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What would you do?

periwinklegirl

periwinklegirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
1,007
Hello Ladies,
Sorry I haven't been as active lately on the forum (my keyboard tray broke, among other things).

I would like to call upon your advice and wisdom. Here's my story, I want to know what you you think I should do.

Remember my lovely baroque Golden South Seas? (Here are some pics).

Well, I took them to my jeweler recently because she said they would benefit from a very light buffing.
(I'm pretty sure Pearl Paradise pearls all have this done. At least my jeweler said none of my PP strands would benefit from polishing. Pattye and Pearliscious, maybe you could tell us if this is common in the trade?)

And guess what? She said they were dyed! And she showed me (it was obvious once pointed out). And then proved it to me by very lightly buffing one (I chose which one). They are much paler gold in real life and slightly greenish. They were dyed to enhance the gold and make it a deeper colour.

So, I was somewhat outraged, but waited until I calmed down and then contacted the vendor. This was not a small purchase for me (about $400 - I know it's not that much in the grand scheme of saltwater pearls, but it was a lot to me!). I expressed my disappointment as politely as possible.

And just to clarify, I am not trying to return the pearls. She has a no returns policy and on top of that, I've just had them buffed, so they are no longer in the original condition.

Well, I just heard back from her and this is what she said:
"I feel as though you are implying that I intentionally deceived you. Which is not at all the case. Nowhere in my discussions with my vendor was I told the goldens were treated"

If she's an experienced pearl vendor (and she has thousands of dollars worth of loose pearls listed on Etsy plus her jewelry), shouldn't she be able to tell if a pearl is dyed?

And isn't she responsible even if she was deceived too?
I'm not trying to say that she intentionally deceived me, (and I don't want to cast a slur on her professional reputation). But I am disappointed and upset, and I do hold her responsible. And I think, even if I'm not trying to return the pearls, some sort of gesture on her part would appropriate.


What do you all think?

ETA: Just to be crystal clear - this vendor is NOT Pattye! (Sorry Pattye, to even mention your name in a post on this subject, but I didn't want anyone to think it was you even for a second!).

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Periwinklegirl, that's very sad situation. I have drooled seller's other pearls very often but not ordered any yet. And propably, after Your experience, never will. Maybe it is true, she/he didn't know. But it doesn't help situation at all...You have dyed pearls in Your hands and they aren't what You were supposed to buy...
 
This is a very odd post. I don't know anyone who sends their pearls in to be polished. I don't ever remember seeing this on any forum I read including pearl guide which is a huge site. One person talked about pealing damaged pearls once though.

This story is a cautionary post because dying golden SS pearls harms not only the buyer, but the sellers reputation. I have to think you purchased your pearls not only for their shape and size, but the color they displayed. If you had known they were dyed that color would you have paid the price you did for them? The darker the golden, the more they are worth, so if these pearls were champagne or even white when they came out of the shell and were dyed this color to trick you into paying a premium for them this is fraud. If your seller knew this and was part of this deception I would expect my money to be refunded.

Because this is a known chronic problem with some bad actors in the Golden SS industry I put off buying them for fear I would not know the real deal from dyed pearls. (not all pearls have divots filled with pools of dye or drill holes you can peer into for the tell tail signs) I read up on them and attempted to find any information so I could tell when I found some I wanted to purchase. When I finally did, I contacted the seller and asked if their goldens were dyed. That said, I still was worried if I was getting the real deal. Many years later when I went to visit PP I saw their stock which was much darker golden than my pearls. Jeremy knows his source and doesn't buy dyed goldens. I was comfortable spending the money for them since I knew I was getting the real deal when I bought my necklace and earrings.

I did look at the post about your birthday pearls and went to your sellers esty site. She has more of these pearls for sale today.
 
periwinklegirl - This is so sad and you have every right to be angry. We all want the best pearls for our money and to be deceived like this is just wrong. I think she should issue you a refund and then try and resolve it with her vendor.
 
I was talking to 4ranchgirl on her way to work today about this thread. We think you should send this thread to your seller. These boards can make or break sellers. She should agree to buy back the strand. Right now 80 people have read this thread which is out on the open internet, if the members here did like I did and looked her up on her esty site, we all take mental notes how you were treated by her and what she chose to sell you. She has to option to make this a winning situation for both of you. Let us know what she says.
 
You should return them for a full refund including original shipping.

If she is honest, she will refund you without quibbling since what she sold you was misrepresented (even if not deliberately.)
I gather this was TheMerryBead? I'm sure we are all interested in seeing that the situation is resolved properly.
 
A good reputation in business is hard won and all too easily lost while a bad reputation spreads like fire.
That being so I don't really like the idea of a buyer threatening a seller with publicity without any right of reply or response to criticism. For all I know the pearls are fine and your jeweller with their buffing has damaged perfectly good pearls. Buffing..? with what? tumbling in walnut shell nibs is accepted to polish up pearls but I've never heard of buffing them.
I would be very dubious about a no refunds policy.
 
What do I think? I tend to trust people so I'll go with the vendor's statement that he/she was unaware these pearls were dyed. But the vendor should also know their suppliers and product, which was misrepresented as natural color. I'm not into dyed pearls so this would be a return dispute for me. But you're not looking to return them so I'm not sure what remedy you'd like. Would you like for vendor to adjust their listings?

Btw, I never heard of buffing by jeweler? Isn't buffing when the pearls are tumbled with other objects by producers before hitting the market?
 
You had me cringing at your jeweler saying "they would benefit from a very light buffing". I've never heard of such a thing. We are so careful so that nothing scratches the delicate nacre of our beloved pearls. Light buffing...?!
 
It seems odd that a buffing would remove so much nacre that the dye would be removed. Normally dye soaks right in deep.

What exactly did your jeweller do? I've never heard of any jeweller buffing pearls post purchase. maeshori before retail in a pearl factory or maybe at a wholesalers or even at a retailers but not after that.
 
I agree, the suggestion to buff the pearls sounds very strange.
 
Thanks everyone. I haven't had any response yet back from the vendor.
My jeweler (who is a goldsmith), said that not many people know you can polish pearls and that it takes a very light touch to do it safely. She learned how in Hong Kong.
She goes through my newly bought unstrung strands with me and we decide together what to polish and what to leave alone (like my vintage dyed akoyas).
I picked up my Golden South Seas today and they have a much better shine on them now, but are much paler gold.
I brought in some more I bought from the Pearl Society and she showed me (and her assistant) how to tell the dyed pearls from the natural ones.
Yes, I'm disappointed and although I don't want to return to the pearls for a full refund (which I'm sure she will refuse anyway), I thought she might offer me a partial refund since they aren't really the colour I paid for.

NacreLover, thanks for the cautionary note about dyed GSS. I wasn't aware of the issue before.

I'll keep you all posted!
 
I would love to be believe that the seller truly did not know the pearls were dyed; but, from the moment the seller found out the truth IF they were reputable I would expect a couple of things to happen. First, the full cost should have been refunded with an apology for not knowing the pearls were dyed. Second, I would expect their entire stock of golden SS pearls to either be taken off the internet pending further investigation OR a very clear description update noting the pearls have been dyed. Anything less than that would be unacceptable in my eyes. I would not want to vilify a seller if they were truly duped by their supplier. Mistakes can be made by any buisness. I am more concerned with how a buisness handles a mistake rather than the fact that a mistake was made in the first place. The resolution is what is important. If a seller refuses to resolve a complaint or dispute that speaks volumes about what kind if buisness they are running.
 
I too have to weigh in and say that I've never heard of anyone buffing pearls after they have been strung. As Wendy, who is far more knowledgeable than I am on GSS, has pointed out...yes they 'buff' them by tumbling with Walnut shells as part of the early treatment but for a Jeweller to buff them after the fact is news to me.

As for the seller, I can believe she had no idea that they were dyed. Just because she sells pearls doesn't mean she knows anything about them. And on PG there is a recent thread on Dyed GSS which is worth reading.

That said, now that she does know, I think the seller should accept them back and do a full refund. Even though her supplier might not have said they were dyed and even if she can't recognize dyed GSS ... she HAS to have known that any deep gold SS pearls cost a FRIKKEN FORTUNE and there is NO WAY that she could have bought GSS in that shade to sell at that price without knowing something is not quite right. :evil: (Wendy..correct me if I'm wrong ! I don't buy em..but I've looked at em wholesale)

Lastly...someone mentioned a vendor name..if that isn't the person who sold them then it should be cleared up. :)
 
While I'm not questioning your jeweller, you might like to reflect that it seem odd that among all of us - including sellers - none of us has ever heard of buffing of pearls post retail sale.
If she is simply doing a maeshori process on them, so what, it will have been done already, and I'll say again, no buffing or polishing should change the colour of any dyed pearl since the colour goes deep into the nacre. It is not like a coat of nail polish.
 
On a broader note, this whole thread does point up the advantages of dealing with pearl sellers who go in person to the whilesalers to buy their stock.
As an anecdote, my favourite tahitian and SS wholesaler showed me some dyed SS when I was last there (with Katbran) and apologised for them but said that some buyers wanted them. They were of course fairly cheap and he sucked his teeth like a plumber contemplating a really nasty blocked drain. relieved when I firmly rejected even the idea of dyed.
The thing is that you won't pay more for buying from the buyers in person because we can negotiate the best deals for the best pearls.
 
katbran|1398321035|3659018 said:
...
Lastly...someone mentioned a vendor name..if that isn't the person who sold them then it should be cleared up. :)
Click to expand...

The OP named the vendor on her "Birthday Pearls!" thread. I posted it to save us all time looking it up.
 
Pearlescence,
Just to clear up this business of buffing pearls. I'm not taking her strings of pearls that I bought retail in a B&M store. I take her unstrung strands, usually bought off ebay (often from China), or in this case Etsy, and they haven't yet been polished.
All the pearls I have bought from reputable vendors (PP, POJ, TPO, Pearl Society, Pattye, etc), don't need it as they've already had it done.

Yes, this vendor is TheMerryBead on Etsy. And most of what I have bought from her has been somewhat of a disappointment.
She take pictures that are slightly out of focus (and blur the quality of what you're buying). And then therre's the no refund policy.
I will not be buying from her again.

Pattye - sorry, I realized that I never answered you. The buffing doesn't remove all the dye, but it certainly took off the outer layer. The pearls are much lighter gold now but you can still see the dye in the drill holes and of course it's darker in the pits and on some of the flaws in the nacre.
 
OP - to answer your question, frankly I would take it as a lesson learned.

Personally I do not buy from vendors with "no return" policies as in my own view I do not consider them reputable.

At the bottom of her Policies page, the vendor does post a disclaimer:

"Gemstone Disclaimer:
I provide a description in each listing that comes directly from my suppliers. My listings reflect the exact information I am given when I purchase these beads. If you have any questions, please convo me prior to completing your transaction."

The above policy also raises red flags to me as a purchaser, especially combined with a "no return" policy.

And unless your jeweler (the one who "buffed" the pearls) is an industry-recognized expert on pearls (which I think is not the case here), me personally I doubt I would contact TheMerryBead to say you now think the GSS are dyed - at this point, all you have is one more person's opinion.

Particularly with gemstones/pearls, I believe the adage "you get what you pay for" (unless you are buying preloved/secondhand and have done your homework) - TheMerryBead's pricing on GSS is way out of whack with industry standards which is readily apparent with a basic comparison to any reputable dealer.

I am sorry you are now disappointed with your purchase, but along the way you ignored more than one red flag so hopefully your purchases in the future will be more informed and/or at least protected by return policies. (However, most return policies do not extend beyond 14 days and most will not accept return of items that have been altered, so even had your jeweler buffed the pearls while in a return period, I don't think a vendor would have accepted the return unless the item description clearly stated untreated/unenhanced.)
 
Even unfinished loose pearls should not need polishing, buffing or maeshori. That happens in the factories or at latest at the wholesalers.
You still haven't said what your jeweller is doing to these pearls.
 
Pearlescence, I'm telling you everything I know. She has a buffing wheel and she gives the pearls a very light polish. She says that nature doesn't quite finish the job and that most pearls are polished (but as you say, usually at the factory or wholesaler level). I didn't actually watch her do it.
 
I know of no-one else in the pearl industry who takes a buffing wheel mop to a pearl. No-one. At any stage.
 
pearlsngems said:
katbran|1398321035|3659018 said:
...
Lastly...someone mentioned a vendor name..if that isn't the person who sold them then it should be cleared up. :)
Click to expand...

The OP named the vendor on her "Birthday Pearls!" thread. I posted it to save us all time looking it up.
Click to expand...

No problem, I hadn't seen or had forgotten about the other thread so wasn't clear how the name had arisen. ;)

And again, I'm with Wendy and the others on this one, buffing with a wheel to fiddle and enhance the surface seems odd, but if they are just for your and you're not reselling them I guess it's up to you whether or not it's worth the money to have it done. Bit like dye isn't it...trying to improve the appearance of a lesser quality product. No harm as long as it's disclosed but then that's the issue isn't it.
 
FYI - she only charges $5 per strand to do it. And the pearls look better.

I'm noticing that a lot of you are more focused on the buffing than the fact that the pearls were dyed and sold undisclosed. The buffing is a side issue to me. I made the mistake of thinking that you would be sympathetic to my situation. Clearly I was wrong and some of you have been quite harsh, which I think is unwarranted.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to share information on our pearl purchases (and share our joy).

Still no response from the vendor.
 
periwinklegirl -- I can only speak for myself. I certainly don't want to come across as harsh and do love this forum and our sharing of pearl pleasures and the occasional disappointments.

I am one of the people who just stopped dead in my tracks at the idea of having one's pearls "polished" post retail sale. But let's not beat a dead horse...

I do hope the vendor responds to you.

And thank you for making us even more aware of the practices of some vendors. You have helped us all by sharing your experience.
 
periwinklegirl|1398347587|3659102 said:
Pearlescence,
Just to clear up this business of buffing pearls. I'm not taking her strings of pearls that I bought retail in a B&M store. I take her unstrung strands, usually bought off ebay (often from China), or in this case Etsy, and they haven't yet been polished.
All the pearls I have bought from reputable vendors (PP, POJ, TPO, Pearl Society, Pattye, etc), don't need it as they've already had it done.

Yes, this vendor is TheMerryBead on Etsy. And most of what I have bought from her has been somewhat of a disappointment.
She take pictures that are slightly out of focus (and blur the quality of what you're buying). And then therre's the no refund policy.
I will not be buying from her again.

Pattye - sorry, I realized that I never answered you. The buffing doesn't remove all the dye, but it certainly took off the outer layer. The pearls are much lighter gold now but you can still see the dye in the drill holes and of course it's darker in the pits and on some of the flaws in the nacre.
Click to expand...


May I ask you a question Periwinklegirl? How do you know who polished their pearls and who didn't? Your jewelers handiwork took off enough of the nacre to change the color and now you can see a difference in color in the drill hole, pits and flaws. Now I realize you chose to walk in their door with more than one strand of pearls to have this service performed but, do you put any of the blame of this fiaco on the trusted goldsmith "expert" who learned how to do this polishing technique in Hong Kong? Have you considered the pearls you purchased from PP,POJ, TPO, SP Pattye etc were higher quality pearls that did not need polishing right out of the shell?
None of the ladies here on this thread have had this service done or have heard of it. Jewelers polishing wheels usually are used for metal polishing and the jeweler applies rouge or other stick polishing compound to the wheel to polish metal. Also,the item being polished gets very hot from friction. None of this sounds like a sound practice with pearls. TMB seems to also be getting a pass from you for either being ignorant of any enhancements done to the merchandise they sell or not accepting returns , so buyer beware. This thread will live on this forum and the internet as a educational tool for pearl buyers. I have to wonder why you started this thread in the first place?
 
I did respond early on with some generalised thoughts and some specifics about selecting sellers.
With pearls, as with so many things in life, you most assuredly get what you pay for. I've seen it mentioned that you paid $400 for a full strand of deep gold south seas. Now that is a fraction of what I would pay wholesale.
I'm still not totally convinced that the pearls are dyed. A light polish would not remove nacre and so therefore how would it remove dye. The dye soaks in to the nacre to quite a depth - as I said, it isn't painted on like nail polish. An abrasion serious enough to remove dye would remove layers of nacre. I simply don't see how this buffing can remove dye.
It's nonsense to say that nature doesn't quite finish the job so pearls have to be polished. Maeshori with walnut shells yes. Polishing mop ..NO
Just try giving those pearls a really good wash in case the colour change is due to polish compound residue
 
periwinklegirl|1398434476|3659816 said:
FYI - she only charges $5 per strand to do it. And the pearls look better.

I'm noticing that a lot of you are more focused on the buffing than the fact that the pearls were dyed and sold undisclosed. The buffing is a side issue to me. I made the mistake of thinking that you would be sympathetic to my situation. Clearly I was wrong and some of you have been quite harsh, which I think is unwarranted.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to share information on our pearl purchases (and share our joy).

Still no response from the vendor.
Click to expand...

OP - the title of your thread is "What would you do?" and in your opening post you specifically state: "I would like to call upon your advice and wisdom. Here's my story, I want to know what you you think I should do." As requested, you have received opinions and advice and wisdom. Had you worded your title differently and only asked for sympathy in your opening post, you probably would have received it.
 
Periwinklegirl,

What an unfortunate situation; so sorry this happened to you.

Your experience reinforces what we already know; pearl vendors and sellers far too often are not current with what is happening in the pearl world.

Referring to Elizabeth Strack's PEARLS for info regarding treatments: page 649-650. I've been aware of the walnut shell polishing for some time. "Buffing" would seem to equate to polishing in the following statement:

Polishing
"After processing, the pearl factories usually polish the pearls in a drum by adding stripes (strips) of cork or tiny pieces of walnut shell or of eucalyptus wood, bee's wax or paraffin wax may also be used. Polishing takes two to three hours with 20 to 40 rotations per minute. The final polishing stage uses diamond, gold or platinum dust, thus enhancing the lustre of the pearls. Larger pearls are sometimes even polished on felt wheels using a mild polishing agent."

"There are no fixed boundaries between what is necessary and tolerable (for instance cleaning and polishing the pearls after harvesting) and what is deception. Also, not all methods used can afterwards be recognized."
 
As far back as 1998, Strack also writes, American pearl dealer Salvador Assael spoke openly in an article for National Jeweler Magazine about nondisclosure of artificially dyed golden South Sea Pearls. Although I don't deal in GSS, I suspect some are poorly dyed, with traces on the surface, perhaps visible with a loupe, others dyed with a different process that cannot be detected without lab identification.
 
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