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Which of these Princess diamonds for an e-ring?

HerBoo

HerBoo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
8
Hey PriceScope!

I have been doing a lot of reading and research on this great site; it has proven to be an invaluable resource. I finally am feeling confident enough with my diamond knowledge to make the investment, but know that many of you still know worlds more about diamonds than me, so I would like your help and advice.

After looking at enough pictures and information, I think I want the following specs:
Carat: 1.4-1.6
Color: F or G
Clarity: VSS1 or VSS2
Cut: Ideal, Excellent, or Very Good

I am pretty confident in these specs being what I am after, but am going to go look at a lot of diamonds next week to get an in-person visual of these options (and probably one step down as a comparison). I think I can judge a lot of these pretty well based on the photos I've seen, with the exception of cut. Would you agree that cut is very hard to judge based on photos?

Currently, my top choice is this: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.45-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-247172
Although this looks like a killer deal: http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=6H5F9569
And this looks like a very nice diamond, but more than I would like to spend: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4362183-1.40-carat-Princess-diamond-F-color-VVS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4362183

I already have a ring setting picked out from Shane Co.
http://www.shaneco.com/Jewelry-Catalog/Product-Detail.aspx?X=41045139

screen_shot_2014-02-05_at_11.png
 
Cut is easy to judge based on the right kind of photos.

After you go looking at diamonds in person, you'll probably find that VVS is completely unnecessary.
 
RE: "Killer Deal" do a little research here on PS about the difference between the prices of diamonds graded by the EGL and the AGSL before jumping to that conclusion... In my experience, the accuracy of the two gemological laboratories is galaxies apart.
 
RE: "Killer Deal"

One diamond is graded by the EGL, and the other is graded by the AGSL, conduct a little research here on PS regarding the perceived difference between the two gemological laboratories ;))
 
Todd Gray -
I realize there is a difference, but what I have seen is a 10-15% difference. Taking the 115% of the cost of the second one brings it to under $7,000 as compared to just over $9,000 for my top choice which seems like quite a savings to me. Is this not an accurate view of it?

Do you have any opinions on my #1 option?

JulieN -
I have read a lot that many people don't find the necessity for VVS, but I have a very good eye and am particular (part of my living is inspecting fine detail) so I'm guessing I will want a slightly better clarity than most. I agree though that it would be nice if I discovered that I am okay with a VS clarity, which is why I will definitely look at those in addition to the VVS. Sure would save me some money!

Thanks for the advise so far Todd and Julie!
 
HerBoo|1391619721|3608414 said:
Todd Gray -
I realize there is a difference, but what I have seen is a 10-15% difference. Taking the 115% of the cost of the second one brings it to under $7,000 as compared to just over $9,000 for my top choice which seems like quite a savings to me. Is this not an accurate view of it?

Do you have any opinions on my #1 option?
Click to expand...

It's an accurate consumer perspective on the price difference, but from a trade perspective experience dictates that the price difference between EGL graded diamonds and those graded by either the GIA or AGS is higher than 15% because of differences in their standards for grading color and clarity... and diamonds tend to sell for what they're worth, as a measured commodity there aren't any "deals" per se, just diamonds which are generally sold for exactly what they are worth, based upon their characteristics... the reality is that any diamond dealer is going to charge whatever they can for each diamond based upon its characteristics.

It's no secret that James Allen happens to be very competitive in terms of pricing, so is Solomon brothers, and both vendors sell a variety of diamond qualities in terms of cut quality... so think of them as Home Depot and Lowe's as they both offer a variety of product qualities at reasonable prices, in an effort to appeal to the widest market share possible.

Now there is a price increase which occurs between the 1.49 - 1.50 carat marks, so in order to provide an accurate price comparison, you'll need to hop over the 1.50 carat mark to compare prices, and if we want to get a little closer to evening things out, we should try to find something of the same color and clarity grade, such as this 1.52 carat, G-color, VVS-2 clarity princess cut from James Allen http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.52-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-215163 which is selling for $10,430 with an overall cut grade of AGS Ideal-0 for Light Performance.

At first glance this diamond appears to be significantly more expensive than the EGL graded option of "the same" color and clarity grade, but then you have to consider that there are a lot of trade members (including myself) who feel that the EGL is "extremely generous" in their grading, so who knows what the clarity and color grade of the diamond might be if it were graded by the GIA or AGS... then there is the very good polish and symmetry grade and the 7% crown height, which is a factor of diamond cut quality which also is taken into consideration in the valuation of a diamond... at the end of the day, maybe the diamond is just selling for what it's worth, that's all I'm saying... I suspect that the price difference between the two diamonds is due to the two diamonds being priced based upon their individual characteristics and not because one is a "deal" and the other is not.

I'm not sure whether I can comment specifically on the forum regarding the cut quality of the two diamonds as a trade member, I was merely trying to ensure that you were aware of the price difference between EGL / GIA - AGS graded diamonds and it seems that you are aware of the concept, although you might not be fully aware that sometimes that price difference is as much as 30 - 40 - 50% depending on who you ask or which trade article you read... it varies depending on the perspective of the author.
 
Todd is correct. When I was at the JCK Jewelry show in Las Vegas a couple of years ago Martin Rapaport gave one of the educational sessions. Going from memory, so I may be off a few percent or two, the spread between AGS and GIA with GIA being 100 was +3 - 5% (AGS was more expensive). The discount between GIA and EGL US was 28%. For EGL Europe and EGL Israel the discount was more in the 48 to 50% range as those labs are even more loose than EGL US.

That is what professionals in the business think of their bogus paper.

Just sayin.

Wink
 
Thanks for the trade insight, Todd and Wink. I will limit my search to GIA and AGL diamonds.
 
Yes, we went and looked at rings months ago and picked out this setting, and looked at it with a princess cut resting on top and she loved the look.

Budget is about 10k, although if I could get a good looking diamond in that size for 8k that would be great!

What does that James Allen diamond have over the one I posted?
The main differences I see are:
Yours Mine
1.51ct instead of 1.45ct
VS2 instead of VVS1
71% table VS 64.7% table
39.4° crown VS 35.5° crown
Very Good VS Ideal symmetry

Am I incorrect in thinking that everything about the one I picked is superior, except for the 0.06ct difference? Just trying to learn here! :read:
 
HerBoo|1391657959|3608980 said:
Yes, we went and looked at rings months ago and picked out this setting, and looked at it with a princess cut resting on top and she loved the look.

Budget is about 10k, although if I could get a good looking diamond in that size for 8k that would be great!

What does that James Allen diamond have over the one I posted?
The main differences I see are:
Yours Mine
1.51ct instead of 1.45ct
VS2 instead of VVS1
71% table VS 64.7% table
39.4° crown VS 35.5° crown
Very Good VS Ideal symmetry

Am I incorrect in thinking that everything about the one I picked is superior, except for the 0.06ct difference? Just trying to learn here! :read:
Click to expand...


Only real difference in terms of stats is that mine has a smaller table and if you look at the diamonds you can see it has a higher crown (crown angle has that too). Which usually means more fire. Which is nice when you are in the sun. :naughty: It's a matter of the TYPE of light return this one will have.

Size is about the same (compare spread not carat weight, mine is a hair bigger, but it's not a very visible difference).
You will not be able to tell the difference between a VVS and a VS when eyeclean. And that VS is eyeclean.
And the VG symmetry is not having a visual or performance impact so those are a wash too.


But the important part is. If you watch the videos of both of them. Mine look brighter. Has less dark spots. And the dark spots are smaller.
Now I could be wrong. But I think mine is going to ASET out better. Of course they are BOTH AGS0. So it's going to be close.

So what the real difference is: More fire in the performance, smaller dark zones of contrast and $300 in your pocket.

So the solution? JA gives you three ASETs. But both on hold. Ask for an ASET. Buy the one with the better ASET. 8)

They'll ask you for a third: So you can do this one as the third: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.53-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-255209
 
Gypsy- Love your posts!! Very educational!
 
gregchang35|1391660275|3609004 said:
Gypsy- Love your posts!! Very educational!
Click to expand...

Thank you Greg. I really appreciate that. :read:
 
Thank you very much Gypsy.

I have requested ASET images, so I should be able to pick soon!

BTW, your cat is very cute. =)
 
Gypsy|1391654895|3608932 said:
Did she pick that setting or did you?
Click to expand...

That's a very specific style that most people will either love or hate. Did she tell you that's what she wants?

ETA: I see I should read more carefully before posting... :roll: Glad she loves it!
 
HerBoo|1391699669|3609208 said:
Thank you very much Gypsy.

I have requested ASET images, so I should be able to pick soon!

BTW, your cat is very cute. =)
Click to expand...


Post them when you have them!

And yes, he is a cutie isn't he? He thanks you for your compliment!
 
well they are both absolutely stunning.
 
Anyone have opinions/reasoning why one is better than the other?

Thanks for all the help!
 
They are both nice...I would play with the 360 degree videos and try to figure put what faceting pattern you like better.
One has a thinner X and one has a thicker X. Also, call JA and have a gemologist talk you through them. They can probably
Give you some insight on what they see in person.

Edit - I went and played with them...I do like the smaller looking table on the 1.45 but I think its got more contrast than the other
stone. I actually like the 1.51 better. Still would like to hear what the gemologist says.
 
I like the cut of the 1.45 a little better for the smaller table but the 1.51 is about 5% bigger.
 
They are both lovely. I have a preference for the 1.51 from the video, I just like the way it reflects light and where the contrast zones are. Plus it's got more spread.

The 1.45 is gorgeous though too. And it has a smaller table.

I don't think there is a wrong choice.

Did the gemologist have a preference for one over the other?
 
Asked the gemologist, they prefer the 1.45c (247172):
since either diamond will look beautiful, however to tip the scale a bit the Gemologist gave a nod towards diamond 247172. This diamond, in person, slightly exceeded diamond 283685 in its light performance.
Click to expand...
 
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