What would you do?

[Cehrabehra]

My best friend and I have had our struggles the past couple years. We''ve been friends since freshman year of HS and after school our paths wildly diverged. I got married and had children, she pursued her phd and is wildly successful as a psychologist in SF. For the most part our differences were irrelevant, but lately she has become more and more self-centered as she can no longer deny her biological clock and the panic and anxiety have risen to the surface.

That''s the back story.

Now she finds herself falling in love with someone with terminal cancer. She is so attracted to this man that she can''t NOT continue walking the path she''s on, and yet she knows she is 40 and doesn''t have time to waste finding a partner she can spend longer than the next year with and have a family with. She''s always been philosophical and had this happened 10 years ago or 10 years from now she would have been a willing participant in whatever she could share with this man and take the good and learn from the bad. The timing on this is horrible for her. She doesn''t want to abandon him when he is at such a low point, and yet she doesn''t want it to progress because - well all of the obvious reasons. It is still early in the relationship and there are no commitments so for her to walk away wouldn''t be unreasonable, but like I said, she''s so drawn to him... sometimes I wonder if she''s drawn to people who are in some way either temporary or unattainable in an avoidance of long term compromise.

Mostly I just listen, there''s no right or wrong answer here - but I was wondering what other people would do in those shoes...

 

[decodelighted]

I don''t think its clear if you are asking what we''d do in HER shoes or in YOUR shoes.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/30/2010 1:18:47 AM
Author: decodelighted
I don''t think its clear if you are asking what we''d do in HER shoes or in YOUR shoes.

oh I''m sorry - in hers... in her shoes... though if you have advice for me I''m open I figure all I can really do is encourage her to be honest with herself and support her choices.

 

[decodelighted]

I''d like to think that I''d "be there" for my new friend but continue to see other people. I imagine if he''s a reasonable man that he''d understand that decision and want her to continue to pursue her goal of marriage + natural children (if that is indeed her goal).

If she chooses to ONLY see him in an exclusive romantic relationship that has recently begun, knowing the whole time of his terminal illness -- then I would concur with your conclusion that she''s just not ready, willing or able to have a *long term* relationship right now. You can''t rush being ready. However, biology doesn''t always wait for us to get our acts together.

Choosing NOT to be in a long term relationship is also a valid life choice. Maybe her ambivalence is based on her truly not wanting that for herself. She might feel pressure to want that and/or children. I''d hope her own therapist is working with her on these matters. Aren''t all psychiatrists required to participate themselves?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/30/2010 1:29:31 AM
Author: decodelighted
I''d like to think that I''d ''be there'' for my new friend but continue to see other people. I imagine if he''s a reasonable man that he''d understand that decision and want her to continue to pursue her goal of marriage + natural children (if that is indeed her goal).


If she chooses to ONLY see him in an exclusive romantic relationship that has recently begun, knowing the whole time of his terminal illness -- then I would concur with your conclusion that she''s just not ready, willing or able to have a *long term* relationship right now. You can''t rush being ready. However, biology doesn''t always wait for us to get our acts together.


Choosing NOT to be in a long term relationship is also a valid life choice. Maybe her ambivalence is based on her truly not wanting that for herself. She might feel pressure to want that and/or children. I''d hope her own therapist is working with her on these matters. Aren''t all psychiatrists required to participate themselves?

Required? I don''t think she''s required. She mostly turns to me. She does have a therapist she sees occasionally. I think she does feel pressure and has for years and years about having children. she''s pretty much always been ready for marriage (at least after grad school) but hasn''t found the one. I think all of the pressure she felt to have children these years is complicating her feelings about actually WANTing children. It''s a really complicated mix of genuinely wanting them, not wanting them yet, wanting a partner first, and feeling like she''s running out of time mixed with years of resenting societal pressure to have children - even an unconscious pressure from me. I''ve never thought she should have them, but by me having them there''s just an unspoken pressure even if it''s not from me per se. I can''t talk about all of the experiences and feelings of having children without it implicating she''s missing out even if it''s irrelevant to me. She does say she wants them... she just doesn''t want them until she''s in a solid relationship. With this guy it seems that the more she finds out how dire his prognosis is, the more she''s certain he''s the one.

 

[Hera]

I think that sometimes a person''s behavior speaks more than what they say. I know too many people who SAY they want one thing and yet do the exact opposite. Your friend SAYS she wants children but has chosen the exact opposite scenario.
She has to work out her own priorities on this one. Obviously, having a child isn''t the most important thing or she would. You can remind her of her time line, but she will choose what she really wants to do so I would just be supportive of any decision she makes. She''s a Psychologist so I hope she can see how this is working and work through any issues that are standing in the way of her (supposed) goals.

 

[iota15]

Or, she may want children too much. The prospect of not being able to have them scares the living daylights out of her, especially since it''s theoretically within her control to have children now (go with Mr. Okay after all these years, sperm bank, the current beau, etc.) If she ends up with no children in the end, she''s afraid she''ll have no one to blame but herself.

The current partner however, gives her a mental way out. The more dire his condition, the more she simply cannot be without him. He provides the perfect excuse for her - the perfect love that could never be, and she could never be without. She can now blame, in part, "the uncontrollable situation" and not her, if she ends up without children.... that''s if she chooses this route.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Wow - those last two comments were really interesting to me! I''ve been friends with her so long... on the one hand I know her probably better than anyone on the planet - sometimes better than she knows herself, and on the other hand no one knows her better than she knows herself... sometimes I wonder if she''s lying to herself and that worries me. If I ever had any sort of attachment to her having children or not having children it''s long gone. I don''t think I really ever did beyond my own single minded mommyness that carried unwitting implications in her experience even if it wasn''t intentional. But now I''m positive I am completely ambivalent to whether she has children or not, I more worry about her not being honest with herself and having them if she doesn''t or denying them if she does. She has long chosen slightly inappropriate partners. Not vastly inappropriate... just not where she is or wanting what she wants long term. There are guys falling at her feet and she rejects them all for ridiculous reasons (though I stopped dating guys back in the day for ridiculous reasons so I get that) and seems to be attracted to the ones who are not where she is. I know the single most important factor in a functional relationship is just BEING in the same place at the same time and both being committed to work together from there.

I don''t want to sound harsh or skeptical - I was just thinking of the basic "could you start a relationship with someone who is dying" question and wondering if I could or what others thought. On the one hand I feel for the guy and if she genuinely cares it seems like why NOT give him the best last year of his life or whatnot... but on the other hand that''s a huge emotional weight to take on when you are not yet committed to do so.

 

[zhuzhu]

It sounds like you care more about your friend than you let on. Try to be there for her all you can, but it is she who ultimately has to live with her decision. I wouldn''t guide her one way or the other, and I wouldn''t try too hard to imagine how it feels in her shoes either because - we can''t.

 

[Lula]

Date: 4/30/2010 2:21:14 AM
Author: heraanderson
I think that sometimes a person's behavior speaks more than what they say. I know too many people who SAY they want one thing and yet do the exact opposite. Your friend SAYS she wants children but has chosen the exact opposite scenario.

She has to work out her own priorities on this one. Obviously, having a child isn't the most important thing or she would. You can remind her of her time line, but she will choose what she really wants to do so I would just be supportive of any decision she makes. She's a Psychologist so I hope she can see how this is working and work through any issues that are standing in the way of her (supposed) goals.

Ditto. Well said.

 

[joflier]

I think all of us could go round and round about this and psychoanalyze it to death. But it could just be as simple as the fact that we don''t get to pick and choose who we fall in love with.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I don''t have any advice - just wanted to say that I feel badly that your friend seems uncertain about what she wants from life in the next few years. The ''kids decision'' is a really intense one and I can appreciate her ambivalence as I have some myself. I hope she figures it out and does what''s best for her and what she really wants.

 

[Erin]

Date: 4/30/2010 2:40:24 AM
Author: iota15

He provides the perfect excuse for her - the perfect love that could never be, and she could never be without. She can now blame, in part, ''the uncontrollable situation'' and not her, if she ends up without children.... that''s if she chooses this route.

I would start THIS topic with her. I think this is very insightful iota.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/30/2010 9:34:30 AM
Author: Maevie
I don''t have any advice - just wanted to say that I feel badly that your friend seems uncertain about what she wants from life in the next few years. The ''kids decision'' is a really intense one and I can appreciate her ambivalence as I have some myself. I hope she figures it out and does what''s best for her and what she really wants.

She says she has always wanted children, but she''s never wanted them ''now'' and she still doesn''t want them ''now''. I''m not sure she wants the reality of a child, but I think she feels when she is older she will regret not having had them. She is the youngest of 5 and her siblings and mother are all very close. I know she wants to be a matriarch someday and be surrounded with adult kids and grandkids... I just don''t think she''s ever wanted to be a mommy or parent a child though I think part of it is that she will not even consider it (and it may be too painful to) without a partner. I think if she fell in love and married and had a stable home life with a partner it would be part of her natural progression to venture into parenthood, but without that it is not even remotely appealing to her. She doesn''t want to be a parent just for the sake of it. I think she may be avoiding those serious relationships to avoid having children, but I think her fear that the window of opportunity will close and she will no longer have that option is a major anxiety for her. It''s difficult to really get her to discuss this openly and honestly because I think she has a lot of defense mechanisms up to protect her in addition to the general ambivalence. I am a FIRM believer that people who don''t want children shouldn''t have them - it is in no one''s best interests - so I fully support the childless choice. If she said she just didn''t want them that would be one thing... but saying she wants them and not creating the environment to have them is confusing for me to support. Mostly I think she is just sad and scared she hasn''t found THE life partner for herself, but I''m not sure that entertaining a couple years with an infertile dying man. If he could have children I think she would consider sharing what she could with him and doing the rest on her own... I dunno. I understand that this is HER business and all I can do really is speculate. It''s awkward terrain for me... she and I have been SO close for so many years and shared absolutely everything there is to share and I know her so well but as she is going further down this road everything is very unclear to me. it isn''t cut and dry like I want this or I don''t want that, and there are so many uncontrollable obstacles and difficult emotions, as well as mental games and coping mechanisms at work here - it''s a minefield. She wants, needs me here for her and this stuff isn''t easy. Complicating it further is my own life is overwhelming in its own ways right now, I''m on the other side of the world from her.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Not to be harsh but it is none of your business. Sounds like you have two issues here. One is you may not like the person she has become. People change as do friendships. Make sure you are friends with her b/c you LIKE her not b/c of history or loyalty. You need to decide if this friendship is healthy for you. Second is your belief you think you know what is right for her. Why do you think she is "wasting time" if she is in love? Is it an ideal situation, of course not, but who are you to say she is making a mistake? All you can do as a friend is listen and support her decisions.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

If i was in your friends shoes i would choose to stay with the man i loved and stay with him for the time he has left. Kids would be important, but not of the highest priority. I couldn''t walk away from a man that i loved just to fulfill the chance of having a child that i wanted in theory, but had not had sooner for whatever reasons.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/1/2010 9:12:54 AM
Author: hawaiianorangetree
If i was in your friends shoes i would choose to stay with the man i loved and stay with him for the time he has left. Kids would be important, but not of the highest priority. I couldn''t walk away from a man that i loved just to fulfill the chance of having a child that i wanted in theory, but had not had sooner for whatever reasons.

She''s not in love with him - they''ve not been intimate, she''s only known him a few weeks. She is starting to feel more for him and allowing herself to fall in love. i wouldn''t advocate for abandoning someone you''re in a relationship with when they''re sick... but he was terminal before she met him and she knew it right away before they''d even had a first date.

Tacori - I agree with you and you say some things I''m not maybe ready to address in my relationship with her, some things I''ve been thinking about the past couple years... I almost broke things off with her last year but she was devistated and accused me of such betrayal... but that''s another story. As for wasting her time, its her word not mine. We came up with this theory in our early 20''s that ALL of the maybe guys ended up being no guys and that even sometimes the yes guys became no guys but that you shouldn''t waste your time on no guys or maybe guys... we were young when we thought this up! However it''s pretty true, generally. She knows this guy cannot be her life partner, she is not yet in a deep relationship with him, but she is compelled to walk toward him. I''m getting a lot of guilt from her that I don''t reach out to her enough and that she''s too fragile to call me. It''s all crap I outgrew years ago and I''m in freaking china - what can I do?? It''s pretty clear to me that you''re right that it''s none of my business but she relies on me for more than just an ear... I''ve been her mentor in ways for more than half her life. I must really suck though - I think she needs to stand on her own!