Where can I see some ideal cut colored diamonds?

[echelon6]

For example, where can I see some AGS000 vivid yellows?

Also has anyone heard of going down the route of purchasing a synthetic yellow from Gemesis or DNEA and having it recut by someone like BGD into AGS000 spec? I would love to find out details or pics of a project similar to this!

 

[distracts]

What we think of as ideal cut is meant to maximize white light return, which decreases the apparent face up color of a diamond. Thus it is rare that you find colored diamonds cut to colorless diamond ideal cut standards, as a higher color grade is jeopardized by that form of cutting and a higher color grade imparts a higher value to the diamond. There are excellently cut colored stones, but, as Kenny would tell you, they are very rare and even with examining pictures you'll still have to return a few. With all of tha said, I'd try Leibish or Diamonds By Lauren. There really aren't many places that specialize in colored diamonds.

 

[yssie]

EightStar cut a blue, I think, a long time ago?

Like Distracts says you won't find many - like she says w/ FCDs colour is king, and brilliant cuts like RB that are designed to maximize brightness by minimizing path length through the stone are working in direct opposition to that goal of concentrating colour. W/ D-Z stones the labs grade body colour, as if a little chip is knocked off, but FCDs are graded for colour face-up so cut can change what colour grade a stone earns - which can change its value significantly.

DBL has a line of precision-cut cushions, they're cut by the same cutter who cuts GOG's AV line but w/ different goals. CCL posted an interesting comparison of how cut can affect face-up colour in this old thread ([URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/[/URL]) - both stones are GIA Y/Z, ~1ct. Not a perfect comparison since photography is different but the posts are definitely worth a read





This from another forum so I don't think I can link - the stone chipped and had to be recut
Edit* pics are on the DBL site which I definitely can link http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-318ct-fancy-yellow-vvs2-radiant-large-sparkle-gia-r4313





Hopefully Kenny will see this soon!

 

[echelon6]

Thanks, I totally understand the idea that cutting colored stones will be for a different goal than cutting white stones, but that's precisely what I want.

I want a vivid yellow that gives off fire and brilliance like a AGS000 H&A. A bit unique I know. The way I see it, if I get a vivid yellow synthetic (not too expensive now that Gemesis and their ilk are in full production and selling direct to the public) and have it recut into a AGS000 spec, it will still be at least intense yellow, but also be brilliant, firey and H&A and all that. That's exactly what I want. Thoughts? how would I go about achieving this?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting discussion!
Yssie, thanks for posting our photos.


Distracts makes some valid points about how Ideal cut diamonds are brightest ( adding white light)- however we can add context.
For example- a D color is "brighter" than a J color. However due to the way a diamond uses the light, some observers will prefer the J.
Do they love a less bright object- or are their perceptions of what brightness is different?

If we extend that idea about how brightness is affected by human perception down to Vivid Yellow, we'll get to the same conclusion: Bright white is technically "brighter" than bright yellow- yet some will perceive the yellow to be more "bright"- for lack of a better word.

The closest we've come to something meeting this description was the stone from this GIA report- once the diamond gets a little darker, it becomes Fancy Light Yellow, and there's no cut grade.


The medium blue certainly had an effect on the perceived color of that stone- but in a UV poor environment, it showed a fair amount of yellow. However compared to a well cut fancy color model Y-Z Modified Brilliant Cushion, for example, the round looked pale

I know you asked about AGS0 cut grade stones echelon6- however I do not believe AGSL is dong fancy color grading- hopefully someone can confirm or deny this.

 

[kenny]

Thanks, I totally understand the idea that cutting colored stones will be for a different goal than cutting white stones, but that's precisely what I want.

I want a vivid yellow that gives off fire and brilliance like a AGS000 H&A. A bit unique I know. The way I see it, if I get a vivid yellow synthetic (not too expensive now that Gemesis and their ilk are in full production and selling direct to the public) and have it recut into a AGS000 spec, it will still be at least intense yellow, but also be brilliant, firey and H&A and all that. That's exactly what I want. Thoughts? how would I go about achieving this?

Good luck on that one!

As has been said FCDs are cut to save weight and maximize color strength.
Light performance takes a back seat, and is often sent to the back of the bus.

Still there is a tiny chance you may run across one that happend to end up with decent light performance even thought it was cut for weight and color strength. (But AGS 0 is going to be a real needle in the haystack.)

I have 12 FCDs, a few few decent light performance, but when I recently added a top-cut round to the collection, it made me want to send a few of the colored guys out for recuts even though they are so tiny already.

You could contact a vendor you trust and tell them to search around, and wait for one eventually show up.
Or you could buy a large Vivid and send it to someone like Eightstar or Brian Gavin or DiaGem to be recut for light performance.

If I was going to buy a round with the intention of recutting it, I'd insist the seller send me a side view picture of the diamond.
Then get a side view of what is widely agreed to to be good light performance; then look for a yellow round that has the most similar proportions.

Yes recutting may turn a vivid into an intense, but that is less likely with cuts like round or emerald, unless they got their color from being terribly deep.
Rounds and emerald cuts, unlike the Radiant cut, don't keep the light bouncing back and forth so many times through the colored body material to amp up their color.

Oh and you really have to make up your mind between synthetic and natural.
The price difference is dramatic.

 

[echelon6]

Thanks for the useful info

Yes i've definitely made up my mind and I want to get a synthetic for recutting. (naturals cost too much at the moment)

What I'm after is if there's any pictures of ideal cut vivid colored diamonds, I would love to see them. I want to see how the scintillating fire looks in a vivid colored H&A round diamond. If I see that it looks as awesome as I imagine, I'm definitely going ahead with my project.

What I plan to do is buy a vivid yellow from Gemesis or DNEA and have it recut to AGS000 spec (not after AGS to certify it as they won't certify synthetics, just after the diamond to be cut to that specification).

Any pictures out there for me to see what i'm dealing with?

 

[kenny]

I don't know whether Eightstar cuts simulates, or if the quality is still as high as it was before Richard von Sternberg sold it to Seng, but call them.

Seng Jewelers
453 Fourth Street
Louisville, KY 40202
Phone: 502-585-5109
Toll Free: 888-414-SENG

SNIP:
In March 1999, EightStar bought a 1.02-ct. fancy vivid yellow diamond to recut. “People thought we were crazy, some of them our own cutters,” says von Sternberg. “But we had to know whether improving the make of a top-rated fancy colored diamond would cost the stone its color grade.” What resulted is a 0.86-ct. diamond that not only retained the color grade assigned by the Gemological Institute of America – it also became the first fancy-colored diamond cut to precise standards that maximize brilliance and dispersion, he says.

http://starvingartiststeam.blogspot.com/2011/08/story-of-diamonds-marcel-tolkowsky-and.html



Also: http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/2001/jun01/0601dn3.html





Also, read this link: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-rare-article-about-fcds-and-good-cut.163720/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-rare-article-about-fcds-and-good-cut.163720/[/URL]

In the mood for a Fancy Deep Blue Eightstar?

 

[echelon6]

YES this is what I'm after!

Thank you Kenny! you're the go-to guy when it comes to FCDs !

Now wondering if there are any vids of these showing their scintillation in motion? if there aren't, that's fine, the photos look good enough

 

[EEFranklin]

I usually stay in the Lab-Grown Diamond forum, so didn't see your post until now. Yellow synthetics can certainly be recut to AGS000 standards. As everyone else pointed out, cutting a colored diamond to ideal-colorless proportions will lighten it some, but probably not more than one grade, if that, depending on the before cut and color.

AGS does grade synthetic diamonds (we recently received a batch of man-made whites from them), but they do not currently issue reports for fancy colors.

*edited*

 

[EightstarKy]

Our Quality is Still as High as it has ever been since we Purchased EightStar from Richard, Nothing has changed except the state of the Factory and the taxation(!!!). Anyway, We don't cut any synthetics but we do cut Fancy Colored, generally custom ordered. They, FCD, are just usually more knotted and grainy, so it takes a bit longer to cut. The EightStar Brand Diamond is still the highest Cut Grade possibly, More Fire than anything else out there and We make it a Priority to keep everything the same and not Cut any corners, no pun intended, in our Diamonds. But Yes we just finished a 2ct FIOY for a customer that made the stone Much Much brighter, obviously, and the color much more beautiful!

 

[periwinklegirl]

Here's my fancy intense blue from D.NEA.

 

[thorns]

I am going for the same look, an ideal cut yellow stone ultimately for a halo/platinum setting. I've ordered a gemesis stone which I will examine and probably drop off at EGL for a second opinion.

 

[JamesChemist]

@Thorns what were the stats on the diamond that you purchased? Have you tried inputting the stats from potential FVY diamonds into the HCA evaluation tool to determine potential Light Return, Fire, Scintillation and Spread?

Good luck! Would love to see pictures later.

 

[thorns]

Yes I tried that tool, it gave a good result/grade (0.8 TIC range), but I will withhold judgement until I have the stone in my hands, and subsequently and EGL report!

 

[thorns]

Pre-grading report came back from EGL:

1 0.98 ROUND BRILLIANT FANCY INTENSE ORANGY YELLOW
VVS2 6.43 6.36 3.92 61.3 57 14.9 42.7 MEDIUM TO SL. THICK FACETED NONE IDEAL PLUS
VERY GOOD VERY GOOD STRONG GREENISH YEL HPHT treated, Lab created

Looks good to me! The IGI report from Gemesis had Fluorescence: None, but here it appears to be strong greenish yellow, so I'll have to try to get a look at that myself once I get the stone back.

 

[JamesChemist]

The stats look good. Also seems like it will be a bit orange. Would love to see pics and hear your thoughts on how sparkly the diamond is.

 

[thorns]

It was very beautiful and sparkly, but I decided to return the gem and try another, due to the unexpected fluorescence. I have some photos but they don't really do it justice, since I was trying to hold an iPhone above a loupe...

 

[periwinklegirl]

Still like to see them. My current avatar photo was taken the same way.

 

[periwinklegirl]

Pre-grading report came back from EGL:

1 0.98 ROUND BRILLIANT FANCY INTENSE ORANGY YELLOW
VVS2 6.43 6.36 3.92 61.3 57 14.9 42.7 MEDIUM TO SL. THICK FACETED NONE IDEAL PLUS
VERY GOOD VERY GOOD STRONG GREENISH YEL HPHT treated, Lab created

Did you like the orangy yellow? Would you say it looked golden?

I have my eye on one but I've only seen yellows in person so far.

 

[thorns]

Some updates since I posted that:

I returned the yellow back to Gemesis. The cut was superb, but the unexpected flourescence gave it a bit of a neon quality that I ultimately decided I didn't like. I ordered a light blue from D.NEA which was lovely, but not blue enough for me, so finally I have settled on an intense blue from D.NEA. I will try to upload some photos of the yellow once I get home, but it definitely wasn't orangey, if anything it was greeny.