What's the difference between a diamond and a FCD?

[txgreeneyes]

I know the question sounds derpy, but there aren't many characters allowed in the title.

What's the difference between a diamond classified as color W- X and a light fancy colored yellow diamond?

I was just browsing at Diamonds by Lauren. I think I check that website almost every day. Been eyeing and obsessing over another ring.

Saw this pretty ring. The diamond is internal flawless.

Color is king with colored gemstones, but given the chance to own a IF, well...

Anyway, here's the link.

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-diamond-ring-55ct-w-x-internally-flawless-cushion-cut-gia-pink-halo-r5655

I'm not getting this ring, but I'm curious on what makes a W-X diamond into a fancy yellow diamond.

W - X are not coveted. So, is it just marketing?

 

[Michael_E]

I'm not getting this ring, but I'm curious on what makes a W-X diamond into a fancy yellow diamond.

W - X are not coveted. So, is it just marketing?

The technical answer is "more nitrogen in the crystal structure". This leads to more intense color which leads to higher pricing. W-X stones are coveted more than M-N colors, just not as much as "Fancy" colors. It's all about either marketing or what YOU like, depending on if you're buying to impress or buying for yourself.

 

[Amour_Et_Diamants]

It's marketing. A diamond to color Z is still a white diamond, but once it's graded to have more color than Z, it's then a fancy color by GIA standards.
[url=https://www.pricescope.com/wi.../www.pricescope.com/wiki/fancy-color-diamonds [/url]

 

[Amour_Et_Diamants]

I'm not getting this ring, but I'm curious on what makes a W-X diamond into a fancy yellow diamond.

W - X are not coveted. So, is it just marketing?

The technical answer is "more nitrogen in the crystal structure". This leads to more intense color which leads to higher pricing. W-X stones are coveted more than M-N colors, just not as much as "Fancy" colors. It's all about either marketing or what YOU like, depending on if you're buying to impress or buying for yourself.

I like this analysis

 

[lambskin]

Fascinating. Is there any image of a beautiful X-Z stone compared to the next in line Fancy Yellow that is beyond a Z?

 

[chrono]

A diamond needs to hit a certain minimum threshold of yellow before it is considered in the fancy range. As you can see in the unset picture, the yellow is extremely light, almost "blush" or slightly tinted. When bezeled in yellow and cupped, the yellow is amped to look as though it is a fancy light yellow.

The 4 diamonds on the left are in the U-V through X-Y-Z range. The rest are Fancy Light Yellow, Fancy Yellow, Fancy Intense Yellow, Fancy Vivid Yellow and Fancy Deep Yellow.

 

[kenny]

It's marketing, but it's not.

GIA decides whether a diamond fits into their D-Z scale or their Fancy Colored Diamond scale.
They don't flip a coin or follow their hearts when deciding which pile to place a diamond in.
There is a physical/visual difference, and that is not marketing.

The difference might be subtle but so is the difference between a D and an E, and that nearly-invisible difference also results in a huge price difference.

Yes, diamonds from each pile are marketed differently.
FCDs will go to different vendors and we all know the price difference of the piles.
But it is not accurate to say they are the same thing and the only difference is marketing.

I'm going to get beat up for saying this but those on the FCD scale are more likely to have a clean attractive yellow than those on the D-Z scale.
People can get all sensitive and upset and say, "Equal rights for all yellows and my T is just lovely, thank you very much."
Yes, and likewise an SI2 can be gorgeous, but no matter how much you love it it's not a VVS1.
Good, bad, right or wrong VVS1s cost more than SI2s and FCDs cost more than M-Zs no matter how similar certain examples from the two piles look.

Just as with other characteristics like clarity, the market (price) is the result of supply and demand and there is more demand for the cleanest prettiest yellows.
If you happen to prefer what is less costly in the market, count your lucky stars.

 

[Demon]

It's marketing, but it's not.

GIA decides whether a diamond fits into their D-Z scale or their Fancy Colored Diamond scale.
They don't flip a coin or follow their hearts when deciding which pile to place a diamond in.
There is a physical/visual difference, and that is not marketing.

The difference might be subtle but so is the difference between a D and an E, and that nearly-invisible difference also results in a huge price difference.

Yes, diamonds from each pile are marketed differently.
FCDs will go to different vendors and we all know the price difference of the piles.
But it is not accurate to say they are the same thing and the only difference is marketing.

I'm going to get beat up for saying this but those on the FCD scale are more likely to have a clean attractive yellow than those on the D-Z scale.
People can get all sensitive and upset and say, "Equal rights for all yellows and my T is just lovely, thank you very much."
Yes, and likewise an SI2 can be gorgeous, but no matter how much you love it it's not a VVS1.
Good, bad, right or wrong VVS1s cost more than SI2s and FCDs cost more than M-Zs no matter how similar certain examples from the two piles look.

That's weird - my post blended with Kenny's. But mine starts here.

It probably varies some with different diamonds, but I agree with you on the difference in yellow between D-Z and fancies. My W-X looks quite yellow at times, particularly when louped, and looks purely yellow. But put it next to my fancy yellow and the W-X seems more of a golden yellow than a pure yellow.

Just as with other characteristics like clarity, the market (price) is the result of supply and demand and there is more demand for the cleanest prettiest yellows.
If you happen to prefer what is less costly in the market, count your lucky stars.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting thread for sure
In my experience, the consistency of the grades at the lower end of the alphabet will never be as consistent as the grading of colorless stones. Basically, it's far easier to grade the absence of color, as opposed to grading the presence and purity of color.
GIA does not use machines to grade color and the peculiarities of color and diamonds make it unlikely it will ever be possible to do so.

The photo posted by Chrono highlights one reason why.
Shape and cutting style affects color.
An RBC, or emerald cut graded U-V color will broadcast far less color than a cushion diamond cut to show color.
It's a lovely shot- but would be far more informative if all the stones had comparable cutting styles.

Then we have purity of color.
GIA will generally note the presence of brown, for example. But there's been many cases of stones showing brown that GIA did not note.

Fluorescence is another biggie in affecting how color is perceived. And that aspect is a wildcard- generally negative, but not always.

The net result is that the darkest stones GIA grades Y-Z are going to have more color than the lightest ones getting the Fancy Light Yellow grade.
I've seen this time and again.

 

[chrono]

David,
I agree that different cuts will retain colour better than others but no matter what, grading is done face up and each stone must meet a certain colour threshold to fall into a specific colour category, regardless of shape. This is why it is incredibly rare to see a vivid emerald cut yellow FCD but radiants are more common. I, too, would love to see all rounds or all radiants arranged by colour grading but unless you have any examples, I have not found any.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great points raised again Chrono!
1) Color grading methodology- maybe 30 years of diamonds will chime in here.....Colorless are graded through the pavilion- we know that- but at what point does GIA start using face up to determine color grading?

Practical experience has shown me that a W-X RBC does not look very yellow, while a cushion may.
Or put into more broad terms- there is a lack of consistency in face up color on stones at the bottom of the alphabet- and indeed this condition also exists in FLY, FY, FIY and FVY

2) Examples of photos showing differences....we can work on that one

 

[AN0NYM0US]

IMO a diamond isn't a FANCY colored diamond until it has been graded FANCY light or higher.

 

[Rockdiamond]

For discussions sake.....
Is a diamond GIA grades "Light Blue" or "Light Pink" an FCD?

 

[pinkjewel]

For discussions sake.....
Is a diamond GIA grades "Light Blue" or "Light Pink" an FCD?

IMHO- yes

 

[movie zombie]

confession: had I been able to source an U-Z diamond, I might not have gotten my spess for my e-ring.
no regrets but they just did not seem available at the time.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

For discussions sake.....
Is a diamond GIA grades "Light Blue" or "Light Pink" an FCD?

I'd say no, it's a colored diamond.

IMO it's all arguing semantics.

 

[chrono]

Doesn't GIA call it Fancy Light X? If so, then any Light Blue or Light Pink is considered a Fancy Coloured Diamond.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

Doesn't GIA call it Fancy Light X? If so, then any Light Blue or Light Pink is considered a Fancy Coloured Diamond.

There is a grade of Light Blue and then there's a grade Fancy Light Blue.

Faint
Very Light
Light
Fancy Light
Fancy
Fancy Intense
Fancy Vivid
Fancy Deep

A diamond that is Y-Z color, would fall under the "Light Yellow" grade. Faint yellow could be a "K" color diamond. There is overlap in the grading where a stone could be called two different grades. It's somewhat confusing. For me a stone isn't "Fancy" until it is no longer under the D-Z scale, which happens at "Fancy Light"

 

[Rockdiamond]

Doesn't GIA call it Fancy Light X? If so, then any Light Blue or Light Pink is considered a Fancy Coloured Diamond.

Actually not Chrono. In the case of blue pink or green – and I can't recall any other colors at this time – GIA will give a grade of "Light Pink" without the word fancy
Ps- I'm working on a comparison shot for you

 

[chrono]

I get what you all mean now. The reason there is no Faint, Very Light and Light category for yellow diamonds is because they are covered under the "colourless" diamond category as K to Z. Since Light Blue and Light Pink diamonds do not fall into any other category, I think they should be considered FCDs.

David,
Looking forward to your comparison line up!

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I get what you all mean now. The reason there is no Faint, Very Light and Light category for yellow diamonds is because they are covered under the "colourless" diamond category as K to Z. Since Light Blue and Light Pink diamonds do not fall into any other category, I think they should be considered FCDs.

There is a Faint, Very Light and Light category for Yellows and Browns. It accompanies the "Letter" grade. It reads K, Faint Brown or Y-Z, Light Yellow. To confuse this more, GIA doesn't always/often note the "faint" on the "K" diamond or the "Light Yellow" on the Y-Z and I have no idea why. Maybe David could help me out on that.


I find the lack of D-Z in pink, green and blue confusing. I would prefer to see K, Faint Pink instead of just Faint Pink. I suppose it would cost quite a bit to compile a master set

BTW, would you consider this a FCD?



It was graded as "Light Yellow" and "W-X" and it's on a "Colored Diamond" report.

 

[chrono]

It appears to be inconsistent; perhaps those starting from K onwards, should have a secondary colour grading such as Y-Z, Light Yellow as shown in your example picture? Would semantics such as Y-Z and Light Yellow have an effect on pricing, meaning someone might price a Y-Z lower than a Light Yellow (if the paperwork has only 1 grade shown)?

 

[AN0NYM0US]

It appears to be inconsistent; perhaps those starting from K onwards, should have a secondary colour grading such as Y-Z, Light Yellow as shown in your example picture? Would semantics such as Y-Z and Light Yellow have an effect on pricing, meaning someone might price a Y-Z lower than a Light Yellow (if the paperwork has only 1 grade shown)?

I think it would help consumers, but as you said probably make stones seem less desirable to some. I think you would see a huge drop off in K colored stones if they all had a color grade after them.

IIRC you can't get just a "light yellow" grade on a report, even on a colored diamond report. If it is Y-Z and below it will have that grade as well. Only Pink, blue, green can/will get a "light" title only since they don't grade them on the D-Z. Clear as mud right? Hopefully someone can explain this better than me.

I believe all (D-Z) grades after a certain point always have the stones color (yellow/brown) listed. So all Y-Z's will say Y-Z, Light Brown (or Yellow). I may be wrong on that. But if I'm not, does anyone know when the mandatory labeling of the color (Yellow/Brown) comes in to play?

 

[kenny]

I did not know that GIA never issues the three grades Faint Yellow, Very Light Yellow or Light Yellow on their Colored Diamond Report.

This reminds me of how the hue Red only comes in one of the nine Tone/Saturation grades, Fancy Red.
There's no such thing as a Fancy Intense Red, or a Fancy Light Red … those all being called Pink.

And isn't it weird how the hue Pink has all nine levels? …
Why aren't there eight with the ninth reserved for Red?

Lots of quirks in GIA's FCD grading system.

 

[Rockdiamond]

As promised- I labeled this one- the stones are in the same order in all photos


Table down ( please excuse the somewhat soiled tray)...


More...

 

[chrono]

David,
The pictures are so cool! Thanks.

 

[T L]

Thanks for posting these David. I think "Fancy Light Yellow" has some glare on it in this photo though, which may impede the accuracy, but overall, these photos are very helpful. It would be nice if you included a fancy deep and fancy vivid as well.

 

[LoversKites]

Thank you David!

 

[LoversKites]

Thank you David!

 

[Rockdiamond]

You're very welcome guys!!!
TL- you're correct about the glare on the FLY- if you look at the vertical photo, it's a bit better.
It's really difficult getting all the stones to line up and be in the light.


I was thinking of throwing a Vivid in- we don't have a deep right now
I will say the stones looks like a little rainbow in the lightbox very fun!!

To the points above about semantics- 100% true IMO.
What's the difference what we call a diamond's color. What matters is how each observer feels about it.

With regard to GIA, it's true, they don't make it easy.

One of my favorite cutters- who used to cut a lot of the lower alphabet stones we sold- always went for a half report (GIA Color Origin) on stones lighter than FLY- due to semantics.
If you get a full GIA report, the color will simply say "U-V Range"
The color Origin Report calls the same color "U-V Range Light Yellow"

The sad part of that story is that it's no longer feasible to buy the rough needed and cut in New York City - except on a limited basis....so my buddy does not cut these stone that much anymore.