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What would you do? Send to GIA or keep AGS assessment

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toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Long story short, I sent my diamond to Brianthecutter.com to get it re-cut. The original specs are:
1.41 (dia 7.35) E VVS1 strong blue fluorescence, out of round and culet was off center. My original GIA certificate with issued sometime in 1995. (Before shots)



I am completely happy with the re-cut, it is now a round diamond. However, the issue that I am having is that when AGS graded the diamond it came back as:
1.29 (dia 7.08) F VVS2.
My diamond had dropped 1 color and clarity grade. Brian to his credit did mention to me that this could happen either way, too bad this didn''t work in my favor say to a D, IF. He included a copy of the original GIA certificate along with the diamond. Brian contacted AGS twice on my behalf to see if they would change their grading. They didn''t budge, but did agree that the stone is much brighter and more beautiful than it was prior to the recut. I have to give them credit for sticking to their guns, imagine a vendor calling up each time they didn''t like the grade that was given them and asking it to get changed.


What would you do? Have the stone sent to GIA and hope that the diamond maintains its original color and clarity since they were the ones that initially graded the diamond?
If I go the GIA route I will be out $100 shipping and $67 for the AGS assessment.

Accept AGS'' grading and have them issue the certification with the F VVS2 grade? This would lower the value of my diamond. I had originally paid for the E VVS1 stone.

Don''t certify and just get a professional appraisal for insurance purposes?

Brian and Lesley have been nothing but patient and understanding about my predicament but I would like to move forward with the process and finally get my stone back after a long absence.

Thanks!

before911.JPG
 

Moh 10

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,004
I''d just leave it alone.

Perhaps you can say it is a GIA E VVS1 and it is also an AGS F VVS2.
Heck, you may be also holding an EGL Israel D IF.

This highlights what I consider to be a huge scandal.
Imagine if your diamond came back from three labs with very different carat weight.


Color and clarity "changing" is just as much of a scandal.

Color and clarity should be as standardized as weight measurements.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,954
Date: 3/18/2009 2:56:14 PM
Author:toleong

Accept AGS'' grading and have them issue the certification with the F VVS2 grade? This would lower the value of my diamond. I had originally paid for the E VVS1 stone.

Don''t certify and just get a professional appraisal for insurance purposes?
Yes, I think, to both.

The valuation is a paper one. At such a time that you might like to DO something with the diamond, involving some sort of exchange, this could be reviewed (though I doubt to a different judgement).
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Thanks for all your replies.

Moh 10 - My husband who is an engineer, believe that color and clarity should be standardized as well.

Regular Guy - Sound advice, I don''t want to spend too money for a piece of paper.

Neil - Brian suggested that I send it to GIA since they had originally graded the stone. But the decision is up to me.
 

about2begin

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
121
Wouldn''t it be a bit disturbing if someone could call AGS and persuade them to change their grading? Isn''t independence a huge plus with AGS/GIA compared to other labs?
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
Will you feel better if the GIA also says F VVS2? Because that will take a little time and a little money, and that might be the result. But if you''ll feel better "knowing" that the recutting really changed the stone and that GIA and AGS agree, then do it. Best case scenario, GIA grading is higher. Most probably scenario, GIA is the same. Worst case scenario, GIA grades it even lower (gasp!). If they differ, then I guess you can pick which one to "believe."

Plus side of lower grades is that you''ll pay less of an insurance premium.
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,859
Hello Toleong,

I just read your post, and I feel and understand your pain. Also, for Brian and Lesley, this must be frustrating.

For us, cutters, it is something that happens regularly, but we have the advantage that some of these negative ''surprises'' are offset by positive ones, and that the loss of the negatives is spread out over more stones.

In your case, you have to swallow an apparent reduction in value (because of color/clarity) in one stone. That is a bummer.

Brian is the innocent party in this, but I am sure that he is just as frustrated about the situation as you are. For sure, his re-cutting did not decrease the color nor the clarity.

What we have here, is a simple difference in opinion between labs. Of course, between 1995 and now, GIA''s opinion on this stone might have also changed. But if you can convince GIA that this is a re-cut of that original stone, chances are very high that they will grade it the same as before.

This difference of opinion is also often frustrating for us, since we often see stones graded by one lab being sold apparently cheaper while they are actually more expensive because another lab would have given it a lower grade.

Anyway, if you feel better with a higher GIA-grade, I would suggest going that route. Be aware however that their grading probably takes more time.

Live long,
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
Your diamond is beautiful. Its specifications are extraordinary.

Why not just do what you have to do to satisfy the insurance company and leave it at that?

That''s the option I would choose.
 

Modified Brilliant

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,481
As long as human beings are involved in the diamond grading process...standardization
will never occur. Surveys have been done; inconsistencies will always exist.
Just my 0.02 cents.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Given the huge difference in value I would send it off to gia to make sure you can get the proper level of insurance.
running some searches there is a potential $5000 difference... sheesh
That makes it a no-brainer to send it off to GIA.
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Thanks for chiming in phoenixgirl and Paul-Antwerp!

phoenixgirl - lower insurance premiums are always a plus.


Paul-Antwerp - You''re right Brian and Lesley are definitely not at fault. In fact Brian had mentioned that this might be a possibility with the labs grading the diamond at a lower grade and clarity. Right now my lost is just a paper loss, but it is still disconcerting none the less. Do you happen to know approximately how much value I have lost by dropping down 1 color/clarity grade? I used the Pricescope diamond search and price feature but the values between similar stones can vary as much as a couple of thousands of dollars.

I am curious to find out that if the stone was sent to GIA with the original grading report, they would come back with the same grading. On the other hand, I might be out the additional money just to find out that now they agree with AGS'' assessment. That money could go towards my new setting or diamond upgrade.

Is this why some vendors will take a stone and have it graded by multiple labs and then go with the lab that provided them the most favorable report?


Thanks!
Toleong
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Karl,

We must have been looking at the diamond price comparison results at the same time. I''m just a little slower responding.
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Here are some after shots of the diamond after the extreme make over.
(Sorry if there is extra white space after the picture, I don''t know how to crop that out)

Presentation19.jpg
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
way kewl
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
Update: I have decided to send the stone to GIA. For a few extra bucks it will be worth it for me to have my stone be "mind clean" to me again. (quoting Dancing Fire)

On the plus side due to my diamond trauma, DH has agreed to move my diamond upgrade to the next year or two.


Toleong
 

Diamond*Dana

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
7,222
I hope that the GIA grading comes back to your satisfaction!
Beautiful diamond
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
sounds like a plan :}
 

toleong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
54
GIA assessment:

1.28
E VVS1

Final cut EX
Polish EX
Symmetry VG

Depth 60.1
Table 57
Crown (deg) 34
pavilion (deg) 40.8


I''m so happy that the GIA assessment came back and matched my original cert. $110 (AGS findings and shipping cost to GIA) is not a lot to pay for my peace of mind. Now, I can''t wait to get my diamond back to see the magic Brian performed on my stone.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,620
Glad that you got back to the point at which you started. Does this then say that AGS is stricter with their color/clarity grading than GIA?
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
3,156
Date: 4/7/2009 11:17:43 AM
Author: MissGotRocks
Glad that you got back to the point at which you started. Does this then say that AGS is stricter with their color/clarity grading than GIA?
Nah, I don''t think 1 (or 2 or even 3) example is enough. I''d bet that there are times when GIA is stricker than AGS too.

They''re pretty much on par with eachother as far as color and clarity grading goes.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Wonderful, I''m glad you had a great outcome!! I just wanted to comment that your re-cut is incredible, woohoo!
 
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