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When did faceted girdles become common?

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coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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I was wondering when it became common to facet girdles--not just polish, but facet them as we commonly see today?

Thanks!
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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OK, I''ll bite. I think early to mid 1980s based on all the antique/vintage jewelry I''ve seen. 1970s pieces still have bruted girdles for the most part, as do 1960s. This is guesstimation, based on the styles of the settings and look of the faceting of the stones. But, pretty much all pieces from the ''70s I''ve seen, do have bruted girdles still. I got a cute pair of 2/3ctw earrings dating to the 1970s this week, and yup- they''ve got bruted girdles. Not sure if it was just the way things were "done" or actually a technology thing.

Since I''m just guessing based on observation of a lot of estate jewelry over the years, I''d be interested to know if anyone as an answer with more concrete info than mine.
 

coatimundi_org

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LGK--thanks much!

I was looking at a chapter in one of my textbooks, and it's vague, but corresponds to what you have observed.

It states that the first automated polishing machines appeared in the 1970s. In the early 90s--machines were developed to polish stones with crystal structure irregularities. It goes on to state that machines were developed to facet girdles, but no specific dates. So somewhere in the 80s-90s?

I prefer the look of frosted girdles to faceted.
 

Rockdiamond

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I just got off the phone with my old friend "Sam Spade"- who was cutting diamonds before WWII.

He remembered that Willie Goldberg was faceting girdles in the 1950''s- although it was not common at that time.
Sam feels that Willie and his partner at the time really brought faceted girdles to the forefront.

Sam also believes that a very good G color with a bruted girdle can become an F if you facet the girdle.
 

Rockdiamond

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Actually it's common to for cutters on 47th street to charge $20 per carat to facet a girdle- it does not take all that long- and it is done by hand.
Sam says less than an hour to do a 2 carat stone.

Remember that when a stone is "girdled" initially, it's done by machine.
The faceting of a girdle is done by hand, during the Brilliandeering stage.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 2/13/2009 3:33:13 PM
Author: coatimundi
LGK--thanks much!

I was looking at a chapter in one of my textbooks, and it''s vague, but corresponds to what you have observed.

It states that the first automated polishing machines appeared in the 1970s. In the early 90s--machines were developed to polish stones with crystal structure irregularities. It goes on to state that machines were developed to facet girdles, but no specific dates. So somewhere in the 80s-90s?

I prefer the look of frosted girdles to faceted.
Good work Coati,
There are auto polishers for rounds that have settings for different table crystal orientations. Four point - most common, and 2 and 3 point.
I am not aware of auto machines for fancy shapes - I think most are done by hand as RD mentioned.
 

cofor

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When I was active in the business of cutting during the 90's I always bruted the stones into round and after cutting the crown and pavillion faceted the roundist (girdle) with a computerised semi-automatic machine bought from Rubin & Son in Antwerp. This machine also was very nice to have when recutting stones with extremely thin to thin girdles. It could also be used to polish the girdle if that was to the customers wish. Instead of indexing it was set to revolve. Most stones had to be run with the cutting wheel running first one way and then the other on different parts of the girdle depending on how the rough had been oriented and what type of crystal had been used initially. Other shapes than round I mostly cut and polished the girdle "by hand" at the scaife.
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for the info Conny!

You''re still faceting, correct? I''d love to see more photos of stones you''ve cut. When did you stop faceting for business?
 

cofor

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Coati, I have not faceted a stone since 1998 and not cut a diamond since 1996. That was when I had to realize that cutting and repairing diamonds in a "gemstone illiterate" country like sweden was to hard a way to support a family. I sold much of my stock at the Tucson show in 96 and shut my business down the following fall. Since then I have been busy in the IT-world and as our kids now are grown up and have left home my wife and I have more time (and cash) left. Plans are now emerging to get started with faceting colored stones again. I have quite a stock of rough which has ben stuffed away in bags since the late 90''s. Right now I''m going through the collections and picking out nice pieces of different materials that are suitable objects. It was not as common to make images of stones you cut in those days as it is now. I do have a image somewhere of the biggest round brilliant I ever cut. We took a pic right after it was finished and just wiped clean. Will try to find it.
 

Al Gilbertson

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Ernest Schenck applied for a patent for faceting the girdle on a diamond to protect it from chipping (knife edged girdles were the norm then) in 1904. The patent was granted in 1906. Patent # 809531. While the patent mainly talks about a single curved polished facet, the claims also discuss more than one part to this single curved facet at times—allowing for the faceted girdle. Schenck preferred a single facet (i.e. a smooth polished girdle), but with this, he and those who used his patent also did multiple facets around the girdle. The main point was to protect the diamond from chipping. He essentially advocated thickening the girdle beyond the knife edge that was common then.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 2/13/2009 11:34:14 PM
Author: Al Gilbertson
Ernest Schenck applied for a patent for faceting the girdle on a diamond to protect it from chipping (knife edged girdles were the norm then) in 1904. The patent was granted in 1906. Patent # 809531. While the patent mainly talks about a single curved polished facet, the claims also discuss more than one part to this single curved facet at times—allowing for the faceted girdle. Schenck preferred a single facet (i.e. a smooth polished girdle), but with this, he and those who used his patent also did multiple facets around the girdle. The main point was to protect the diamond from chipping. He essentially advocated thickening the girdle beyond the knife edge that was common then.
Thanks Al, very interesting.
Here is a link to the patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=SBZwAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=809531#PPA2,M1
 

diagem

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Date: 2/13/2009 11:34:14 PM
Author: Al Gilbertson
Ernest Schenck applied for a patent for faceting the girdle on a diamond to protect it from chipping (knife edged girdles were the norm then) in 1904. The patent was granted in 1906. Patent # 809531. While the patent mainly talks about a single curved polished facet, the claims also discuss more than one part to this single curved facet at times—allowing for the faceted girdle. Schenck preferred a single facet (i.e. a smooth polished girdle), but with this, he and those who used his patent also did multiple facets around the girdle. The main point was to protect the diamond from chipping. He essentially advocated thickening the girdle beyond the knife edge that was common then.
So very true..., thank you Al
.

If you took (any) rough shape, applied crown and pavilion facets to it you would end up with one of many shapes Old-Mine cuts come in!
The division line (junction) between the crown and pavilion facets became the so called girdle..., with years of wear and tear that knife edge girdle became a slightly/softly bruted girdle edge which is ONE of the signs of true antiquity... (of-course with time some girdle areas got nicked and chipped).
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/14/2009 4:33:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Date: 2/13/2009 11:34:14 PM

Author: Al Gilbertson

Ernest Schenck applied for a patent for faceting the girdle on a diamond to protect it from chipping (knife edged girdles were the norm then) in 1904. The patent was granted in 1906. Patent # 809531. While the patent mainly talks about a single curved polished facet, the claims also discuss more than one part to this single curved facet at times—allowing for the faceted girdle. Schenck preferred a single facet (i.e. a smooth polished girdle), but with this, he and those who used his patent also did multiple facets around the girdle. The main point was to protect the diamond from chipping. He essentially advocated thickening the girdle beyond the knife edge that was common then.
Thanks Al, very interesting.

Here is a link to the patent:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=SBZwAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=809531#PPA2,M1
Thanks very much Al, and thanks Garry for the link to the patent.

Very interesting.
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/13/2009 8:25:12 PM
Author: cofor
Coati, I have not faceted a stone since 1998 and not cut a diamond since 1996. That was when I had to realize that cutting and repairing diamonds in a ''gemstone illiterate'' country like sweden was to hard a way to support a family. I sold much of my stock at the Tucson show in 96 and shut my business down the following fall. Since then I have been busy in the IT-world and as our kids now are grown up and have left home my wife and I have more time (and cash) left. Plans are now emerging to get started with faceting colored stones again. I have quite a stock of rough which has ben stuffed away in bags since the late 90''s. Right now I''m going through the collections and picking out nice pieces of different materials that are suitable objects. It was not as common to make images of stones you cut in those days as it is now. I do have a image somewhere of the biggest round brilliant I ever cut. We took a pic right after it was finished and just wiped clean. Will try to find it.
I''d love to see the pic of the large rb. Must be nice to be able to facet stones again. Will you be faceting any Mali garnets (any garnets for that matter) any time soon?


Very interesting about Sweden being "gemstone illiterate." Do you still find that to be the case? The gemstone "illiteracy" rates are pretty high in the US as well--probably the same as Sweden per capita.


The internet has changed everything--no borders and plenty of people out there who want to learn. Good luck, and please keep us posted. I''d love to see your work, if you''d like to share.
 
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