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What's your opinion on minimum wages going up to $15?

Dancing Fire

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Good or bad for our economy?
IMO they should raise the minimum in Ca. and NY. to $10.50 now and then slowly towards $15 in 8 yrs.
 

kenny

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Good for the workers.

The economy?
Slavery was the best thing for the economy.
Not so good for the slaves though.

I know. I know.
Typical liberal :nono: cares more about people than protecting his own wealth.
 

Kaleigh

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It's about time!!!
 

amc80

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It won't do anything in the long run. Prices will go up and we will be right back where we are now. They just did this in Oregon.

My question is does this mean I don't have to tip at restaurants? The argument was always that servers made such horrible wages and tipping compensated for that.

Minimum wage shouldn't be a livable wage because it isn't designed to be a forever pay check. I mean really, a kid in high school who is flipping burgers needs to make $15 and hour?
 

Dancing Fire

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amc80|1460744317|4019762 said:
It won't do anything in the long run. Prices will go up and we will be right back where we are now. They just did this in Oregon.

My question is does this mean I don't have to tip at restaurants? The argument was always that servers made such horrible wages and tipping compensated for that.

Minimum wage shouldn't be a livable wage because it isn't designed to be a forever pay check. I mean really, a kid in high school who is flipping burgers needs to make $15 and hour?
That's where the problem lies...Mickey D's will hire less workers and they will raise prices on every items.
 

packrat

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I know they're not supposed to be lifelong "careers", but someone's gotta make the donuts. We can't all be doctors/lawyers/accountants etc. We can't all be all the things. And we can't all pack up and move to where awesome jobs are magically. However. I've said it a million trillion times and I'll say it a million trillion more times. The big guns will get their money. In some way shape or form, they will. They will raise prices. They will cut benefits. They will do whatever it takes for them to bring in their 6.2 million $ per year. That's what our country is all about. More and more and more for me and less and less and less for you. Plain and simple. I live it and I have lived it, for many many years. Tyson put out a wage freeze, hiring freeze, no bonuses *everything* was gone, b/c there wasn't enough money----buuuut when the papers were shown, it was CEO bonus $4 million, CEO bonus 7.2 million etc etc etc full out across the board 100% EVERYONE in a higher echelon position was given a bonus and NONE of them were small by any stretch of the imagination. And we tried to put a smile on our face while we put diapers on the credit card b/c $13/hour doesn't go very far--and that was JD working in a management position. Laughable. And they made a huge production about how generous they were being later on by "pulling together for the better of the workers and trying to make their Christmas enjoyable" by giving us two five dollar off coupons for Tyson products as a Christmas bonus. So yeah. Go ahead and raise minimum wage to $100 dollars an hour-raise it as high as the sky--it won't make one iota of difference.

And quite frankly, the people that work here in the McD's and Taco Johns etc, the gas stations...well, maybe in the bigger cities you've got stellar examples of workmanship and job pride but 'round these here parts you get people who stare blankly at you and can't get a medium oreo frappe and two small mocha frappes right to save their lives. Seriously. Honestly, sometimes I want to say yanno, maybe you guys really do deserve that much money per hour, because it is, quite clearly, the HARDEST job on the planet. Like..harder than being in surgery, harder than figuring out business taxes. Maybe they do deserve the big bucks. And that's mean and snotty to say but good jeezly crow come ON.
 

amc80

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packrat|1460746618|4019780 said:
And quite frankly, the people that work here in the McD's and Taco Johns etc, the gas stations...well, maybe in the bigger cities you've got stellar examples of workmanship and job pride but 'round these here parts you get people who stare blankly at you and can't get a medium oreo frappe and two small mocha frappes right to save their lives. Seriously. Honestly, sometimes I want to say yanno, maybe you guys really do deserve that much money per hour, because it is, quite clearly, the HARDEST job on the planet. Like..harder than being in surgery, harder than figuring out business taxes. Maybe they do deserve the big bucks. And that's mean and snotty to say but good jeezly crow come ON.
Yes, exactly.

Minimum wage in OR is $9.25. When it goes all the way up to $15, that will be a 62% increase. Do I get a 62% increase? DH was in the USMC and then in law enforcement for 10+ years. He just got hired on with the state and barely makes more than that.
 

Gypsy

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In CA it is appropriate. I believe wage increases should be tied to MIT COL calculator. Should be appropriate for where you live..


And I heartily agree with packrat that not everyone can be surgeons and lawyers. These are lifelong careers for some and that's okay. They should be paid living wage.
 

moneymeister

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Depending on the state, it will kick some people out of benefits available for people in poverty. Section 8 housing, working parent childcare subsidies, food stamps, insurance premiums will not stay the same.
 

packrat

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They'll finally be able to afford the lobster on their own and not have to rely on welfare for it! It's win win. Sorry poor attempt at humor.

So really, I'll be coming out ahead. I have my para license and my child development associate and work with gen Ed and special Ed preschoolers. I make 10 bucks an hour. And that's after four years here..I didn't start out at this massive wage ohhhh no. I can *totally* get on board with someone speaking Charlie Brown adult talk to me at the mcd's drive thru and repeating my chicken nuggets and small fries back to me as mcdouble with a side salad large size with a coke making 5 dollars an hour more than I. Because I'll have more money in my pocket bc this will eliminate welfare obviously. Everyone will be clamoring to have glamorous jobs like gas station employee and Kmart shoe attendant bc those will become the standard of high paying awesome jobs. Screw spending all that time and money to be a doctor or teaching little kids bitches I'ma work at Pizza Hut!
 

Dancing Fire

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packrat|1460761743|4019821 said:
They'll finally be able to afford the lobster on their own and not have to rely on welfare for it! It's win win. Sorry poor attempt at humor.

So really, I'll be coming out ahead. I have my para license and my child development associate and work with gen Ed and special Ed preschoolers. I make 10 bucks an hour. And that's after four years here..I didn't start out at this massive wage ohhhh no. I can *totally* get on board with someone speaking Charlie Brown adult talk to me at the mcd's drive thru and repeating my chicken nuggets and small fries back to me as mcdouble with a side salad large size with a coke making 5 dollars an hour more than I. Because I'll have more money in my pocket bc this will eliminate welfare obviously. Everyone will be clamoring to have glamorous jobs like gas station employee and Kmart shoe attendant bc those will become the standard of high paying awesome jobs. Screw spending all that time and money to be a doctor or teaching little kids bitches I'ma work at Pizza Hut!
+ no student loans to pay. Go work for Taco Bell right after you graduated from HS.
 

BeekeeperBetty

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Do you think doctors make $15 an hour? Especially in CA? It's less than 30,000 a year. Or were you joking? I couldn't tell.

People don't want to become doctors anymore for a lot of reasons but a higher minimum wage isn't one of them.
 

packrat

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I know Drs don't make 15 bucks an hour. I was being a smart ass on this assumption that handing me my curly fries is worth more than getting any sort of further education. The extra pay is going to come from somewhere and I'm gonna bet it's not going to come from ceo's taking a pay cut so the lower classes can make a living wage. If they wanted them to be paid a living wage they would pay them a living wage. There is no law stating employees of every company or business can only be paid minimum wage. Owners and employers of a lot of places (not mom and pop local places) could pay more. They choose not to in order to Scrooge mcduck it to themselves. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I made 20 million a year and my highest paid hourly peon made 20k. I would want them to be the best they could be and help them go to school while working so they could move on/move up and the next crop of young hopefuls could take their place. Not purposely keep people down and struggling. Raising wages of those with no education does nothing but put a band aid on the problem. And then Joe blow who didn't graduate high school makes more than I. So I should chuck my education and work the drive thru. That is utter nonsense to me.
 

House Cat

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I am in an inexpensive area of California. House prices are booming right now. The real estate market is very, very hot in my area. The median house price is just over $300,000. Because of this, property managers are scrambling to raise rents that were already very high.

$15/hr is $2400 per month on a 40 hour work week. Property managers will not rent to a person unless they make 3x the rent. This wage gives the ability to rent an $800 per month apartment. That isn't possible in my area. Rents start at $900 in the very worst conditions. A "normal" one bedroom is about $1100/month.

The average rent for a one bedroom apartment in California is over $1700/month. Here is a rent report for some of our other prices, like San Francisco and LA :https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/ca/california-rent-report-rentonomics/

A higher minimum wage is definitely needed in states where the cost of living is very high. Everything is more expensive in California.

I agree that the larger corporations will recoup their costs but the burden of those costs will be shared by everyone in very small, incremental ways. The McDonald's value menu might be $2.50 instead of $1.99. Walmart might charge an extra $.10 on their deoderant. I am OK with participating in sharing this cost if it means that hard working people with a limited skill set won't have to work three jobs so that they can provide for their families.

I am always amazed at how inexpensive it is to live in other parts of the country. I think to myself that if I were to ever move to another state where my house was only $125,000, I would have it paid off in three years and be living high on the hog with cheap groceries, gas, and real estate taxes. I wonder how it is that people even struggle in those areas of the country, because to me, everything seems so cheap. I really think this issue is about perspective. People don't truly understand either side until they have lived it for themselves.
 

hay joe

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For most of us, we reap what we have sown. Repetitive remedial tasks have less value than others. Entry level positions are just that, a place to start and no one succeeds by stopping at the start. It will lessen the incentive to better one's self.
 

packrat

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Things are cheap here-our house was 53k. That was almost 15 years ago and we still owe more than half on it. The town itself and the jobs available reflect that. You won't come here and work where we do and have your house paid off in three years. 12k a year doesn't go far...cheap is relative. Cheap to some is still expensive here.
 

House Cat

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hay joe|1460830009|4020068 said:
For most of us, we reap what we have sown. Repetitive remedial tasks have less value than others. Entry level positions are just that, a place to start and no one succeeds by stopping at the start. It will lessen the incentive to better one's self.
When I was 18 years old, I was a shift manager at Taco Bell. There were three men who worked there where English was their second language. They were legal immigrants. Each one of them had three jobs. The only "skills" they had were: hard working, even harder working, and the ability to survive on very little sleep.

Tell me, where would they have had the time to acquire new skills while working three jobs and sleeping four hours per night?

They were my store's best employees by leaps and bounds.


Your rhetoric does not apply in the real world. People have to feed their families. They have to house their families. There are only so many hours in the day. You judge if they go on public assistance to take the time to acquire new skills. You judge if they want more money when working hard. What is the right answer for you?
 

hay joe

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House Cat|1460832913|4020099 said:
hay joe|1460830009|4020068 said:
For most of us, we reap what we have sown. Repetitive remedial tasks have less value than others. Entry level positions are just that, a place to start and no one succeeds by stopping at the start. It will lessen the incentive to better one's self.
When I was 18 years old, I was a shift manager at Taco Bell. There were three men who worked there where English was their second language. They were legal immigrants. Each one of them had three jobs. The only "skills" they had were: hard working, even harder working, and the ability to survive on very little sleep.

Tell me, where would they have had the time to acquire new skills while working three jobs and sleeping four hours per night?

They were my store's best employees by leaps and bounds.


Your rhetoric does not apply in the real world. People have to feed their families. They have to house their families. There are only so many hours in the day. You judge if they go on public assistance to take the time to acquire new skills. You judge if they want more money when working hard. What is the right answer for you?
My rhetoric, real world, judge, judge.... you left out my skin color and religion.

"The only "skills" they had were: hard working, even harder working, and the ability to survive on very little sleep." So they did their best which is great. A very admirable thing to do. I'll bet they were willing to do this so their children could have a better life here in the United States. Again, a very admirable thing to do. Much like what my father did for me. That does not change the value of the services they provided. If you feel that a taco bell employee should be able to support a family and house good for you. You are free to believe as you which. I don't agree, and have no negative comments about your beliefs.
 

House Cat

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hay joe|1460840359|4020158 said:
House Cat|1460832913|4020099 said:
hay joe|1460830009|4020068 said:
For most of us, we reap what we have sown. Repetitive remedial tasks have less value than others. Entry level positions are just that, a place to start and no one succeeds by stopping at the start. It will lessen the incentive to better one's self.
When I was 18 years old, I was a shift manager at Taco Bell. There were three men who worked there where English was their second language. They were legal immigrants. Each one of them had three jobs. The only "skills" they had were: hard working, even harder working, and the ability to survive on very little sleep.

Tell me, where would they have had the time to acquire new skills while working three jobs and sleeping four hours per night?

They were my store's best employees by leaps and bounds.


Your rhetoric does not apply in the real world. People have to feed their families. They have to house their families. There are only so many hours in the day. You judge if they go on public assistance to take the time to acquire new skills. You judge if they want more money when working hard. What is the right answer for you?
My rhetoric, real world, judge, judge.... you left out my skin color and religion.

"The only "skills" they had were: hard working, even harder working, and the ability to survive on very little sleep." So they did their best which is great. A very admirable thing to do. I'll bet they were willing to do this so their children could have a better life here in the United States. Again, a very admirable thing to do. Much like what my father did for me. That does not change the value of the services they provided. If you feel that a taco bell employee should be able to support a family and house good for you. You are free to believe as you which. I don't agree, and have no negative comments about your beliefs.
Why in the world would I bring up your skin color or religion? What a strange thing for you to say.

Don't worry Joe/. As I have pointed out, at $15/HR no one is supporting their family in California.
 

hay joe

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At 15 dollars an hour for doing a repetitive remedial task they may become unemployed. That's my concern.
 

azstonie

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No one I went to high school with held jobs at McDonald's. We babysat, worked at gas stations or small stores or in our parents' businesses. Mowed lawns. The people working at McDonald's were part timers who were moms or men who'd been to prison and that was the best job they could find.

Today, the workers I see at McDonald's are adults, not high school students.

This "high school student" justification for slave wages/no benefits is BS.

And besides, how is working long hours every week in fast food a good use of time for high school students or college students, or really ANYONE? Ya got the rest of your life to work a $#itty job for $#itty pay in sweat shop conditions. As has been pointed out, there is no "next level skill set" to be acquired in fast food. I'd much rather see a high school or college student apply themselves to their education rather than shoving garbage-level food out a window to fat diabetics who can well afford to pay REAL MONEY for real food but just don't.

Honestly, I find Americans exhausting on this subject. You want to live in a society where only a fraction have medical insurance? Hey, you're the BEST, way to be compassionate and in line with your church dogma. You want to live in a society where the quality of medical care has plummeted because we don't educate our citizens at the right time in their lives, so while you lay on your butt in the assisted living facility expect bedsores and infections and unchanged diapers and bad food and rough handling because really, that's what you receive when the overworked immigrant or undereducated person assigned to you has been treated by society this way along the way. Expect that your air conditioner, your plumbing, your electrical, your gas, your car, your refrigerator, WHATEVER cannot be fixed because we are now a nation of numbskulls because everyone worshipped at the COLLEGE COLLEGE COLLEGE altar and vocational education and training went out the window. Whole city blocks blow up because of the idiot worker who backhoes where they should not, or the gas company gave up on maintenance because "it costs too much." Same thing for the infrastructure of the US---roads, bridges and the like. No complaining from you when the bridge crumbles from beneath you. You want low taxes and less government. Well you got it now, baby.

Because, hey, buying cheap shit at a constant rate is worth more to you than a healthy, educated and competent society.

I'm so sick of people who think they will be untouched by the have-nots and the dumbed down society the US has become. So sure, let's have LESS government (you love those airbags that kill you with shrapnel, highly contaminated drinking water, unbreathable air, bad roads, uninspected food sources and drugs, etc.).

And has been said already over on the Millenial threat, GET OFF MY LAWN YOU KIDS!
 

Gypsy

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hay joe|1460843518|4020172 said:
At 15 dollars an hour for doing a repetitive remedial task they may become unemployed. That's my concern.

Most people I know WANT to work. They don't want to sit on unemployment getting depressed day after day. They want to be active.

And you can't sit on unemployment indefinitely. That's just BS. You have to LOOK for work. There are conditions for it. And it expires.

I agree with azstone.
 

yssie

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azstonie|1460858942|4020248 said:
No one I went to high school with held jobs at McDonald's. We babysat, worked at gas stations or small stores or in our parents' businesses. Mowed lawns. The people working at McDonald's were part timers who were moms or men who'd been to prison and that was the best job they could find.

Today, the workers I see at McDonald's are adults, not high school students.

This "high school student" justification for slave wages/no benefits is BS.

And besides, how is working long hours every week in fast food a good use of time for high school students or college students, or really ANYONE? Ya got the rest of your life to work a $#itty job for $#itty pay in sweat shop conditions. As has been pointed out, there is no "next level skill set" to be acquired in fast food. I'd much rather see a high school or college student apply themselves to their education rather than shoving garbage-level food out a window to fat diabetics who can well afford to pay REAL MONEY for real food but just don't.

Honestly, I find Americans exhausting on this subject. You want to live in a society where only a fraction have medical insurance? Hey, you're the BEST, way to be compassionate and in line with your church dogma. You want to live in a society where the quality of medical care has plummeted because we don't educate our citizens at the right time in their lives, so while you lay on your butt in the assisted living facility expect bedsores and infections and unchanged diapers and bad food and rough handling because really, that's what you receive when the overworked immigrant or undereducated person assigned to you has been treated by society this way along the way. Expect that your air conditioner, your plumbing, your electrical, your gas, your car, your refrigerator, WHATEVER cannot be fixed because we are now a nation of numbskulls because everyone worshipped at the COLLEGE COLLEGE COLLEGE altar and vocational education and training went out the window. Whole city blocks blow up because of the idiot worker who backhoes where they should not, or the gas company gave up on maintenance because "it costs too much." Same thing for the infrastructure of the US---roads, bridges and the like. No complaining from you when the bridge crumbles from beneath you. You want low taxes and less government. Well you got it now, baby.

Because, hey, buying cheap shit at a constant rate is worth more to you than a healthy, educated and competent society.

I'm so sick of people who think they will be untouched by the have-nots and the dumbed down society the US has become. So sure, let's have LESS government (you love those airbags that kill you with shrapnel, highly contaminated drinking water, unbreathable air, bad roads, uninspected food sources and drugs, etc.).

And has been said already over on the Millenial threat, GET OFF MY LAWN YOU KIDS!
Just... Yes. Thank you. To every last word.

I agree that raising the minimum wage without other actions - tax reform, anyone? - isn't going to achieve a darned thing.
Well - besides raise unemployment, and force many more people into part time positions sans benefits.
 

VirginiaZee

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Yssie said:
I agree that raising the minimum wage without other actions - tax reform, anyone? - isn't going to achieve a darned thing.
Well - besides raise unemployment, and force many more people into part time positions sans benefits.
This. I have a friend in backwoods Oregon, she's working retail and is worried about hours or positions being cut. It seems that there are no easy answers.
 

Sphene

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Sure after the Companies have raised prices to cover the new minimum wage it will not be long before it will have to be reviewed has it will no longer serve the purpose it was introduced to eradicate. I see a never ending circle or is that just me.
 

Queenie60

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Our society has lost respect for the blue collar worker. I see it daily, especially in the environment where I live, The Silicon Valley. Everyone is programmed to believe that they need to be a CEO, Doctor, Lawyer, etc. We have lost sight of the trades, the electricians, plumbers, gardeners, etc. All of these jobs are quite important - we need to rethink these things. When I was growing up we had auto body shop, wood working, home making, "tradesman" type skills taught at the high school level. This allowed the not so academic student to find something they could do for a livable wage. These kids are now lost in the academic system and have no where to turn as adults but the minimum wage jobs. I'm not sure what the answer is - most people I know want to work. The cost of living has been rising steadily so maybe it's time to raise the minimum wage.
 

hay joe

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Gypsy|1460863281|4020266 said:
hay joe|1460843518|4020172 said:
At 15 dollars an hour for doing a repetitive remedial task they may become unemployed. That's my concern.

Most people I know WANT to work. They don't want to sit on unemployment getting depressed day after day. They want to be active.

And you can't sit on unemployment indefinitely. That's just BS. You have to LOOK for work. There are conditions for it. And it expires.

I agree with azstone.
The business owners will find ways to offset or eliminate these costs. Automation and fewer workers are surely in their future plans. Both mean fewer jobs.
 

moneymeister

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We used to make things. Thirty years ago there were factory jobs for the folks that chose not to go to school. Those are gone.
We dissolved much of our blue-collar middle class and sent it to China. We can pay more at the minimum wage level, but not sure that addresses the problem.

American companies can't afford to produce American Widgets for the same cost as a Chinese Widget. Americans can't afford to buy American widgets because their jobs went to China. Google Chinese middle class.

Increasing the price of widget labor won't make widget production (employment) increase.We need our jobs back from other countries. To be consumers you have to be producers too. Well, unless you decide to supplement the people...and here we are at a $15.00 minimum to flip burgers because our citizens can't afford to starve.
 

hay joe

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azstone,

My son worked at McDonald's when he was in high school. He learned the value of work, work ethics, more personal responsibility, to budget money and most importantly he learned he did not want to work at McDonald's the rest of his life. Life skills.

Slave wages, sweat shop you say. No, entry level wages. A place to start for some and a good job for others. That's up to the person working there to figure out. There is no shame in working at McDonald's.

Medical insurance, mine has gone up $246.00 per month plus a $4600.00 out of pocket before it kicks in. Thanks ACA.

" Hey, you're the BEST, way to be compassionate and in line with your church dogma." My compassion is personal, one person to an other. It needs no government or law and has no waste.

"highly contaminated drinking water" Flint was a growing city at one time. All do to the consumers who purchased products from the auto manufactures. As the cost of making that product increased the price of the product increased. Some of the increase was due to higher wages and regulation. Consumers started buying that product from manufactures in other parts of the world. Fewer workers=fewer taxes=less funds for infrastructure.

Ok let me put like this. They tax cigarettes heavily. One reason is to detour buyers due to the high cost.

I am not a person who looks to the government for help or answer. It has its place but creating inflation is not one of them.

My lawn was planted for the kids and dogs to play on, with out help from the government. No help from the government imagine that.
 

Gypsy

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40,198
VirginiaZee|1460867251|4020298 said:
Yssie said:
I agree that raising the minimum wage without other actions - tax reform, anyone? - isn't going to achieve a darned thing.
Well - besides raise unemployment, and force many more people into part time positions sans benefits.
This. I have a friend in backwoods Oregon, she's working retail and is worried about hours or positions being cut. It seems that there are no easy answers.

It's not like the minimum wage is going up tomorrow. In most states it's incremental raises until in a few years it finally hits $15. I don't think it's going have the impact people fear on these types of jobs.
 
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