We have definitely created a monster...a cute one but a monster nonetheless. I don't know why I'm such a wimp on the sleep front but it's starting to wear on me. Since straight CIO probably would crush me, I think I am going to try pick up put down and see what happens. There may be lots of sleepless nights until we get him back in his crib but it'll be worth it in the end! DH is on board so we'll probably rotate nights. I'm wearing ear plugs when it's my night to sleep!
puppmom|1321846360|3065923 said:Dreamer, tell me there's hope for my 15 month old!
....and Ryder is so cute! I love a big baby. N was just about that size too. Wait, no - N is short and chubby. Ryder is so long! N was 28.5 inches at 1.
Skippy, reflux is rough. A friend of mine used that Rock N Play for her son with reflux and it was a lifesaver. She also liked that she could rock it while laying in bed.
Well, I should probably get to bed since N will be up in 2 hours!
I am thinking of my son when he was 15 months and no way would that have flown. But he was a stubborn and persistent little monkey, with a different disposition you might find it works. I guess eventually he would just get over tired and fall asleep when you put him down. Might take a few hours Pick up put down worked well with HUnter at like 4 weeks, but Ryder never went for it. With R we just let him CIO, meanies that we are. We are immune to crying now I can tell the difference between "I'm not awake I am just crying to fall asleep" and crying because of distress now. But as I said, we would not leave him for long periods, and I only let him CIO when I knew he was really really tired. Like, use pick up put down for a little while, nurse him to coma state, *then* use CIO after 15-20 minutes when it is clear he is basically asleep but just fighting it! We also found music or those light things like ocean wonders worked well! And soothers.
We take him to his room and read a story and he's turns the light off. I then rock him to sleep and put him down. 
puppmom|1321886923|3066101 said:So, when N wakes, it starts as a fussy cry - more like a whine. Then it slowly builds and before we know it, he's standing and doing that crying where he can't catch his breath. Once he's standing up, we know it's over. That's when we go get him.
That is how they all are, I think.
N does know when it's bed time. We have a routine and, if he's ready before the usual time, he'll get his blankie and lay his head on my leg.
Sounds good to me!
- Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse and I should start with trying to get him to fall asleep on his own? ...and that will lead to longer stretches of sleep?
Hmmm. I don't know. I think if we were talkinhg about a 3-4 months old I would say yes. But with a 15 months old I am not so sure. How are you thinking you will get him to fall asleep on his own? In my experience the falling asleep at the start of the night and staying asleep during the night are two very different things. H was always dope at the first and lame at the second.
- I've tried soothing him without picking him up out of the crib thinking if I could get him to fall asleep in the crib then we can avoid the wake up that comes with putting him down. Here's how that usually goes - he cries hysterically while I pat his back and rub his head. Then, a pause and a big yawn and he falls face first into the mattress because he's so tired. Then, count to ten and he's wailing again. I've never made it past an hour but so far it hasn’t worked. Maybe if I just powered through and did this for longer, it would eventually work?
I never found that worked with HUnter and have not tried it with Ryder. It seems like silly advice from the books to me, along with the idea what you should wait longer and longer stretches when using CIO before you go in. Both methods, from a learning theory perpective, would teach the child to fuss louder and longer to get comfort. Sort of the opposite of what you want, eh?
- When he wakes in the MOTN (or 11pm like he did last night!), we let him cry for a few minutes then, when it elevates to the “can’t catch my breath” cry, we get him. The SECOND you pick him up, he stops crying and lays his head on you. We rock him in the chair and he passes out. We put him in the crib and he pops up and starts crying. This crying doesn’t start out as a whining. He goes straight to screaming. Then, I can’t bear to walk out and leave him that way. That’s how he ends up in our bed. Maybe, we should wait longer and longer each night to fetch him? Maybe this where I try pick up put down?
- One of the problems we’ve had recently is he’s been sick for almost a month straight. Do you make *exceptions* when they’re sick? While he’s been sick, he’s been sleeping ON me or so close to me that I can’t move a muscle.
When my babies are sick I sooth them however needed. With H once we was STTN the disturbance of illness lasted for the illness and then he was back in his routine. BUT I did not bring him in bed with us when he was sick. I would sooth him as needed in his room. So I guess that is one small thing, something we did with both boys, is just at a point decide that they were going to be in their room always, not ours, and if they needed me I went to them. If the option of coming into mom and dads bed is there, I feel like they will want to try for that. But remove that option and perhaps they get more used to being in their own room as a safe place.
I’m just so conflicted because I DO want him in his crib but none of the means to get there seem ideal. When I think about CIO and the possibility of hours of crying, it makes me sick to my stomach. And, at his age, I really do think it’ll be hours.
…this is embarrassing. I realize I’m full of excuses as to why I can’t get him out of our bed.
PS – feel free to boss me around, shout at me even. I need some tough love!
Well I don't think there is a right and wrong here, really. Co-sleeping is not bad, IMO, as long as you are all happy with it. I know many parents who co-slept for a long time and eventually thier kids ended up in their own beds. If you WANT to transition him, I am more than happy to be your moral support! But if you don't want to, then do not feel pressured to do so. There is nothing wrong with co-sleeping from a developmental perspective in my opinion.
It could not have been that traumatic for him! I have often found with my kids that the peak of their crying signals the time when they will fall asleep! Like wwwaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAA... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Perhaps you are going in too soon? YOu might also try a 20 minute approach. Give it 20 minutes and see what happens. Or, time how long he pauses between cries. Is it getting longer? If you are not read for CIO I might set a smaller goal -- getting him back in his own bed. So you basically persist in his room at soothing him, pick up put down, until he falls asleep in his own bed. It would work eventually!
puppmom|1321886923|3066101 said:Ok, Dreamer and Swimmer...you opened the door and I'm barging in with questions!
Well, here is the thing, figure out what your goals are regarding sleep and then design your plan backwards. All kids love structure and predictability, N wants to go to sleep and he wants a routine, you just need to figure out what will work best for your family and creating a consistent path will follow.
So, when N wakes, it starts as a fussy cry - more like a whine. Then it slowly builds and before we know it, he's standing and doing that crying where he can't catch his breath. Once he's standing up, we know it's over. That's when we go get him.
I totally know that feeling, you just know you have to get them, game over. I agree and I also go in and get him, or rather DH does so as to not have boobs introduced into the situ.
N does know when it's bed time. We have a routine and, if he's ready before the usual time, he'll get his blankie and lay his head on my leg.
What about just putting him in his crib instead of rocking him. Even staying for a bit with your hand on him and then leaving, but making him soothe himself to sleep rather than rocking him?
- Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse and I should start with trying to get him to fall asleep on his own? ...and that will lead to longer stretches of sleep?
Yeah, it sounds like you know what you should be doing, N needs to learn to fall asleep solo and it sounds like you have created the routine and he is showing that he is sleepy, have you ever just put him in the crib without rocking him?
- I've tried soothing him without picking him up out of the crib thinking if I could get him to fall asleep in the crib then we can avoid the wake up that comes with putting him down. Here's how that usually goes - he cries hysterically while I pat his back and rub his head. Then, a pause and a big yawn and he falls face first into the mattress because he's so tired. Then, count to ten and he's wailing again. I've never made it past an hour but so far it hasn’t worked. Maybe if I just powered through and did this for longer, it would eventually work? What do you need to do longer? patting him? I missed that, sorry. Once he is up and hysterical,then crashes, what happens when he falls asleep before the 10count to scream? do you keep your hand on him? Is it that he needs the reassurance that you are there? I found it impossible to transfer sleeping baby into the crib without waking him up but DH is master of the flip while supporting the head (E is a tummy sleeper from the very beginning) Is your DH better at keeping him asleep for the transfer? DH takes inordinate pride in this btw.
- When he wakes in the MOTN (or 11pm like he did last night!), we let him cry for a few minutes then, when it elevates to the “can’t catch my breath” cry, we get him. The SECOND you pick him up, he stops crying and lays his head on you. We rock him in the chair and he passes out. We put him in the crib and he pops up and starts crying. This crying doesn’t start out as a whining. He goes straight to screaming. Then, I can’t bear to walk out and leave him that way. That’s how he ends up in our bed. Maybe, we should wait longer and longer each night to fetch him? Maybe this where I try pick up put down? In my experience and from what I read, there is no point in letting a truly hysterical baby scream. Screaming to the point of vomiting and a cold sweat is not what Furber or HSHHC urge at all and that is where the pick up put down comes in. In my experience when it was hysterical screaming we brought him into bed with us, but when it was just yowling we waited a few mins and it passed.
- One of the problems we’ve had recently is he’s been sick for almost a month straight. Do you make *exceptions* when they’re sick? While he’s been sick, he’s been sleeping ON me or so close to me that I can’t move a muscle. I do not do cio when E is sick. He just had the croup and I was supposed to take him to the ER at Childrens if he didn't drink for 3 hours. I was not going to let him cry for even a second since breathing was pretty hard for him. In no way could I have let him cio even for our max of 3 mins at that point.
We’ve talked to the nurse practitioner and one of the docs at our pedi office and they both advocate CIO (and say it worked with their own children) and keep stressing that the longer we wait, the harder it will be. I think I'm subconciously convinced that one night he'll just start STTN again!
Well, he could also start doing algebra all on his own...but I've heard enough horror stories about teenagers and college students who are still bad a putting themselves to sleep. Not that there are ever exceptions of course and I just met a baby who slept through the night at day 3, but she was 10lbs 5oz. In my limited experience, a slightly modified cio worked, but I was also told that feeding him to sleep was the worst thing ever. Whatever, we will damage them all, i just hope he has good insurance later for therapy. If what you have now isn't working, then you need to make some changes, but if you can't then, don't. I couldn't do cio till E was older, he just wouldn't have gotten it and would have been pissed and screamed for hours. So I didn't do it. When he was 12 mths he was sturdy and I thought he could do it, so we did. But I think its like a lot of things in life, if you try it and you aren't sure and think it might fail then you will be totally right, it will fail. Not that you want it to! But pick a path that you can consistently keep for both N's and your own sake.
I’m just so conflicted because I DO want him in his crib but none of the means to get there seem ideal. When I think about CIO and the possibility of hours of crying, it makes me sick to my stomach. And, at his age, I really do think it’ll be hours.
I just haven't seen ANY research that says letting a baby cry for hours is going to work. Furber and many many others, I can pull up authors if you want, say to NOT let that happen and crying is not the goal of any cio program. I think that CIO anecdotally discussed is very different from actual CIO? The longest we ever set the timer for waiting till going up was 7 mins. He fell asleep before then most of the time, but I ran him every afternoon to the park, on the playground he did a ton of stuff, and then we scooted home, and that was after a full day of playing at daycare with lots of outside exercise. Yes, I was trying to run a toddler ragged, but I wanted him to want to sleep and it seemed to work.
…this is embarrassing. I realize I’m full of excuses as to why I can’t get him out of our bed.
If you want him in your bed, then keep him there! Many cultures keep him there for years and their kids turn out just fine. I'm no expert at all, but I knew what I wanted our routine to look like. What do you want? Just kick him out sometime before teenage years?
PS – feel free to boss me around, shout at me even. I need some tough love!
So just keep trying different things and maybe it will work.
I know if we have baby number two, he/she will probably be a horrible sleeper.
Laila619|1322009892|3067172 said:I think my DH and I hit the sleep jackpot with out son. He started STTN from 10pm to 6:15am at 7 weeks old.
Now at 11 months old, he'll sleep for 12 - 13 hours, from 9pm to 10am. We are very lucky we get to sleep in, as the 6:15am wake ups were a little too early. This kid LOVES getting his rest. He gets excited when you put him in his little sleep sack.
Nighttime sleep was always good, but until 6 months old, he would NOT nap on his own--we had to hold him for all naps. We did a bit of sleep training, and then it clicked for him and he became a pro at naps, too. He sleeps in his crib on his tummy (his preference).
I think a lot of what makes a 'good sleeper' is just the baby's personality, and if they know how to self-soothe. My little guy never took a paci, but he sucks his thumb so he can always put himself to sleep with that.
Dreamer_D|1322031484|3067487 said:Laila619|1322009892|3067172 said:I think my DH and I hit the sleep jackpot with out son. He started STTN from 10pm to 6:15am at 7 weeks old.
Now at 11 months old, he'll sleep for 12 - 13 hours, from 9pm to 10am. We are very lucky we get to sleep in, as the 6:15am wake ups were a little too early. This kid LOVES getting his rest. He gets excited when you put him in his little sleep sack.
Nighttime sleep was always good, but until 6 months old, he would NOT nap on his own--we had to hold him for all naps. We did a bit of sleep training, and then it clicked for him and he became a pro at naps, too. He sleeps in his crib on his tummy (his preference).
I think a lot of what makes a 'good sleeper' is just the baby's personality, and if they know how to self-soothe. My little guy never took a paci, but he sucks his thumb so he can always put himself to sleep with that.
Laila am I remembering though that you had challenges at one point with getting him to fall asleep on his own? I seem to recall a thread... I'd love to hear how it resolved.
Plus it was only two nights--if it hadn't worked right away, I probably would not have kept doing it. We rocked him to sleep for the first 5.5 months and then that's when we tried CIO.
Laila619|1322032282|3067504 said:Dreamer_D|1322031484|3067487 said:Laila619|1322009892|3067172 said:I think my DH and I hit the sleep jackpot with out son. He started STTN from 10pm to 6:15am at 7 weeks old.
Now at 11 months old, he'll sleep for 12 - 13 hours, from 9pm to 10am. We are very lucky we get to sleep in, as the 6:15am wake ups were a little too early. This kid LOVES getting his rest. He gets excited when you put him in his little sleep sack.
Nighttime sleep was always good, but until 6 months old, he would NOT nap on his own--we had to hold him for all naps. We did a bit of sleep training, and then it clicked for him and he became a pro at naps, too. He sleeps in his crib on his tummy (his preference).
I think a lot of what makes a 'good sleeper' is just the baby's personality, and if they know how to self-soothe. My little guy never took a paci, but he sucks his thumb so he can always put himself to sleep with that.
Laila am I remembering though that you had challenges at one point with getting him to fall asleep on his own? I seem to recall a thread... I'd love to hear how it resolved.
Hi Pupp! Good luck with whatever you decide to try!
Hi Dreamer~yes, we did have that issue of getting him to fall asleep on his own...we had to spend endless amounts of time rocking him until he fell asleep because if he wasn't totally asleep and we put him down, he would SCREAM and SCREAM! Once he fell asleep it was great but getting there was the problem. Also, he would only sleep reclined for the first 6 months, but that wasn't really a problem once we bought the Fisher Price Rock 'N Play sleeper.
How we tackled the issue of him not going down on his own: my mom came over and she helped with the naps. Her no-nonsense approach worked. My mom said my son could tell I was nervous about naps, and he was picking up on that. Who knows if that was true or not, but when she laid him down for his naps, it worked. DH and I did a bit of CIO for nighttime--it was hard, but it literally took two nights, and that was IT! It just seemed to click for him. It was probably just really good timing since he was finally able to self-soothe and had just started sucking his thumb. Now we put him down in his crib, he immediately rolls onto his tummy, snuggles into the mattress, and he's out like a light.
I always thought CIO sounded mean, but it's also mean to allow a baby to be sleep deprived and crabby. Something had to give! It worked, and he still loves us.
ETA: we also tried pick up/put down once and that just made him mad and hysterical. I think he thought we were teasing him.
About 10 minutes later...silence. Victory! ...or so we thought. DD was in her room watching a movie and thought she would help out so she picked him up and rocked him
puppmom|1322179719|3068430 said:By some stroke of dumb luck N slept through the night on Monday and Tuesday. Last night we had company and he started to stir around midnight. He fell back asleep a few times after finding his blankie and sucking his thumb. By 1am, he worked himself into full hysterics. Our guests were heading out shortly so we thought it would be the perfect time to just let him go for a little bit to see what happened. Our friends were encouraging us and cheering us on.
When I put my twins to sleep; I stick a paci in Evan and turn the white noise sound machine on and give Miles his little blankie and they sleep. Well the past 2 nights they STTN, unbelievable (rejoicing)! Then I talked to my husband and said what if they wake up in the middle of the night?? He said give Evan his paci and turn on the sound machine. Well they woke at 2 am, not crying, just babbling and I did that! They went right back to sleep. I am going to keep doing that unless they are really crying, then I will feed them, but hopefully this is a step in the right direction of STTN! 
Loves Vintage|1327000676|3106789 said:
so I do what works, and also keep in mind my longer term goal. Right now, I want to be able to put him down without nursing him to sleep, so I try at least once a day to put him down when he is still awake and let him try to put himself to sleep. Or I will try transferring him before he is out cold. Just small steps. Sometimes it works and sometimes not, but I think in a few months he will be doing what we want. This method of trying different things and incrementally going in the direction we want, worked to get him a) off my chest b) off my boob) c) out of our bed into a cosleeper d) into the cosleeper all night, e) into his own crib. Baby steps.
Pandora|1327058563|3107309 said:
. Journey's in the car are painful for me as well and usually result in full on screaming and tears often for both of us. At nine months my daughter is fiercely independent, and very persistent as well. That is one of the reasons I don't believe a cry it out approach to sleep would work for our family...Along with my beliefs about teaching and learning and brain development but that is just my opinion. Luckily she is able to speak a few words and generally communicate her needs/wants with greater clarity in the last few weeks which is beginning to make my life easier although she is now walking so exploring and getting into everything!! Loves Vintage|1327004360|3106829 said:
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