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Which is a better OEC between these two?

seedslinger

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
Having trouble determining which is the best buy or even the best stone. They are priced the exact same amount.

Stone 1: .93ct, L, S12, 6.57x6.40x3.4, EGL, USA, Depth=53%, Table=47, polish and sym = good.
Stone 2: 1.22ct, O-P, VS1, 6.36x6.51x4.57, GIA, Depth=70%, Table=50, polish good, sty fair.

I have my opinion, but I would like to hear it from the experts!

Thanks
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Can't tell you anything without pictures at all. With old cuts so much depends on the faceting of the diamond. We need head on shots, close up, of the faceting.

Is the SI2 eyeclean?
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
Well, one is super shallow and one is really deep- they're both extremes actually. It's possible they're still relatively attractive stones- it happens even with oddball numbers *sometimes*- but the cream of the crop type antique cut? No, that's simply very unlikely. And frankly, there's a lot of weird, wonky antique cuts out there that are, IMO, not that lovely. I'd keep looking unless there's something particularly that attracts you to one or the other.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I have an overly deep odd ball... here's my sarin... my stone is beautiful though.

file.jpg

At 67.9% depth it's WAY deeper than even my asscher :sick: But it was also recut for performance and faceting. It's a beautiful stone... but it faces up like a 50 pointer. The numbers on mine are similar enough to your second stone, that I would get a picture of it and see....

But I do agree with LGK, I would keep my expectations in check because while odd ball's do occur... they aren't the norm so you might be looking at two wonky diamonds.

The second stone could also be the candidate for a small recut and repolish to make it shine.
 

stci

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
2,514
Buy an Old Cut Diamond with specifications is an error IMO. You have to see it clearly and fall in love with it. The only points that are really important for me are small table and small culet. But for that points, it's only matter of taste.

When you look an old cut diamond (particularly OEC) and you can see tons of colors, brilliants, flashes and your heart make boom boom you have found THE old cut! :love:
 

seedslinger

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
Thanks for all the replies.

I do realize that they are both extremes and stones that don't present well on paper. Obviously, this is where seeing the stone in the flesh is so critical. Problem is that finding OEC seems to be difficult, so shopping online helps.

My thought is that the EGL diamond probably grades more like a SI2, M. In which case I would prefer the better clarity and and even the depth of the GIA stone.

Here are the photos.

Stone #1 first, then #2.

EGLUSA.jpg

GIA.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Yeah, that one is a dud. The center is too dark and the faceting is unattractive. PASS on the EGL stone.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Oh. Those are two different stones? Oh yeah. Both suck, frankly. I'd pass on both of them.
 

seedslinger

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
Gypsy|1314672229|3005070 said:
Yeah, that one is a dud. The center is too dark and the faceting is unattractive. PASS on the EGL stone.
Thats why I post here....I could not tell that!
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
I would definitely pass on the GIA stone.

The photo of the EGL stone isn't great, so it's hard for me to say yay or nay to that one.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
seedslinger|1314673175|3005087 said:
Gypsy|1314672229|3005070 said:
Yeah, that one is a dud. The center is too dark and the faceting is unattractive. PASS on the EGL stone.
Thats why I post here....I could not tell that!
I thought it was two pics of the same stone. The EGL one looks out of round and wonky, I can't see the faceting in the center well, but I'd pass on it just based on the girdle and the chip I can see.

What's your budget and what do you want?
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Neither are striking to me- but the EGL pic is not a great one of the faceting.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
Gypsy|1314673135|3005086 said:
Oh. Those are two different stones? Oh yeah. Both suck, frankly. I'd pass on both of them.
Yep. That darkness under the table of the deep one is exactly what you get with an unattractive deep stone. A nailhead. It's my least favorite effect with a lousy-cut OEC. Also I've noticed with OWD (that's where these are from, right? looks like their pics) Adam tends to turn the really shallow stones at an angle so you can't get a good look at the facet pattern, which is weird. Could be a coincidence I guess. But that chip is a big one so yep, pass- and it does look a little glassy to me anyway even from the side.

Oh and for sure you can find old cuts with numbers all over the place. It's just... how do you weed through them online when you can't see them? Personally, I eliminate most of the ones with the oddball depths, also because of the lack of face up size on the really deep ones, not just because of performance. I mean, you gotta do it *somehow* if you can't see them. I tend to look for depth of around 59%-62%, or if price is right up to maybe 65%. But at the higher depths it would have to be a really good deal! And tables from 45%-59%, with a strong preference for the smaller tables. For sure there's good looking stones that don't fit that criteria, but with a big list like, say Old World Diamonds has, you need to have some process of elimination. And obviously even using that (loose) criteria, there will still be some duds sneak by. Thus, a good return policy is an absolute must.

Another good idea, is talking to the vendor. Some can be awesomely helpful in terms of finding cherry cut antique stones for you. Adam at the aforementioned OWD is great- I had him pull a number of stones and then tell me which he thought was the fieriest and eye clean. He did a great job finding a killer cut one for me.

Also Jewels by Erica Grace tend to go for a smaller group of stones, which I presume they choose for being good performers. My mom bought a 1.30 ct from them that was quite shallow, but was still lively. I mean, putting it right up next to my virtually identical OEC (that is more standard, well cut numbers) you can see that hers is a little lazier in terms of performance, but not enough to make me turn my nose up at it.

Of course if you're shopping in person who cares about numbers- go with what your eyes prefer, but if you're not able to do that, even in antique cuts stats are helpful IMO.
 

seedslinger

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
Gypsy,

I am looking for something >6.00mm, so around 1ct., with >S2 clarity. Color is the price driving factor. I would like to stay under $4K...I know, I know...I am asking for alot of diamond for the price, but I am looking at lower colors...J-0-P

Do you think the GIA stone above could be recut, to around 1ct.?
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1002&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=20
No pic, the numbers look like it may be a possibility though.

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1960&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=21
This one's kind of deep but the face up size isn't terrible for the depth, and the faceting looks nice from this pic at least.

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=880&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=21
This one looks like a good example of a transitional cut, probably has a nice quilty looking facet pattern face on. Probably lacks fire and is balanced more towards brilliance but, not necessarily. Depends on the crown height.

Those are all under one carat, but are over 6mm. 6.5mm is a good face up for a carat. If you're fine with 6mm, I'd look at the shy-of-a-carat weight range.
 

kelpie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
2,362
I wouldn't pay retail for either stone...looks like they are from old world diamonds? I would totally snag them if they were a steal for under 1k though. Neither just looks that great...my pet peeve is old cuts that go dark in the center. I know it can often just be camera reflection but the facets reflected in the table aren't my bag either, baby.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-ENGAGMENT-PLAT-VS-J-1-10-CT-/350488169741?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DMRU-281%252BUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D350486559677%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2440367448231288028

This one was listed at 2500 just a few days ago. I'd best offer at 2500-3000 and buy this one. I'd have it sent straight to an appraiser to make sure it bares out.

If it appraised at K-L SI1 (eyeclean) with no big chips I'd be thrilled at the deal I got.
 
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