What will come of these protests that have evolved into riots?

[nala]

@the_mother_thing May I offer an unsolicited suggestion?

Don't bother in this thread.

Some posters are just rabid. They refuse to accept any perspectives that differ from their own as valid, and they’re convinced that everything can be boiled down to a simplistic meme or analogy or comparison, and if you’re not “on their side” in every way, well, you’re going to be attacked for “missing the point” and being “against Blacks”.

You can’t reason with rabid. FWIW I’ve had a few PSers who haven’t participated in this thread email me privately to express the same. Fortunately there were a number of resources shared early in this thread that I personally found helpful and enlightening, and that don’t require wading through six pages to find.

Edit - I’m sure that in my ignorance I’ve committed sixteen microaggressions in this post and I’ll have my transgressions shoved down my throat shortly.

I’m sorry that this thread has made you and others feel silenced bc you have differing views. It was not the intent. I agree that the argument is not as simple as some characterize it to be because I myself have been struggling with this argument. One hour I feel empathy and another hour I feel anger. Being angry at the looting does not mean that I don’t care about BLM. It just means that I fear for the safety of others and for their well-being. I think that when people try to shut down others, I become really curious as to why. I want to try to see things the way they do—just in case I am missing something. I hope those who emailed you can feel free to participate in this thread.

 

[Dancing Fire]

People > Property

Destroying people's properties = killing people's liveihood.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@yssie Thank you; you are 100% right. That also became very clear when - as usual - some choose to start politicizing this issue. Oddly, I didn’t see mention of politics in the meme directing sentence structure.

St. Paul’s mayor - a black democrat - responded to a question about ‘blame’ yesterday, which many needed to hear. He noted the issues surrounding police brutality & racism did not start with Floyd’s murder or with the current administration. He reminded (as we well know) they’ve also happened multiple times in the last decade.

There is LOTS of blame that can be handed out ‘politically’ if people choose to play that game; I won’t. In case anyone forgot, Floyd’s last words were “I can’t breathe”; not “Orange man bad”. And that’s the last I will say about the matter on here.

Good luck with the remainder of the discussion @nala

 

[nala]

Property destruction is going to happen during revolts. It is one of the consequential results when we perpetuate corrupt systems. The energy spent debating whether life or property is more important would be better spent (imo) talking about and taking action to assist in eliminating the issues that are the cause of the revolts.

We have the expectation that as an allegedly civilized species, no one should ever reach a breaking point that leads to an unsavory physical manifestation of anger, frustration, grief and that those who do so are flawed and especially when they are held to an ever moving standard. We hold others to an expectation of perfection -- violence is never the answer; all you need is love; no one should ever... -- that we have yet to achieve but are held accountable for against the odds of our human nature. It is noble to attempt to always always be kind, patient, nonviolent, accepting and to always turn the other cheek. It is ignoble to disregard that there are elements to our human nature that prevent us from perfection. Imperfection is not failure.

As long as there is one a$$hole in the bunch....

Now this is insight!

 

[telephone89]

@yssie Im pretty disappointed honestly. I read your story, responded with my own, and thought I’d politely (uncharacteristically so ) explained why all lives matter is detrimental, and you want to say I’m ‘shoving it down your throat’? You said you’d look into it, did you? I’ve posted a ton of articles, links, screen shots etc trying to explain these things- does anyone read them?

it actually choked me up when Queenie responded to my post about racist coded language, took the time to read the article I posted and then acknowledged it. No one is perfect, not even me, but I’m taking the time to read and educate myself on the issue.

Unfortunately for everyone making the issue about property damage it takes away from the actual message - POC being unfairly targeted. You can hate property damage and looting, but when that’s all you (general) focus on, it gets us nowhere. Hence why I try to bring the attention back to the real issue.

if you want to call me names like ‘rabid’ then go ahead. But I won’t apologize for standing up for an actual atrocity - POC murdered by cops.

 

[nala]

@telephone89 can you concede that those of us who are discussing the riots are doing so because we feel immediate concern about the danger some are in? For example, my mom? These riots were in her backyard! So my immediate focus was on them and that did not mean that I forgot about BLM. By discussing the riots, we have discovered that many are being initiated and infiltrated by outside groups who are trying to villianize the movement. If we dared not to discuss the looting, we would not discover that cops, racists organizations, Antifa, etc. are all more Involved than the actual protesters in the violence we are witnessing. So there should be room to discuss these riots because that leads to the truth. And hopefully readers who previously dismissed these riots and blamed them on the usual suspects can now open their eyes to the truth and thereby realize BLM needs their support.

 

[Queenie60]

@the_mother_thing May I offer an unsolicited suggestion?

Don't bother in this thread.

Some posters are just rabid. They refuse to accept any perspectives that differ from their own as valid, and they’re convinced that everything can be boiled down to a simplistic meme or analogy or comparison, and if you’re not “on their side” in every way, well, you’re going to be attacked for “missing the point” and being “against Blacks”.

You can’t reason with rabid. FWIW I’ve had a few PSers who haven’t participated in this thread email me privately to express the same. Fortunately there were a number of resources shared early in this thread that I personally found helpful and enlightening, and that don’t require wading through six pages to find.

Edit - I’m sure that in my ignorance I’ve committed sixteen microaggressions in this post and I’ll have my transgressions shoved down my throat shortly.

I thank you for your bravery - this is why I try to keep my comments on the "generic" side of things.

 

[telephone89]

@nala There is a difference between discussing the protests and riots and tsk tsking BLM for it. There is a difference between talking about looters, instigation and further police violence and saying it invalidates the whole movement. Theres a difference between learning about protest motivations and declaring that theyre just giving the racists what they want.

Many people disparaging the protests and riots are the same people who claim BLM is damaging to everyone else. Some people disparaging the protests and riots actually said muslims should be rounded up and kept in camps. Many people disparaging the protests and riots are extremely quick to get defensive when discussing privilege.

Honestly, I'm just tired. Tired of feeling like I'm the only one who gives a shit. Tired of defending people who PSers are quick to criticize. Tired of hearing the same old garbage parroted back. And when I try to educate? A brush off. An insult. Passive aggressive comments. I will keep fighting for the rights of POC in the US and my home country because it's extremely important to me, but I don't think it will be on PS any more.

 

[yssie]

Honestly, I'm just tired. Tired of feeling like I'm the only one who gives a shit.

You aren't. Any number of people have tried to tell you that.


@nala I apologize - I honestly forgot that the discussion I was responding to was in this thread! My comments were intended for another thread that is currently ongoing. And they are not in any way directed at you - I applaud both you and the PSer who took the initiative to start that other thread for doing so. Both threads have been educational and interesting. I'm not a professional in any capacity relevant to education or evangelism on these topics, so I don't feel that I have the right or the background to demand that others adopt my perspective. As such - I will donate to movements I believe in and keep my thoughts to myself moving forward.

The one other thing I will say - I worked hands-on on pandemic response. I urge people to think about implications of protesting and looting on disease spread, supply chain, manufacturing, transportation, security, prioritization, funding... That storyline is much more complex than discussion thus far here on PS has presumed.

 

[telephone89]

@yssie Really? Youre going to respond to THAT and not my actual post TO you?

Oh, and you want to say you give a shit? Why not repeat some of the garbage you said on the original George Floyd thread? Thank goodness for you it was deleted...

 

[Matata]

It's just clear that my personal views aren't welcome in discussion. And I'm not a professional in any capacity relevant to education or evangelism on these topics, so I don't feel that I have the right or the background to demand that others adopt my perspective.

I don't remember you being the type to be intimidated by those who don't welcome your views. My impression is that you are intelligent, strong, articulate and capable of standing your ground irrespective of whether anyone agrees or disagrees with you. The idea of consensus on issues should not overshadow the relevance and opportunity of disparate points of view. You are correct that you don't have the right to demand others adopt your perspective. No one has the right to do that to another. What we do have is the opportunity to share our perspective and what others do with that opportunity is as varied as the number of people on the planet. When we have the courage to state our convictions, we must find the courage to withstand dissent to those convictions.

Sounds to me like you need a hug and validation as a person. {Hugs} and keep on with your fabulous self.

 

[yssie]

@yssie Really? Youre going to respond to THAT and not my actual post TO you?

Oh, and you want to say you give a shit? Why not repeat some of the garbage you said on the original George Floyd thread? Thank goodness for you it was deleted...

I got no deletion modifications from the moderators, so whatever I said that you took offense to, I deleted myself. I have been editing my own posts like a madwoman to try and make my point without needlessly offending anyone else, so that's very possible. Thank goodness for me!

Please just block me. I'll do you the same favour.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@nala There is a difference between discussing the protests and riots and tsk tsking BLM for it. There is a difference between talking about looters, instigation and further police violence and saying it invalidates the whole movement. Theres a difference between learning about protest motivations and declaring that theyre just giving the racists what they want.

Many people disparaging the protests and riots are the same people who claim BLM is damaging to everyone else. Some people disparaging the protests and riots actually said muslims should be rounded up and kept in camps. Many people disparaging the protests and riots are extremely quick to get defensive when discussing privilege.

Honestly, I'm just tired. Tired of feeling like I'm the only one who gives a shit. Tired of defending people who PSers are quick to criticize. Tired of hearing the same old garbage parroted back. And when I try to educate? A brush off. An insult. Passive aggressive comments. I will keep fighting for the rights of POC in the US and my home country because it's extremely important to me, but I don't think it will be on PS any more.

Same thing happened to me with the mask BS. You cannot educate those who think they are intellectually superior to you....

However, I think you should rethink your goal of trying to educate others or convince them of your POV. You have to know your audience and respond accordingly. No matter how hard you try, you are not going to effect change with your "passion", you will only possibly effect change with your logic. And that is a long, slow painful process. You think this subject is hard to handle and hurtful? Try convincing people not to eat animals, a group of trillions that has long been exploited in ways that no culture on Earth can claim to have ever been victim to. And a group that has NO VOICE whatsoever, except for the few that believe in their rights.

 

[arkieb1]

 

[autumngems]

I thank you for your bravery - this is why I try to keep my comments on the "generic" side of things.

Amen