, I have come across red zircon (which was suggested by brazen). What is that like? Undertones? Ring stone or no?

 

[chrono]

I do not recommend any zircons as a ring stone as they are easily abraded, showing facet wear very quickly. Some red zircons are very dark while others show a lot of brown. Most zircons are heat treated only, with some exceptions.

 

[Rockit]

Not tough... just firm! Sorry about that.

If you can stretch the color requirements, Barry Bridgestock, has purplish red tanga garnet and reddish orange spessartite in the size and price you are looking for (I''ve got no preference over any other vendors, I just happen to know about those stones).