Which one would you rather have?

[bentzknee33]

Hello everyone. Ive been reading around as I’m shopping for an engagement ring and finally drilled my search down to two diamonds.
One diamond is an ideal cut diamond priced around 6700 and the other is one is what James Allen’s considers to be their signature true hearts and arrows cut diamond priced at 7400.

The key differences between the two is not only the cut but also the inclusions. The ideal cut diamond priced at 6700 has a cloud lying within the center of its table and the signature ideal cut diamond (7400) has a crystal in it as well as “clouds that are not shown”.

I hate that I can’t see them so I figured I’d ask you guys since you all have a bit more expertise than I do. With all that said, which one should I go with?

James Allen true hearts:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3466191

Blue nile ideal:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10291774

 

[TreeScientist]

Between the two, I like the one from James Allen. The Blue Nile Stone, while nice, is what we call a 60/60 style diamond. The low crown and larger table will produce more white light return at the expense of colored light return. Some people like this look, but you'll find that most people on these boards prefer the "tolk style" Ideal cut diamonds, which have smaller tables and higher crowns.

But if you're open to other suggestions, I would choose this one over the two that you're considering hands down:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5026966

It is simply gorgeous, so I would definitely put this one on hold before they add it to their True Hearts line.

 

[TreeScientist]

Also, be sure to ask for the "Pricescope Discount" when purchasing. Should save you a bit of money on the stone.

 

[bentzknee33]

Between the two, I like the one from James Allen. The Blue Nile Stone, while nice, is what we call a 60/60 style diamond. The low crown and larger table will produce more white light return at the expense of colored light return. Some people like this look, but you'll find that most people on these boards prefer the "tolk style" Ideal cut diamonds, which have smaller tables and higher crowns.

But if you're open to other suggestions, I would choose this one over the two that you're considering hands down:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5026966

It is simply gorgeous, so I would definitely put this one on hold before they add it to their True Hearts line.

Wow great find! How on earth is it cheaper though with the clarity grade being higher and not part of their signature cut line? Looking at the report and the looks of it shouldn’t it be more expensive?

 

[TreeScientist]

Wow great find! How on earth is it cheaper though with the clarity grade being higher and not part of their signature cut line?

Because it was recently added to the inventory (look at the GIA cert date, it was graded 6 days ago).

Let me fill you in on a little secret: James Allen slaps a premium of a few hundred dollars on the stones that they deem worthy of their "True Hearts" line. This is their surcharge for picking out well-cut diamonds within their large virtual inventory. They have people working for them that do essentially what we here on PriceScope do for people, which is combing through their listings and picking out the winners among the refuse. Depending on when their employees happen upon the stone, it could be a week to a few weeks between when they list a well-cut stone and when they identify it as a "True Hearts" diamond.

So, that is why this is a better stone, with a higher clarity grade, for a lower cost then the one you were considering: Because they haven't identified it yet and added their "True Hearts" premium to it.

So, like I said, reserve it now and pay for it before it jumps in price.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Excellent suggestion by @TreeScientist !! This beats out the other two stones by far!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5026966

 

[tyty333]

Your budget covers a Super Ideal branded stone...which I would rather have if I had your budget (better trade up policy)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984588.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986323.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986325.htm G colored

 

[TreeScientist]

Your budget covers a Super Ideal branded stone...which I would rather have if I had your budget (better trade up policy)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984588.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986323.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986325.htm G colored

The first one posted does look nice, but I'm not a fan of that feather. It's fairly visible between 10 and 11 o' clock in the video, and is a bit too close to the surface of the stone for my liking.

 

[Miki Moto]

@TreeScientist Hi! Your tip about charging a premium is great!
I would assume WF does this also.

Based on that, would it be better to just purchase virtual stones? I can see if WF or JA or CBI lasers their diamond with their logo (like HOF does) to mark it as their branded stone. But given they do not, is this then one big pool of diamonds and as you said... the expert PSers can help us search?

So much info! You guys are great! Just when I think i’m ready to buy (upgrading earrings), I read more info!

Thanks!

 

[TreeScientist]

@TreeScientist Hi! Your tip about charging a premium is great!
I would assume WF does this also.

Based on that, would it be better to just purchase virtual stones? I can see if WF or JA or CBI lasers their diamond with their logo (like HOF does) to mark it as their branded stone. But given they do not, is this then one big pool of diamonds and as you said... the expert PSers can help us search?

Thanks!

You'll hear different opinions on this here on PS. There's quite a WhiteFlash fan club here.

Short answer: Yes. All of these vendors charge a premium for vetting well cut diamonds. For that reason, I prefer finding well-cut virtual stones without the premium.

Long answer: I would argue that I find the premium justifiable for the SuperIdeal vendors, as the diamonds that they carry are all in-house and they can physically review each one. They're also taking a risk by owning the diamonds, so there's more equity going into each diamond and therefore the premium can be seen as acceptable. For James Allen, they still don't own any of their True Hearts diamonds, so there's no more risk for them involved in the stone. And they're not physically holding these diamonds, as they are still virtual inventory, so this can be seen as "virtual vetting." For these reasons, I see the True Hearts designation as more of a marketing gimmick than the vendors that actually carry in-house, vetted diamonds (like WhiteFlash or CBI).

But I don't think it's worth it in all cases to pay for branding. Sure, the premium that James Allen and the SuperIdeal vendors are charging for these well-cut stones is still MUCH less than the mark-up at your run of the mill Brick and Mortar retailers, who are ripping people off by grossly overcharging for crappy diamonds.

But if you can find a well-cut stone in virtual inventory that fits your desired specs and comes without any branding premium? Well, you've just won, and you now have a bit more money in your pocket.

Bottom line:
A well cut diamond IS a well cut diamond because it is a well cut diamond.
A well cut diamond IS NOT a well cut diamond because it has a brand slapped on it.

Edited to clarify the answer to your question: No, the diamonds that WF and CBI lists ARE NOT part of the big pool. These are diamonds that they own (as I outlined above) and are solely listed by them. BUT for James Allen True Hearts, in most cases the answer to that question is YES, they are still part of the large pool of virtual inventory.

 

[blueMA]

Yes, most of the modified dropshippers share a big pool of the world's diamond inventory. While I was making a huge list on my excel for my diamond picks, I noticed some that I considered earlier started popping up or get grabbed by another vendor (by JA, etc) at a premium, and it's not unusual to see a single stock being offered by 3-4 vendors at the same time and different prices.

 

[Miki Moto]

@TreeScientist Great answer and I do! I am not one to dig for stones, so I am leaning toward WF or HPD to do a custom order on my stones. I don’t mind paying a premium to know I have a quality item. Before the online branded super ideal vendors came about, it was just HOF and I paid the premium to know I got super ideals for my earrings (although I hate my HOF but that is a whole other story).

I am a bit more educated now and know why I don’t like my HOF so I think I will be safe with WF or HPD.

Okay... one last question on this thread if I may...
HOF lasers the HOF logo on the girdle of the stone in addition to the AGS number which I kind of like. I know WF and CBI do not do that. However, I was surfing on EBay to see resale prices and I noticed two rings sold by diamondsbylauren with CBI stones that do have the laser. Would you by chance know how that can be? I also sent a note to the HPD person I am working to see if that is an optional feature that can be added, for a fee of course.

What do you think having a logo etched on the diamond? Pro/cons? No value? Nice to have to know it is a super ideal branded stone?

Thank you again.

 

[blueMA]

Anyone can put an inscription on a diamond, including a personal message. Also, just because someone put an "H&A" inscription on a diamond doesn't mean that it's a true H&A.

 

[blueMA]

Would you by chance know how that can be? I also sent a note to the HPD person I am working to see if that is an optional feature that can be added, for a fee of course.

Ask whatever inscription you want on to be done when the cut diamonds get sent to a lab. However, I'd personally discourage this because I was put off by additional inscriptions present when I was considering some out there.

 

[TreeScientist]

@TreeScientist Great answer and I do! I am not one to dig for stones, so I am leaning toward WF or HPD to do a custom order on my stones. I don’t mind paying a premium to know I have a quality item. Before the online branded super ideal vendors came about, it was just HOF and I paid the premium to know I got super ideals for my earrings (although I hate my HOF but that is a whole other story).

I am a bit more educated now and know why I don’t like my HOF so I think I will be safe with WF or HPD.

Okay... one last question on this thread if I may...
HOF lasers the HOF logo on the girdle of the stone in addition to the AGS number which I kind of like. I know WF and CBI do not do that. However, I was surfing on EBay to see resale prices and I noticed two rings sold by diamondsbylauren with CBI stones that do have the laser. Would you by chance know how that can be? I also sent a note to the HPD person I am working to see if that is an optional feature that can be added, for a fee of course.

What do you think having a logo etched on the diamond? Pro/cons? No value? Nice to have to know it is a super ideal branded stone?

Thank you again.

I don't see any cons to the extra inscription if it makes you feel better about the branded stone. Some people think that inscription can reflect in the center of the diamond, but I believe that girdle reflections are really only an issue in stones with very large tables.

In my teenage years I used to spend way too much of my meager cashier paycheck for Abercrombie polos, in large part because I wanted that little moose. So I wouldve been SUPER PISSED if I didn't get that little moose with my Polo.

 

[bentzknee33]

Because it was recently added to the inventory (look at the GIA cert date, it was graded 6 days ago).

Let me fill you in on a little secret: James Allen slaps a premium of a few hundred dollars on the stones that they deem worthy of their "True Hearts" line. This is their surcharge for picking out well-cut diamonds within their large virtual inventory. They have people working for them that do essentially what we here on PriceScope do for people, which is combing through their listings and picking out the winners among the refuse. Depending on when their employees happen upon the stone, it could be a week to a few weeks between when they list a well-cut stone and when they identify it as a "True Hearts" diamond.

So, that is why this is a better stone, with a higher clarity grade, for a lower cost then the one you were considering: Because they haven't identified it yet and added their "True Hearts" premium to it.

So, like I said, reserve it now and pay for it before it jumps in price.

Thank you so much for your advice. Not only did I reserve it, but I also asked for the price scope discount and received $290 of the purchase price. I couldnt thank you enough! Thanks again for your help.

 

[TreeScientist]

Thank you so much for your advice. Not only did I reserve it, but I also asked for the price scope discount and received $290 of the purchase price. I couldnt thank you enough! Thanks again for your help.

You're welcome, glad we could help you find an excellent stone at a great price, and I'm glad you moved fast on it.

All I ask in return is that you name your firstborn after me...



... Jk Jk. That's the great part about contributing to this forum for me: Helping others find a great diamond that they'll love. I guess it helps my karma somehow haha.

Just pay it forward in some other area of your life. Take care brother, and definitely come back and post pics!

 

[cflutist]

@TreeScientist Hi! Your tip about charging a premium is great!
I would assume WF does this also.

Based on that, would it be better to just purchase virtual stones? I can see if WF or JA or CBI lasers their diamond with their logo (like HOF does) to mark it as their branded stone. But given they do not, is this then one big pool of diamonds and as you said... the expert PSers can help us search?

So much info! You guys are great! Just when I think i’m ready to buy (upgrading earrings), I read more info!

Thanks!

One of my five CBI diamonds was cut to order in 2014. I asked that the Brand and Logo be lasered on the girdle and they provided it.

 

[Miki Moto]

@cflutist Hi! That looks great. When I chatted with the HPD person, she told me their stones were not lasered with the logo, and she did not offer that as an option either. This is great to know. We were actually talking about the cut to order option. Hmmmm... I may need to inquire again.

Good to know you have five CBIs. I am leaning that way as I know they are cut well, and also cut their own. As I posted earlier, I am not a “dog for diamonds” person so I don’t plan to review a billion stones. My plan is to let them know the specs and get me two matching stones (for earrings).

 

[Miki Moto]

@cflutist By the way, did you purchase your CBI diamond (the one with the lasered CBI logo) from HPD or from a local dealer. I am wondering if the lasered logo is more a dealer specific option and HPD doesn’t offer that vs. a local CBI dealer.

 

[Gussie]

Whiteflash does not laser ACA into the girdle, but it is labeled as such on the AGS cert, fully identifying each ACA stone. There was a thread a while back explaining why this is. @Texas Leaguer may explain it or be able to link the previous thread.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Whiteflash does not laser ACA into the girdle, but it is labeled as such on the AGS cert, fully identifying each ACA stone. There was a thread a while back explaining why this is. @Texas Leaguer may explain it or be able to link the previous thread.

That is correct and the reasoning is this: The purpose of an inscription is to provide a simple way for the diamond to be identified as it makes it's way to market, and as a benefit to the consumer in easily verifying their own diamond any time they take it for service. Years ago we did inscribe a brand logo but today we choose to simply inscribe the lab number as a unique identifier which ties it to a specific lab report. For our brand we provide an AGSL proprietary report format (A CUT ABOVE) which ties that report and it's unique number to the specifics as detailed on the report, which includes the brand. We therefore see it as unnecessary to inscribe anything more than the report number physically on the diamond. For example, if an ACA diamond is a DEF IF/VVS it will have a proprietary report from AGSL as A CUT ABOVE Collection Series. It is unnecessary for us to inscribe ACA, or Collection Series, or a company logo physically on the diamond. It is all cross referenced via the lab report. And now that the main labs have online report verification functionality, should the paperwork ever be unavailable it is possible for anyone get all the details on the diamond by typing that number into the report verification tool of the corresponding lab.

 

[Miki Moto]

@Texas Leaguer Hi! Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. Plus, since I've been on PS, I see how many people trade-in/upgrade diamonds which is something I have never done or considered in the past, but is an interesting idea. With that thought, I can see what would a non-HOF vendor want with my "HOF" laser diamond! They will need to polish that logo off to re-sell it. I guess the trade is better off if no one lasers their logo on any diamond given the stone itself gets re-cycled. I actually thought a laser inscription was a good differentiator, but now I see it is not, and certainly not needed on the stone itself.

Thank you again for the explanation.