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What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better one.

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
I've been looking on and off for a diamond for an engagement ring for over 6 months now. I spotted a diamond that seemed to have excellent specs (1.61ct, H, IF, GIA, excellent polish and symmetry), but it's priced somewhat lower than other diamonds that have lower specs. And while other diamonds have come and gone, I see this diamond still listed throughout these 6 months. Sounds too good to be true, so I'm guessing there's something wrong with this diamond that I just don't recognize.

This is the diamond in question:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R161-FSPF8F

What's wrong with it? Their proprietary "cut score" is 100 and it has a low HCA number when I plug it into the calculator. And shouldn't IF diamonds be more expensive? I'm ok with the H color (I couldn't spot the difference between D/E/F and H in stores). And I imagine medium blue fluorescence is OK.

This price, size and shape is about where I want it to be. The only down side is that I live in NY, so taxes makes this much more expensive upfront. Can anyone point me to another diamond in this price range ($10k-$14K) and size (1.6ct+) that's a better bang for my buck?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Ask ED if the diamond had a brown tint.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Jimmianne|1454755976|3987646 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-h-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-725837
Definitely ask if it has a brown tint.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Gypsy|1454756339|3987647 said:
Jimmianne|1454755976|3987646 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-h-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-725837
Definitely ask if it has a brown tint.
Perhaps I don't understand these diamond specs as much as I thought. Did you suspect a brown tint prior to seeing the diamond or did you catch it from their picture? Based on the James Allen site, I see that it is somewhat yellow from the side, but all the H diamonds seem to have that same yellowness. I don't quite see a brown tint. And wouldn't the brown tint alter the color rating and make it lower than H?

Thanks for your help.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Most diamonds have tint. D doesn't have any. And an M will have a visible tint. It's a spectrum. The grade assigned measures the INTENSITY of the tint. Not the color of the tint.

The color of the tint also matters. Most white diamonds have a yellow tint, diamonds have a pink tint, some will have a grey tint, some have a brown tint.Those are discounted by the trade. Brown diamonds are not considered as desirable. An H with a brown tint will look very similar to an H with a yellow tint, because they are both H, in terms of intensity of the tint. But the SHADE of the tint will be different.

And yes, from both the pictures on ED and JA coupled with the price (remember brown is discounted) make me suspect that it COULD have a brown tint. The gemologist will tell you if it does.

Some say that a brown tint will actually make a diamond face up whiter. I don't know if that's true. But if it becomes an issue you can post a new thread titled "Experts please weigh in, brown tint on H stone" and they can tell you what their experience has been.

I'm only guessing though. So you need to talk to the vendors and ask them if the stone has a brown tint. They will be honest with you.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Thanks for your response. I had no clue that the color rating was only for intensity and that the tint was not a part of that rating. That makes shopping for a diamond so much harder since I can't spot the brown tint from those sample shots. If I ask the vendors and they say they don't believe there is a brown tint (because they are looking at the same photos/videos I'm looking at), is there any other explanation for why this diamond costs less than other, similarly spec'd diamonds.

Does anyone know of a reliable seller in NYC that will give me internet-comparable pricing? Putting down so much money on something I know so little about is frightening. I was considering paying an internet guy $100 or so to help me find a good diamond, but I wonder if I can trust these people.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

ghostm42|1454819427|3987930 said:
...is there any other explanation for why this diamond costs less than other, similarly spec'd diamonds.

There are many factors that can affect the price of a diamond other than the characteristics of the diamond - for example, perhaps it's a stone that's been sitting in stock for a few years and the seller just wants to get rid of it and make their money back (an H IF would be a pretty hard stone to move through your inventory quickly) - or perhaps the seller has some bills to pay, so they need to move some stock - - there may be nothing wrong with the stone itself, so it might be worth asking some questions.

I was considering paying an internet guy $100 or so to help me find a good diamond, but I wonder if I can trust these people.

This can be a good idea...if you know who you're dealing with. There are allot of people online claiming they can get you 'the best deal', but more often than not, they're affiliated with a particular vendor(s).

Hope this helps
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

I personally wouldn't advise anyone to pay 100 dollars for someone to find you a diamond when we do that for free for people every day.

You are on here.

Why not tell us what your budget it is what the range of specs (color, clarity, size, weight, shape) you want for that, and we can look for you and recommend stones.

Seriously, between just diamondseeker and me we have more experience finding stones for people than the top 3 of those sites that I know of. They specialize in demonizing the industry and making you fear it.

We don't. We specialize in giving you the tools you need to make a good decision and recommending stones to you that we personally would buy.
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

IF goods are usually harder to move and may be priced slightly more discounted. Fluorescence also discounts the stone just because it's harder move and presents an opportunity for the buyer to strike a bargain.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Did you ask the vendor?

The fluorescence is medium blue. Which is actually nice in an H.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Gypsy|1454836329|3987957 said:
I personally wouldn't advise anyone to pay 100 dollars for someone to find you a diamond when we do that for free for people every day.

You are on here.

Why not tell us what your budget it is what the range of specs (color, clarity, size, weight, shape) you want for that, and we can look for you and recommend stones.

Seriously, between just diamondseeker and me we have more experience finding stones for people than the top 3 of those sites that I know of. They specialize in demonizing the industry and making you fear it.

We don't. We specialize in giving you the tools you need to make a good decision and recommending stones to you that we personally would buy.
I would really appreciate that.

I asked the JamesAllen ask the expert thing and he indicated that he didn't see a brown tint (he's using the same video we are) and felt the lower price was due to the medium fluorescence. He seemed to be recommending to put this diamond in a halo. I asked for another similar diamond and he found one that had a poorer HCA number (3.6) and poorer clarity, but no fluorescence. It didn't seem like a good trade-off in my opinion.

The specs I've been searching have been:
Round
1.6-1.8ct
Price: < $15000 (preferably closer to $13K)
Cut: Ideal (HCA < 2)
Color: D-H
Clarity: FL-VVS2
GIA
Symmetry: ex
Polish: ex
Fluorescence: None-Medium

Clearly, at this price range, I imagine I'm closer to the H side of the spectrum and smaller size. This has been unscientific. I just kept narrowing the criteria to get the best size and cut for the money. I've seen my sister's ring, which is a 1.5ct, I, SI1 and it looked good to my untrained eye. So in reality, I'm fairly flexible. I just want the best bang for my buck. My gf doesn't wear much jewelry and is petite, so I'm considering a solitaire for her.

I have the benefit of being in NYC fairly often to visit diamond stores in person (though it's intimidating), but the upfront taxes ends up being over $800. That's why some of the other non-NY shops are appealing to me if I'm buying online (Adiamor, Salomon Brothers).

gr8leo87 said:
IF goods are usually harder to move and may be priced slightly more discounted. Fluorescence also discounts the stone just because it's harder move and presents an opportunity for the buyer to strike a bargain.
The IF being discounted seems paradoxical. I'd imagine it would be in high demand because it looks good on paper. Fluorescence, I understand, but I kinda like it. Though I hear it can turn the diamond cloudy if it's overwhelming.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Actually, instead of providing all these specs that I only partially understand, maybe I should be asking: what would you get for this price ($15K, preferably around $13K or less)? I'd like it to be 1.5ct+ (ideally, around 1.6ct). Not sure it's reasonable to get a quality diamond at this price/size point, so correct me if I'm wrong.
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

ghostm42 said:
Gypsy|1454836329|3987957 said:
I personally wouldn't advise anyone to pay 100 dollars for someone to find you a diamond when we do that for free for people every day.

You are on here.

Why not tell us what your budget it is what the range of specs (color, clarity, size, weight, shape) you want for that, and we can look for you and recommend stones.

Seriously, between just diamondseeker and me we have more experience finding stones for people than the top 3 of those sites that I know of. They specialize in demonizing the industry and making you fear it.

We don't. We specialize in giving you the tools you need to make a good decision and recommending stones to you that we personally would buy.
I would really appreciate that.

I asked the JamesAllen ask the expert thing and he indicated that he didn't see a brown tint (he's using the same video we are) and felt the lower price was due to the medium fluorescence. He seemed to be recommending to put this diamond in a halo. I asked for another similar diamond and he found one that had a poorer HCA number (3.6) and poorer clarity, but no fluorescence. It didn't seem like a good trade-off in my opinion.

The specs I've been searching have been:
Round
1.6-1.8ct
Price: < $15000 (preferably closer to $13K)
Cut: Ideal (HCA < 2)
Color: D-H
Clarity: FL-VVS2
GIA
Symmetry: ex
Polish: ex
Fluorescence: None-Medium

Clearly, at this price range, I imagine I'm closer to the H side of the spectrum and smaller size. This has been unscientific. I just kept narrowing the criteria to get the best size and cut for the money. I've seen my sister's ring, which is a 1.5ct, I, SI1 and it looked good to my untrained eye. So in reality, I'm fairly flexible. I just want the best bang for my buck. My gf doesn't wear much jewelry and is petite, so I'm considering a solitaire for her.

I have the benefit of being in NYC fairly often to visit diamond stores in person (though it's intimidating), but the upfront taxes ends up being over $800. That's why some of the other non-NY shops are appealing to me if I'm buying online (Adiamor, Salomon Brothers).

gr8leo87 said:
IF goods are usually harder to move and may be priced slightly more discounted. Fluorescence also discounts the stone just because it's harder move and presents an opportunity for the buyer to strike a bargain.
The IF being discounted seems paradoxical. I'd imagine it would be in high demand because it looks good on paper. Fluorescence, I understand, but I kinda like it. Though I hear it can turn the diamond cloudy if it's overwhelming.
I have bought IF stones at VVS1 list price several times in my career. :)
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

ghostm42 said:
Actually, instead of providing all these specs that I only partially understand, maybe I should be asking: what would you get for this price ($15K, preferably around $13K or less)? I'd like it to be 1.5ct+ (ideally, around 1.6ct). Not sure it's reasonable to get a quality diamond at this price/size point, so correct me if I'm wrong.
The stone in question on this thread is a pretty good one in my opinion. I can't comment on vendor stones as from the trade but if I were allowed i would say nice things. The stone doesn't appear brown. Also brown hue is more relevant in I- stones.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

You don't need such high clarity, something you can't see, eating up your budget.

IF the GEMOLOGIST says that the stone doesn't have a brown tint (not the sale person, they are useless) then that stone is a great buy.

At JA:

You do not run HCA on AGS0 stones:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-631112 No Fluorescence though.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.60-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-631109 idealscope shows great performance
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.59-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-381318 Saves you a ton

I'll look at ED for you too.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

Gypsy|1454900661|3988216 said:
You don't need such high clarity, something you can't see, eating up your budget.

IF the GEMOLOGIST says that the stone doesn't have a brown tint (not the sale person, they are useless) then that stone is a great buy.

At JA:

You do not run HCA on AGS0 stones:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-631112 No Fluorescence though.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.60-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-631109 idealscope shows great performance
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.59-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-381318 Saves you a ton

I'll look at ED for you too.
Thanks. I will look into these. My girlfriend is off from work today due to snow, so I've had to sneak onto this forum when she's not around. Sorry for the limited responses.

How do you get a gemologist to comment on the tint of the stone prior to buying it?

Gypsy said:
I'd buy this one, or put it on hold:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-1-6-Carat-G-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-CDT864 Beautiful, idealscope and ASET are great. G color. The size you want. Nice spread and medium blue to boot. AND 12k!!!
:love:
This looks quite nice too. Between this and the original one I posted, if the original one didn't have a brown tint, which is better? The price difference for bank wire is about $500.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

ghostm42|1454946394|3988376 said:
This looks quite nice too. Between this and the original one I posted, if the original one didn't have a brown tint, which is better? The price difference for bank wire is about $500.
I think the G that Gypsy posted is nicer.

H IF can be a weird combo or one that is difficult to sell. Someone wanting IF clarity would likely want a higher color typically D-F. If H color is fine then they'll more than likely settle for lower clarity as well, VS2-SI1.


G VS1 is a very nice combo IMO. Eye clean and nicely white. With some H diamonds I can see a little tint.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: What's wrong with this diamond? Help finding a better on

solgen|1454951246|3988409 said:
ghostm42|1454946394|3988376 said:
This looks quite nice too. Between this and the original one I posted, if the original one didn't have a brown tint, which is better? The price difference for bank wire is about $500.
I think the G that Gypsy posted is nicer.

H IF can be a weird combo or one that is difficult to sell. Someone wanting IF clarity would likely want a higher color typically D-F. If H color is fine then they'll more than likely settle for lower clarity as well, VS2-SI1.


G VS1 is a very nice combo IMO. Eye clean and nicely white. With some H diamonds I can see a little tint.
I agree. GVS1 is a sweet apot.
 
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