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Whats the deal! "Face up" colors! Expert opinions please;)

Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Messages
20
Ive been looking for a diamond. Trying to get a i or j color, because i am sacrificing size . So larger, with bit lower color, .

During my on and off 5 year search ive learned a LOT. And many jewelers have talked about a diamond 'facing up'whiter than its gia or ags stated color.


I know that stones are grated when they are face down. And that is how they come up with the colir. So do they change color when they're set face up? I tend to think the answer is no.

Is it the cut that makes a color appear whiter?

I know flourescence has some help to make a lower color look whiter. But then why would they grade an I , an I. And a J, a J.. At the end of the day I is an i. And a j is a J. No matter what the fluorescence is. Even if it's medium or strong. Helping it look or appear whiter in certain lites, it will not look whiter and it will be truly a j that is stated.

Is this just a trick to try to sell ? Its confusing! Screenshot_20200530-085136.jpg All of your expert opinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
5,032
Ive been looking for a diamond. Trying to get a i or j color, because i am sacrificing size . So larger, with bit lower color, .

During my on and off 5 year search ive learned a LOT. And many jewelers have talked about a diamond 'facing up'whiter than its gia or ags stated color.


I know that stones are grated when they are face down. And that is how they come up with the colir. So do they change color when they're set face up? I tend to think the answer is no.

Is it the cut that makes a color appear whiter?

I know flourescence has some help to make a lower color look whiter. But then why would they grade an I , an I. And a J, a J.. At the end of the day I is an i. And a j is a J. No matter what the fluorescence is. Even if it's medium or strong. Helping it look or appear whiter in certain lites, it will not look whiter and it will be truly a j that is stated.

Is this just a trick to try to sell ? Its confusing! Screenshot_20200530-085136.jpg All of your expert opinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you
CUT is extremely important, not just to influence face-up size, and mask color, but to maximize performance.
Fluorescence can positively impact a lower color stone by giving it whiter face-up appearance.
However, your main concern for SIZE should not be carat weight, but rather, SPREAD in mm.
 

Moonie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
190
My jeweler told me that they grade it facing "down" because the color is most concentrated near the pavilion, so for consistency this is what they do for non-fancy colors. So I do agree that when you put it face up, the spread, and the way the light hits causes the diamond to look less concentrated in color than through the side and face-down. And a well-cut diamond will reflect light better, so the stone will look "whiter" face-up.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,889
Fancy color diamonds are graded face up - allowing the effect of the cut to bias the color grade [relative to the color of the diamond alone - as if not cut], because the effect of the cut can be very substantial. The effect of a bright cut with high contrast is - spectacular, for any color grade of the rough, as long as the light around allows brilliance, for the H&A, this is very often true.

2c
 
Last edited:

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,312
Diamond color grading is.....interesting, to say the least.
A decision was made, at some point in time- to grade colorless diamonds face down- through the pavilion.
As AV mentioned, Fancy Colored Diamonds are graded in what seems to be a much more sensible manner.
But the real issue is that the color of a diamond is not static- it changes based on many factors. This means whatever color we settle upon, it won't always be accurate.
In the case of RBC diamonds, I-J-K-L colors, there are many factors at play. So one J color looks really yellow, the next does not.
Fluorescence, and the way the stone is cut are likely the two main culprits- but even then....we can't make workable hard and fast rules that will apply to each and every stone.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,889
Diamond color ... changes based on many factors.

I feel that D to K is very close to the range of light color or temperature dawn to dusk - a beautiful story to shoot one day.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,312
I feel that D to K is very close to the range of light color or temperature dawn to dusk -
Interesting....many times I've used the example of a Chestnut Mare. THe color looks totally different at 7 am from 7pm......100% different.....diamond color is far closer to this, than say...a wall painted yellow. Even the wall changes...but not nearly as much as the natural color of the horse...or a diamond.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,889
@Rockdiamond Diamond color grades mock my instinct of 'white balance' - however it works; their brightest reflections are the whitest light around, down to some limit.
 
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