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When Is Euthanasia Okay?

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
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This story kind of freaked me out. :sick:

Deaf Twins, Going Blind, Euthanized

Two deaf twin brothers in Belgium were euthanized by their doctor after realizing they were going blind and would be unable to see each other ever again, their physician says.

The 45-year-old men, whose names have not been made public, were legally put to death by lethal injection at the Brussels University Hospital in Jette, on Dec. 14.

The men, who were born deaf, had a cup of coffee and said goodbye to other family members before walking into hospital room together to die, their doctor told Belgian television station RTL.

"They were very happy. It was a relief to see the end of their suffering," said Dr. David Dufour.

"They had a cup of coffee in the hall. It went well and a rich conversation. Then the separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful," he said. "At the last there was a little wave of their hands and then they were gone,"

More than 1,000 people legally availed themselves of doctor-assisted deaths in Belgium in 2011, most of them were terminally ill cancer patients.

The brothers are unique in that their illness was not terminal. Belgian law, however, allows doctors to euthanize "suffering" patients who are both mentally sound, over 18 and want to die.

Belgian lawmakers are considering a law that would extend euthanasia to dementia patients and children, whose families and doctors consented.


What do you think?
 
Did you do the bolding?

Personally I think it is great that they had this option. While yes they could probably have committed suicide in some other way had this option not been available, it would have been much more risky and probably painful. Finding and knowing how to administrate poison is not easy, neither is a gun in many countries, throwing yourself of a high level could go wrong and would negativity impact those that find your remains, etc.

Honestly I can just think of how I would react, being deaf and knowing that I would soon be blind. It would be extremely hard to communicate with anyone and you would require constant care. I would not want to live that way, and at least they had the choice of a dignified way of ending it. This of course doesn't mean that it is the right decision for everyone, but no one is enforcing it on those that wish to live.

ETA: I think children and dementia sufferers are a hard case, but I firmly believe that they too should have the option of euthanasia. I have worked in a home for dementia patients and based on things I saw and experienced there I made the decision that should I be facing the same fate, I will commit suicide. I have also discussed this with my closest family.
 
Every person in Asia is young, or was at one time, so I say it's always okay.
 
I think it should be an option. The slippery slope occurs when this decision might be extended to others - family members or physicians. Never say never cause once you open the door, it is possible. I think for people diagnosed with terminal illnesses it is a blessing to choose to end your life on your own terms rather than waiting to go through the painstaking process of a slow and painful death. I've seen people in very unfortunate situations that can neither live nor die. The sad thing is that many of them were rendered to this state in the blink of an eye and the ability to make this choice is no longer available to them. However, for many people, I think having this option would be a blessing. As it stands now, you either find a way to do it yourself or subject any one helping you to criminal charges.
 
One of my professor's husbands is deaf and blind. My professor is deaf. Her husband lives a full life, communicating through touch and ASL. I'm sad to hear these young twins thought their lives were at an end. I do, however, believe it was their choice to make. They peacefully went, rather than committed suicide in possibly more horrifying and painful ways. This way their families can prepare. A murder suicide by gunshot would have devastated the family more.
 
I'd want to go when my body/mind starts to fail. I'm not afraid of aging or dying. If euthanasia is not legal at that point, I'd find other ways.
 
This seems rather extreme. I understand terminally ill wanting to end suffering, but having dr assisted suicide because of going blind seems a bit like they needed some help learning to cope with being blind and taught how to adjust and how to continue living rather than being euthanized. Seems like they probably had extreme depression which should have been addressed. But, you know, it was their choice and I do agree that it is better that they were assisted by medical professionals rather than doing it themselves.
 
MC|1358206001|3355574 said:
This seems rather extreme. I understand terminally ill wanting to end suffering, but having dr assisted suicide because of going blind seems a bit like they needed some help learning to cope with being blind and taught how to adjust and how to continue living rather than being euthanized. Seems like they probably had extreme depression which should have been addressed. But, you know, it was their choice and I do agree that it is better that they were assisted by medical professionals rather than doing it themselves.

This!
 
kenny|1358202851|3355537 said:
Every person in Asia is young, or was at one time, so I say it's always okay.

. . . what . . . ? :confused:

You're just messing with me, aren't you, Kenny?
 
Youth in Asia, that's my bet at least!
 
My mother is blind (can't see anything...colors light darkness- nothing) and to tell her that being blind is a disability is a really bad idea. She is an advocate for independance no matter what physical limitations you might have. Now with that said while I disagree with the decision the brothers made I think euthanasia is ok. I wouldn't want to suffere a painful death. I would want death to be on my terms.

I will also say that recently I had the chance to listen to a woman speak about watching her 9 year old suffer from terminal cancer. She said she prayed nightly that he would go peacefully in his sleep- that it would be easy on him. It wasn't and it was painful and heart breaking for the entire family. The scene she described whenever he had a painful episode was enough to make me physical ill. While I hope to NEVER be put in this position I can see why people would want the option for their children as well. I have no problem with what Belgium is doing. I agree this is an extreme case but most people don't fit into this category.
 
The twins were an extreme story but remember they were also deaf. If you loose one sense, the others heighten. I can only imagine how frightening the world must be to not be able to hear and then realize that you won't be able to see either. Considering all of that, I understand how they might have come to that decision.
 
Sarahbear621|1358207102|3355588 said:
My mother is blind (can't see anything...colors light darkness- nothing) and to tell her that being blind is a disability is a really bad idea. She is an advocate for independance no matter what physical limitations you might have. Now with that said while I disagree with the decision the brothers made I think euthanasia is ok. I wouldn't want to suffere a painful death. I would want death to be on my terms.

I will also say that recently I had the chance to listen to a woman speak about watching her 9 year old suffer from terminal cancer. She said she prayed nightly that he would go peacefully in his sleep- that it would be easy on him. It wasn't and it was painful and heart breaking for the entire family. The scene she described whenever he had a painful episode was enough to make me physical ill. While I hope to NEVER be put in this position I can see why people would want the option for their children as well. I have no problem with what Belgium is doing. I agree this is an extreme case but most people don't fit into this category.

I support euthanasia and agree this was an extreme case. I agree with mc that these brothers were probably depressed and hope they addressed that before considering this option but I also feel it was their choice to make. So sad.
 
One or both of these guys would have killed himself somehow -- and if one were left, it would be horrendous for him. They were able to make a rational decision; I'm not wise enough to judge them. Terminal illness, yes, I think euthanasia when requested is merciful.

Where the patient is incapacitated mentally & will never recover -- I'm thinking severe cases like Terry Schiavo whose brain had literally turned to mush -- I think, Please let her go. Why is it that fundamentalists, who believe there is a heaven, were so determined not to let her go there?

Some physical horrors -- a stroke that paralyzes completely (locked-in syndrome) would get my support for euthanasia if the patient desired (how would we know?).

Anybody with dementia would wish for death, if capable, & okay if they left instructions; without that it kind of creeps me out -- becomes Orwellian. It's the cruelest fate; I'm on the fence, though having worked in an old people's home one college summer, I could get behind it possibly. I hope I have enough warning & the resources to take care of it myself if necessary.

--- Laurie
 
JewelFreak|1358208228|3355603 said:
One or both of these guys would have killed himself somehow -- and if one were left, it would be horrendous for him. They were able to make a rational decision; I'm not wise enough to judge them. Terminal illness, yes, I think euthanasia when requested is merciful.

Where the patient is incapacitated mentally & will never recover -- I'm thinking severe cases like Terry Schiavo whose brain had literally turned to mush -- I think, Please let her go. Why is it that fundamentalists, who believe there is a heaven, were so determined not to let her go there?

Some physical horrors -- a stroke that paralyzes completely (locked-in syndrome) would get my support for euthanasia if the patient desired (how would we know?).

Anybody with dementia would wish for death, if capable, & okay if they left instructions; without that it kind of creeps me out -- becomes Orwellian. It's the cruelest fate; I'm on the fence, though having worked in an old people's home one college summer, I could get behind it possibly. I hope I have enough warning & the resources to take care of it myself if necessary.

--- Laurie

Totally agree Laurie. It's critical to make sure to have a living will and all that stuff necessary to make sure your instructions are carried out. I would not want to live with locked in syndrome or dementia that renders me incapable of knowing who I am and who my loved ones are. Euthanasia can be a real blessing IMO.
 
Always ok as long as the person receiving it has the mental capacity to make that decision.
 
iLander|1358206765|3355582 said:
kenny|1358202851|3355537 said:
Every person in Asia is young, or was at one time, so I say it's always okay.

. . . what . . . ? :confused:

You're just messing with me, aren't you, Kenny?

Of course. :Up_to_something:
 
I often wonder why this isn't more of a political topic in America... we hear so much about healthcare and long term care... and this is a very relevant related issue.
 
Ms P|1358210072|3355624 said:
I often wonder why this isn't more of a political topic in America... we hear so much about healthcare and long term care... and this is a very relevant related issue.

Good question. We (USA) seem to be a bit behind in many important topics relevant to quality of life issues unfortunately. ::)
 
This may be a semantic difference, but I don't see this as euthanasia ... I see it as doctor-assisted suicide. And I believe we all have the right to choose our deaths as we choose our lives.

I assume they were examined for clinical depression and counseled on their other options, and that the horror of being essentially cut of from the world made this seem like their best option. I can understand that. Madelise, I admire your professor's husband ... but I also don't know if I would be capable of as much. At the end, those who face the possibility should get to decide how they will handle it.
 
JewelFreak|1358208228|3355603 said:
One or both of these guys would have killed himself somehow -- and if one were left, it would be horrendous for him. They were able to make a rational decision; I'm not wise enough to judge them. Terminal illness, yes, I think euthanasia when requested is merciful.

Where the patient is incapacitated mentally & will never recover -- I'm thinking severe cases like Terry Schiavo whose brain had literally turned to mush -- I think, Please let her go. Why is it that fundamentalists, who believe there is a heaven, were so determined not to let her go there?

Some physical horrors -- a stroke that paralyzes completely (locked-in syndrome) would get my support for euthanasia if the patient desired (how would we know?).

Anybody with dementia would wish for death, if capable, & okay if they left instructions; without that it kind of creeps me out -- becomes Orwellian. It's the cruelest fate; I'm on the fence, though having worked in an old people's home one college summer, I could get behind it possibly. I hope I have enough warning & the resources to take care of it myself if necessary.

--- Laurie

Ugh, Laurie, such a serious subject, and then you post these two points (bolded) and made me giggle . . . :oops:
 
kenny|1358209044|3355615 said:
iLander|1358206765|3355582 said:
kenny|1358202851|3355537 said:
Every person in Asia is young, or was at one time, so I say it's always okay.

. . . what . . . ? :confused:

You're just messing with me, aren't you, Kenny?

Of course. :Up_to_something:

Thank God Tammy77 reminded me of this oooolllllddddd joke! I think the last time I heard this joke was when you had that big moustache and the white belt, right Kenny? :bigsmile:
 
PAD Physician aid-in-dying is legal in three states in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_United_States

How do I feel about it? For me personally, no way. I have fought for my life, there is no way I'm going to give it up.

Is it someone else's right to take their life, theoretically, I guess so. I mean, we have the ability to kill ourselves whenever we want. Should we? I don't think so. Most everyone is attached to others. Isn't Love for others a factor?

I am a suicide survivor. I never felt so alone and abandoned than I did while recovering from that other person's act of suicide. I know it wasn't toward me personally, but it was said over and over again that suicide is the most selfish act.
 
@Natasha; yes, I bolded everything that wigged me out

@housecat; I'm sorry to hear this. :blackeye: Hugs to you . . .
 
What really scares me the most about it is when it becomes more accepted, then the next thing down the road is people deciding which people are worthy of living...reminds me way too much of the Nazi's and the Holocaust.

My personal feeling is that I can understand the idea of it more with terminal illness and pain/suffering. I do not know anything about the case of the suffering child, but to me, there was no excuse for him not to receive adequate pain management.

I think the case of the twins is certainly assisted suicide and not euthanasia. And I believe non-terminal assisted suicide is morally wrong for a physician (who makes an oath to heal and save lives) to perform (and euthanasia in a terminal case is still debatable).

If someone commits suicide, that is certainly their decision and they should be the sole ones responsible for carrying it out, although I agree with housecat that it often results in the suffering of many other people.
 
Circe|1358210743|3355639 said:
This may be a semantic difference, but I don't see this as euthanasia ... I see it as doctor-assisted suicide. And I believe we all have the right to choose our deaths as we choose our lives.

I assume they were examined for clinical depression and counseled on their other options, and that the horror of being essentially cut of from the world made this seem like their best option. I can understand that. Madelise, I admire your professor's husband ... but I also don't know if I would be capable of as much. At the end, those who face the possibility should get to decide how they will handle it.

Beautifully said, and I couldn't agree more.
 
House Cat|1358213790|3355684 said:
PAD Physician aid-in-dying is legal in three states in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_United_States

How do I feel about it? For me personally, no way. I have fought for my life, there is no way I'm going to give it up.

Is it someone else's right to take their life, theoretically, I guess so. I mean, we have the ability to kill ourselves whenever we want. Should we? I don't think so. Most everyone is attached to others. Isn't Love for others a factor?

I am a suicide survivor. I never felt so alone and abandoned than I did while recovering from that other person's act of suicide. I know it wasn't toward me personally, but it was said over and over again that suicide is the most selfish act.

House Cat - I'm so sorry you had to endure the pain of having a loved one commit suicide. One of the hardest things I had to tell my children that their aunt was dead and had to LIE to them bc it was too difficult to try to explain that she took her life. The amount of pain it's caused has been unbarable.

As I previously said, for illness/pain beyond the point of recovery, I am 100 percent for it...but, the case with the brothers is different. They did get a chance to say goodbye and everyone was aware ahead of time and that there, makes a huge difference, IMO, rather than getting a phone call that the person who was suppose to visiting in a few days took her life instead, like we did.
 
missy|1358210238|3355629 said:
Ms P|1358210072|3355624 said:
I often wonder why this isn't more of a political topic in America... we hear so much about healthcare and long term care... and this is a very relevant related issue.

Good question. We (USA) seem to be a bit behind in many important topics relevant to quality of life issues unfortunately. ::)

My guess is that it's because healthcare and long term care are such big businesses. Lots more money to be made if people need healthcare and aren't offing themselves.

To answer the original question: I don't know when it's ok, it's a broad question with a lot of grey areas. I find it hard to think about in general terms, but if a loved one said to me, "I really, truly don't want to exist anymore if I have to endure a, b, and c, and I honestly want to end my life," I think I would support them and help them rather than selfishly (only speaking to my own feelings) try to dissuade them.
 
It is ideal when the patient can discuss things with family. You get to say goodbye. You understand. You're glad the pain is over.

Housecat, the other times, pain is transferred to the survivors. They are tormented: what could I have done? Why didn't I know? How could she walk out & slam the door on me like this? (Feelings very similar to an unexpected death of any type, btw -- heart attack, car accident.) You didn't get to say things you wish you had.

Here's comfort: It is not at all a rejection of loved ones. The mental anguish that leads someone to suicide for non-physical reasons is indescribable. Equal to any agonizing medical condition & often has gone on longer. If it's due to depression, there seems no other solution. Death feels like deliverance, just as it does with cancer. It is a cancer of the mind & soul.

For the 1st 30 yrs of my life until I finally found medication that worked, I was there. For you, I'll try to describe it. The last several years of it, I woke every day with a sinking feeling, "Damn. Still alive." You are consumed by how worthless you are; you honestly believe people won't even miss you or will get over it quickly. You don't care whether you stay home or go out; both are misery. You fear sleep & its horrendous dreams. Feeling dead inside, you pretend, smile, laugh -- usually thinking, "I would think this was funny if I were normal, so laugh." Mostly people don't realize that everything is gray to you, breathing in & breathing out an unbearable burden. You don't tell anyone because they'd advise you to buck up, think more positively, when your brain chemistry makes it impossible. I used to drive past cemetaries & envy the dead; for them, it was over.

Think of it the same as you would of a terminal cancer patient's decision to quit. It is the same. Not, "Here, family, take this!" but a blessed & much needed release from constant unbearable agony. With great regret at leaving those you love & sincere conviction that you're doing them a favor. It's an illness as palpable as any bodily one -- in fact, it is a medical sickness we now understand better.

Forgive. Yourself and the lost one.

--- Laurie
 
It should be an option for those who have the mental capacity to choose and those who have indicated such a choice prior to their illness. I would not want to be a vegetable or an inconvenience to anyone. Who is to say their pain and suffering is bearable? Why must life be preserved at all costs?
 
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