Where to get loose diamonds?

[dprc]

I know here is a diamonds search tool on this site. But is there no possibility to buy a 2 carat gia directly in Antwerpen or any other wholeseller to safe money?

Thanks alot

 

[Dancing Fire]

I know here is a diamonds search tool on this site. But is there no possibility to buy a 2 carat gia directly in Antwerpen or any other wholeseller to safe money?

Thanks alot

No!

 

[KarenD]

DancingFire, why do you say no?
If you know of a dealer, you can try get it at a cheaper price. Most stones on commercial websites are heavily hiked up.

 

[kb1gra]

DancingFire, why do you say no?
If you know of a dealer, you can try get it at a cheaper price. Most stones on commercial websites are heavily hiked up.

Says who?

Industry reports released yearly indicate that the markup on loose stones is actually quite small. Blue Nile's financials are public information and their margin is something like 12%.

Compare that to the luxury clothing market where standard markup is 350%.

 

[denverappraiser]

Antwerp is a nice place but what makes you think much of anything is less expensive there?

I, of course, know the story. Diamonds are mined by a giant exploitation company in Africa, who sells them to cutters in Belgium, who apply their magic and then sell them through a chain of other dealers ending up virtually unchanged at your neighborhood store for many times the price. The closer you can get to the source, the better the price for the same thing. Everybody's got a guy, and that guy can help get closer to the top of the food chain through his/her connections.

By and large, this is NOT the way the modern diamond business looks. Especially not for loose diamonds.

Mining is mostly done by one of five large companies distributed about the world. At the moment, DeBeers isn't even the largest.
Cutting is mostly done by giant factories in India. I'm talking about companies with thousands of workers. Boutique cutters in Belgium are struggling.
Trading, especially at the wholesale level, is done over the Internet and delivery is done by FedEx. That has a great leveling effect for anywhere that gets FedEx service, which is pretty much everywhere. There's no particular advantage for a trader to set up shop in Antwerp, India, Israel, or any other particular address. There's actually some pretty good reasons to be elsewhere. Traders choose locations to be convenient for their customers, not their suppliers.
The biggest effect location has is on taxes and overall infrastructure. That means things like banking services, shipping access, security and the like. Not surprisingly, low tax places (US, Dubai, Hong Kong for example) are popular places to shop and high tax places (UK, Singapore, Japan) have troubles. Low wage places (Sudan, India, Kenya, North Korea) tend to have other issues that make things difficult for both merchants and customers.

So where's the BEST place to shop? That depends on what you're looking for. The cheapest prices tend to be in the secondary market with 'used' merchandise and unsophisticated sellers. I'm talking about garage sales here. Obviously there are some problems with this marketplace, not the least of which is that it requires a lot of time, a lot of luck, and some decent skills on the shoppers part. There are risks that aren't present in other markets and you've got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. It's not for everyone. In terms of new production merchandise, especially with high quality goods, the lowest prices these days seem to be with the US internet. That has some issues too, especially if you're not in the US yourself but it's a well trod path and it's not difficult to work through it safely. That's largely what the advisers here in the forum are good at navigating and you'll get good guidance if you care to take it.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Excellent post by DenverAppraiser.

I would add that internet shopping has squeezed retail margins to razor thin levels by creating a hyper-competitive marketplace where smart consumers today have all the power. This competition has resulted in not only excellent selection and pricing, but more information and transparency, as well as a host of benefits such as buyback and trade-up guarantees that were rarely if ever a part of the traditional value proposition.

 

[WinkHPD]

DancingFire, why do you say no?
If you know of a dealer, you can try get it at a cheaper price. Most stones on commercial websites are heavily hiked up.

May I ask what you consider to be "Heavily hiked up"?

Wink

Edited to add, I should have read further, Neil has posted an excellent answer.

 

[KarenD]

I still stand by what i wrote earlier as i have personal experience in the matter.
I can even add that most websites selling diamonds are owned by diamond dealers and the price listed is generally not the final price. If you are looking to save $$ feel free to send them an offer on a specific stone and many times they will accommodate you and give you that discount.

 

[kb1gra]

I still stand by what i wrote earlier as i have personal experience in the matter.
I can even add that most websites selling diamonds are owned by diamond dealers and the price listed is generally not the final price. If you are looking to save $$ feel free to send them an offer on a specific stone and many times they will accommodate you and give you that discount.

Uh huh, okay.

12 posts says I totally believe you over dealers on this board who have been here for a decade...

I do suggest that you call up bluenile or james allen and "make them an offer" see what you get, please post the transcript here.

 

[denverappraiser]

Karen,

To be sure, websites selling diamonds online are ALL owned by diamond dealers, pretty much by definition. They set their own prices and dealers are welcome to advertise and negotiate however they like. It doesn't hurt to ask and yes, you might even get a bone, but I have to agree with the above that they generally are pretty firm in their pricing, especially the big players. One of the things about the giant databases is that a dealer who sets their price with a lot of 'wiggle room' in it isn't going to get the phone call at all. The negotiation is over before it starts because the customer has already moved on to the next dealer. They've learned. They're making their living at this, and it works better to supply the real price right out of the gate. This is different from a traditional jeweler where you need to show up in the store and ASK in order to get the first price. The negotiation has already begun and the customer is standing right there. Not all storefronts want to play this game either, but what you describe is much more common in that environment.

 

[KarenD]

kb1gra,
My twelve posts certainly do not define the many years of experience i have, working in the diamond field.

I also do not try to promote my business here as many others do. I have answered truthfully and without ulterior motives.

 

[MollyMalone]

I know here is a diamonds search tool on this site. But is there no possibility to buy a 2 carat gia directly in Antwerpen or any other wholeseller to safe money?
Thanks alot

A "wholesaler" who sells to the general public is not a true wholesaler... although there are dealers who sell, at different price points, to both those in the trade & to John Q. Public.

The chief reason why my late father-in-law, who was a diamond broker here in NYC (before he semi-retired to a retail position), refused to sell diamonds to a consumer, not even a friend, neighbor or others within his social circles
* Sales tax should be charged to retail purchasers in NY, and those monies must then be forwarded to the tax authorities. That is not the case with sales made to those in the trade, who hold sales tax-exemption certificates, so selling only to the trade eliminates the extra bookkeeping & rigmarole attendant to retail sales.

Additionally,
* Retail customers typically require lots more time and "hand-holding" (his words), and are far less likely to buy in bulk, be a repeat customer. So even if he had been willing to sell to a consumer, it would not have been at the same price charged to those in the trade. (I also think, but am less certain of my recollection in this regard, that he was concerned that "cutting out the middleman" would not be viewed with great favor by his retail jeweler customers)
* Like PSers who have been here for awhile, my FIL knew of some horror stories about consumers getting ripped off by so- called wholesalers & he never wanted to be suspected of doing that.

General fyi: I've seen some seeming experts on business or other, diamond-related web sites aver that Blue Nile's selling price for loose stones is about 18% above what BN pays for them. But that's a mistaken interpretation of Blue Nile's SEC filings that have been reflecting a gross profit margin of 18-19%.
It is impossible to glean from BN's financial filings he mark-up on loose stones because BN does not split off and delineate financial info about their loose stones; it's lumped together with that pertaining to everything else, their mountings, semi-mounts, and completed jewelry merchandise (about 1/3 of BN's US sales nowadays are not engagement-related) -- all of which are typically marked up to an appreciably greater percentage than loose stones. Plus, "gross profit margin" is a precise term of accounting that excludes some major expenses necessary to operate a business, but which must play a role in BN's pricing calculations. Lastly, BN does not have a uniform mark-up percentage on loose diamonds regardless of the size and caliber of the stone.

 

[MollyMalone]

DancingFire, why do you say no?
If you know of a dealer, you can try get it at a cheaper price. Most stones on commercial websites are heavily hiked up.

May I ask what you consider to be "Heavily hiked up"?
Wink

I too was wondering about that. "Heavily hiked up" to me suggests twice, and maybe more, the price paid to bring it into inventory, but we're in the dark as to what her definition is.

kb1gra,
My twelve posts certainly do not define the many years of experience i have, working in the diamond field.

I also do not try to promote my business here as many others do. I have answered truthfully and without ulterior motives.

Because of your query re pink stone eternity rings, it didn't occur to me that you might be in the trade. But now that you've said this, let me kindly suggest you read the PS policies re Trade members & the additional info linked on the Polcies page, and then take on the Trade badge.
https://www.pricescope.com/content/forum-policies
Also, please be assured that sharing info and your perspectives as a Trade member on the forum boards does not constitute "promoting" your own business, assuming you abide by the rules-guidelines described on the Policies page.