Which species is rarer??

[Agnesg]

Hello!

I would like to start a little collection. can I know, considering the highest grade possible, which is the rarest/hardest to obtain, from the list below?

Remember I am referring to the top specimen regardless of size. Free of all treatment, even gentle heat.

Cobalt blue spinel (contain cobalt)
Flame spinel (Burma)
Russia Alexandrite
Paraiba Tourmaline
Padparadscha
Demantoid (Russia)
Imperial a jade

Thanks!

 

[cm366]

Not the most seasoned poster by any means, but if you really mean that "regardless of size" I'd say all of those will be relatively easy to obtain in very small sizes except for the Russian Alexandrite. LD would be the authoritative source, but I think that true Russian Alex was only mined for a brief period about a hundred years ago, and would be almost unattainable today unless you can buy it from a private collector. Other than that, it should just be a matter of $$$.....

 

[chrono]

All those listed are obtainable in every size possible; they are not particularly difficult to obtain - the only question that remains is how much you are willing to pay.

 

[minousbijoux]

If you place a size criterion on your search, then it starts to become a little more challenging.

 

[cm366]

Agnesg,

It occurs to me that if you're truly looking for the rarest of the rare, you could do worse than starting a fancy coloured diamond collection... Top FCDs are probably more rare than any of the types on this list, and even collectors with very deep pockets can hunt for years to find the right stone for them. Kenny would be a good source for this - he's the expert!

 

[LD]

Here you go - my thoughts .........

Cobalt blue spinel (contain cobalt) - Obtainable but at a price
Flame spinel (Burma) - Obtainable but at a price
Russia Alexandrite - Impossible. You'll see tons for sale but it won't be Russian even if it's billed as such!
Paraiba Tourmaline - Obtainable but at a price (getting scarcer and prices are rising)
Padparadscha - Reasonably easy to get
Demantoid (Russia) - Not difficult to get
Imperial a jade - Don't know!

In terms of Alexandrite, because Russian is hardly ever on the market (and if it is, it's not a guarantee of best quality), you very rarely see it and then it's not always possible to be categorically sure that it's from Russia. If you were to ask about Alexandrite in general (top quality) then the answer is the same as for Paraiba Tourmaline and actually it's probably more difficult to get hold of.

Actually I disagree about FCDs. They are far more common than some on the above list. You need deep pockets for FCDs but you can always get hold of them. Compare that to Paraiba/Alexandrite and they're probably rarer.

 

[cm366]

Cool, thanks LD! That's an interesting point about FCDs, I was thinking the OP meant "top" stones as in clean vivd pure hues, and thought the annual world production of, say, top vivid reds or vivd pure blues was measured in single stones. Am I just thinking of larger pieces, and the smaller ones are readily available?

 

[Agnesg]

wow thats is a lot to digest!

I share LD thoughts on FCD, they seem to be readily available as long you are willing to pay. I have no interest in that.

padparadscha and cobalt spinel seem to be calling out to me. The only way to be certain if cobalt spinel contain cobalt is by lab test only? or does all intense blue spinel be termed cobalt spinel? Where can I find a decent size, say 2 carats, no heat Padparadscha or cobalt spinel?

Thanks

 

[chrono]

A fine cobalt spinel should not only have cobalt as its chromophore, but also have strong saturation with a pure blue hue and medium dark tone. It is best to have the lab verify it because synthetic blue spinels also set the Chelsea filter flaming red. A good lab will do other testing to make sure it is a natural spinel. There are some very pretty blue spinels not coloured by cobalt, but the finest cobalt blue rivals very fine blue sapphires. Only cobalt bearing spinels can be called as such. Other fine non cobalt bearing spinels should not be called that although I've seen vendors refer to it as cobalt coloured blue spinel. You must read the name and description very carefully. I've also seen plenty of unattractive cobalt bearing spinels so don't buy just based on the name.

 

[Fly Girl]

wow thats is a lot to digest!

I share LD thoughts on FCD, they seem to be readily available as long you are willing to pay. I have no interest in that.

padparadscha and cobalt spinel seem to be calling out to me. The only way to be certain if cobalt spinel contain cobalt is by lab test only? or does all intense blue spinel be termed cobalt spinel? Where can I find a decent size, say 2 carats, no heat Padparadscha or cobalt spinel?

Thanks

Wildfishgems specializes in untreated colored gemstones. Here is an excellent 3 ct cobalt blue spinel for $12k.

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/16062

At least you can begin looking at color here, even if you don't want to pay his prices.

 

[chrono]

Examples of fine cobalt bearing blue spinels.
http://www.collectorfinejewelry.com/buyers_guide_spinel.htm
http://www.palagems.com/featured_stones_v2.htm

 

[Agnesg]

Thank you fly girl, I am looking for one that is more intense . chrono's example is close! any idea if it's is available? How much per carat will something like that be?

 

[FrekeChild]

The one Chrono posted already sold.

There are a couple on Palagems' site though. Not sure on prices.

 

[slksapphire]

how fine a specimen of any of these are you looking for?

because truly fine, gem-quality can easily cost over $10,000 per carat. even for plain old blue sapphire.

 

[chrono]

I've talked to Pala about their cobalt spinels in the past and know that it is less saturated and not as pure a blue hue than pictured.

 

[LD]

Thank you fly girl, I am looking for one that is more intense . chrono's example is close! any idea if it's is available? How much per carat will something like that be?

It's almost impossible to give you a ball park figure because it (a) depends on the Vendor (b) how great the example is - you can see from the photos above how cobalt blue spinels can vary (c) your preference.

One thing I would ask is why you're buying? Are you buying because you think it will be an investment OR are you buying because you want a collection of great examples of gemstone species and you're not concerned with seeing an investment but you just want the best OR are you buying because you love the rarity and are attracted to the colour?

If (a) I would say that you're unlikely to realise an investment in your lifetime - can you live with that?

If (b) You might end up buying the best example but you actually might not like it!

If (c) Then you may not get the absolute best but you'll get close and will have something you will love and enjoy.

I have always bought with (c) in mind. However, some of my gems come nowhere near "best" of any description but I've bought them just because I'm attracted to them!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I might add red bixbite to your list.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Agnesg]

Thanks to all of you! You have set me thinking...
Let me go through them one at a time and I will come back with Pictures when I found "the one" !

 

[txgreeneyes]

I found this link awhile back. It's someone's list of top rare gemstones.

http://listverse.com/2007/12/02/top-10-rarest-gems/

Here's the list.

10. Jeremejevite
USD $2000/Carat

9. Black Opal
USD $2,355/Carat

8. Red Beryl Emerald
USD $10,000.00/Carat

7. Musgravite
USD $35,000/Carat

6. Grandidierite
USD $50,000/.5 Carat

5. Painite
USD $50-60,000/Carat

4. Blue Garnet
USD $1.5 Million/Carat

3. Serendibite
USD $1.8-2 Million/Carat

2. Red Diamonds
USD $2-2.5 Million/Carat

1. Jadeite
USD $3 + Million/Carat

 

[LD]

I found this link awhile back. It's someone's list of top rare gemstones.

http://listverse.com/2007/12/02/top-10-rarest-gems/

Here's the list.

10. Jeremejevite
USD $2000/Carat

9. Black Opal
USD $2,355/Carat

8. Red Beryl Emerald
USD $10,000.00/Carat

7. Musgravite
USD $35,000/Carat

6. Grandidierite
USD $50,000/.5 Carat

5. Painite
USD $50-60,000/Carat

4. Blue Garnet
USD $1.5 Million/Carat

3. Serendibite
USD $1.8-2 Million/Carat

2. Red Diamonds
USD $2-2.5 Million/Carat

1. Jadeite
USD $3 + Million/Carat

Can I add a word of caution in connection with the above? Please ignore the prices as I don't believe they are realistic. If you consider that I have 6 out of that top 10 and I don't believe that my stones are anywhere near the millions it throws a different light on it! I'm also not sure how relevant the list is. Would be good to hear from others?

 

[ChrisA222]

Wow!!! I own TWO stones that are worth over a million a ct!!! Thats right, two blue garnets!!

If anyones interested, I will happily give you a 50% discount-today only!!! Heck, not only will I discount 50%, I wil do a buy one get one free!!! So, Lets see. My bigger stone is 1.25ct, so that will be a bargain at only $937,500!! and that will include for FREE my other stone, which is about .50ct! That is a free stone worth 750,000!!!!

(mod-this is obviously a joke, not a real attempt at a sale, just so I dont get in trouble) lol

 

[txgreeneyes]

Wow!!! I own TWO stones that are worth over a million a ct!!! Thats right, two blue garnets!!

If anyones interested, I will happily give you a 50% discount-today only!!! Heck, not only will I discount 50%, I wil do a buy one get one free!!! So, Lets see. My bigger stone is 1.25ct, so that will be a bargain at only $937,500!! and that will include for FREE my other stone, which is about .50ct! That is a free stone worth 750,000!!!!

(mod-this is obviously a joke, not a real attempt at a sale, just so I dont get in trouble) lol

All right.. I want to see a picture of a blue garnet!!

I'm confused about the jadeite one. I know nothing about jade. My Mom owned a few pieces of jade jewelry. I'm not sure if it's real jade or fake or ??. She bought them in the 70s.

I don't understand those prices per carat either.

 

[chrono]

More than half on the list do not point to any examples, nor even a picture of the gem that commanded such pricing. Note that most of those with examples were of unusual size and colour and were auction items. Some are not necessarily very rare, nor should they command the pricing listed.

 

[chrono]

I'm confused about the jadeite one. I know nothing about jade. My Mom owned a few pieces of jade jewelry. I'm not sure if it's real jade or fake or ??. She bought them in the 70s. I don't understand those prices per carat either.

The grading of quality is different from regular gemstone with different grades assigned:
1 “A” grade jade is totally natural, untreated and has the highest true market value
2. “B” grade material has been treated with acid to remove "stains", which usually weakens the material as well, then filled with wax or resin and coated with a hardener to seal the stone.
3. “C” grade material has been artificially colour enhanced.
4. Grade B+C

Colour
As with all coloured gemstones, colour is the most important quality of jadeite with the same hue, tone and saturation factors. Top quality jadeite is pure emerald green with no brown or gray modifiers. The saturation should be so intense as to jump out at you from a distance, much like a neon stone would. A medium tone is ideal. The colour distribution should be completely even, without spotting or veins.

Clarity.
The finest should have no inclusions that are visible to the eye (black, dark green, brown or even white spots).

Translucency
The best jadeite is semi-transparent. Sometimes, even though the colour might be uneven or low in saturation, it can be priced very high if the transparency is very clear.

Texture
This is somewhat related to transparency. The finer the texture, the higher the transparency.

http://www.jewellery-hk.org/jadelab2.php
http://www.palagems.com/burma_jade_pt2.htm

 

[chrono]

Example of fine quality jadeite and historical pricing.

 

[ChrisA222]

Ill never understand Jade..and, I'll just stop right there.

Here's my blue Garnet. Keep in mind, the photo is under high mangnification, so you don't see the needles. The stone is eyelcean, and 1.67ct. It goes from a dark Sapphire blue (like in Dan's pic--he recut it for me) to an Amethyst purple. Funny story about that stone...when I got it from the vendor, I thought there was a mistake. It was at a point where I was buying a LOT of stones from a LOT of vendors, so when I opened packages, I never knew what was coming. Anyways, I saw the stone, and I am thinking...this is a mistake. I never ordered an Amethyst like this. I am going to have to return it....haha. Of course the stone looked completely different the following day, when it was blue! My stone is 1.67ct...so its worth millions!!

The second stone is currently on sale on ebay by Jeff Davies. Its 1.45ct and $895. So it comes with a discount of $2,174,000! Not bad...better hurry up and buy that one!

 

[minousbijoux]

I love those examples of jade, particularly the "glass" bangles. I love it when there is a combination of the glass and the green. Jade is so amazing, but is definitely one stone I'm too intimidated by treatments to dive into.

Also, is that a new tag line, Chrono? It should come in handy around here, heh heh!

 

[chrono]

Hi Minou,
I've had it for several weeks and heard it on NPR during an expert discussion about how the mind works and why. I thought it very interesting and it just stuck with me. It's such a simple explanation if you think about it - a self defense mechanism to soften the mental and emotional blow to the human psyche. It works equally well in life and gem related topics too.

 

[Brillance]

Advice needed about inclusions in sapphires

Hello, appreciate the article by LD, give us newbies very good insight and honest views into this dazzling world of colored stones.. And thank you Chrono for being so kind to ask me to start a new thread so that my question doesn't get buried in the mountain of posts.

This is my question :
A purple sapphire ring and a blue tarzanite ring caught my eye today and as I am totally clueless about colored stones, I asked for the cert for the sapphire (the tarzanite doesn't have one). The cert says fingerprints, crystals and feather...which are the inclusions in the stone. The stone also has a very beautiful deep color which like what you said may be pre-heated. The cert did indicate that "heating may be possible".

The shop says having finger prints and crystals are normal for natural stones. I was told that its a networks of tiny liquid-filled tubes that resemble human finger prints. And added that finger print inclusion are formed when sapphires re-crystallize to partially heal a fracture zone. Could you advise if this is so and now that likely the stone has been heated before, the price shouldn't be so expensive. The listed price is about Singapore $18,000 and after some big discounts which are very common here in our country, the selling is at $6600 which I still think seems very expensive but if this is like a piece of heirloom, I may just purchase it. The problem is that I don't know if this stone is a good one.

Btw, the tarzanite is 2.6C and the purple sapphire is 2.4C.

Looking forward to your kind advise.. And thank you..

Warmest,

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Advice needed about inclusions in sapphires

Hello, appreciate the article by LD, give us newbies very good insight and honest views into this dazzling world of colored stones.. And thank you Chrono for being so kind to ask me to start a new thread so that my question doesn't get buried in the mountain of posts.

This is my question :
A purple sapphire ring and a blue tarzanite ring caught my eye today and as I am totally clueless about colored stones, I asked for the cert for the sapphire (the tarzanite doesn't have one). The cert says fingerprints, crystals and feather...which are the inclusions in the stone. The stone also has a very beautiful deep color which like what you said may be pre-heated. The cert did indicate that "heating may be possible".

The shop says having finger prints and crystals are normal for natural stones. I was told that its a networks of tiny liquid-filled tubes that resemble human finger prints. And added that finger print inclusion are formed when sapphires re-crystallize to partially heal a fracture zone. Could you advise if this is so and now that likely the stone has been heated before, the price shouldn't be so expensive. The listed price is about Singapore $18,000 and after some big discounts which are very common here in our country, the selling is at $6600 which I still think seems very expensive but if this is like a piece of heirloom, I may just purchase it. The problem is that I don't know if this stone is a good one.

Btw, the tarzanite is 2.6C and the purple sapphire is 2.4C.

Looking forward to your kind advise.. And thank you..

Warmest,

Brilliance: since you're new, you may not know that asking folks to answer your specific questions on someone else's thread is generally frowned upon, since it appears as if you are taking something of someone else's and trying to make it your own. Since you started your own thread with your questions, you should probably expect to get your answers there - I know I just answered you there, and referred you back to this thread in order to answer your questions regarding stones as investment.